Game 12: Pistons (2-9) @ Raptors (7-6) - Nov. 13 7:30 PM EST

[Manocad]

Don’t forget, Killian is my guy. A bunch of you can eat up. It makes a world of difference having a confident, competent point guard.

He’s still gonna have some awful games to come. Just remember what you saw tonight and remain patient.

Same with Cade, but most of you know that already.

Exactly why I’m rubbing it in if Hayes continues to grow into his potential. As I’ve posted before, I didn’t even know who he was before the draft but people who know a lot more about scouting basketball players than us deemed him worthy of the #7 pick. Does that mean he’s going to be great? Nope. But it also doesn’t mean he should be disregarded because he’s not doing what someone wants him to be doing after 20-some games. Give the kid a chance.

[FloridaMan78]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

[mattao313]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

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[FloridaMan78]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

You think we’re worse than Houston, Pelicans and Orlando? Have you seen them play? Lol

[Manocad]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

Which is to be expected. If you ever posted anything positive about this team I'd be amazed.

[bstein14]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

You think we’re worse than Houston, Pelicans and Orlando? Have you seen them play? Lol

We should for sure be worse than the Pelicans once they get healthy and Zion is back. That said, the league is much more balanced this season. We could actually win somewhere in the high 20's and finish 3rd worst in the league with only Orlando and Houston having worse records. The best part about that is all of the bottom 3 teams get the same exact lottery odds. The other main threats to potentially finish below us in the bottom 3 are most likely San Antonio, OKC, or Sacramento. Or if some team shuts a player down for the tank or trades away talent for a rebuild like Orlando did last season... Or of course an injury to a main player on a team fighting for the play-in games.

Right now it's actually really hard to say we're going to be better than 14th in the East because the teams that most people thought would be near the bottom with us have performed better than expected. Washington is 1st in the East and Cleveland is much better than expected. It is strange to see the team right ahead of us in the East at 13th is Atlanta who was in the ECF last season and the team in 11th is Milwaukee, the reigning NBA champs. That also makes it feel less likely we will be moving up anytime soon even if we do start winning a bit more.

[johanliebert]

Its interesting Cade basically got the Killian Hayes treatment today. Casey gotta let these guys play free on offense.

Really need a center man it'd help so much Stewart is a fan fav but he's just a good backup.

Corey Joseph needs to be waving towels on the bench permanently.

Man Bey has been a little disappointing so far if he's shot not falling he disappears.

Cade gotta start hitting those 3s as a guy thats not Uber athletic he's gotta be elite at hitting 3.

Killian Hayes finally had a good game and actually kinda looked like a real pg still imo was too hesitant with his scoring but was way better than usual.

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Corey made some big plays on both ends in that 4th. Why do fans hate vets lol you can’t have a rotation of rookies.

[FloridaMan78]

Still think we're a bottom team

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You think we’re worse than Houston, Pelicans and Orlando? Have you seen them play? Lol

We should for sure be worse than the Pelicans once they get healthy and Zion is back. That said, the league is much more balanced this season. We could actually win somewhere in the high 20's and finish 3rd worst in the league with only Orlando and Houston having worse records. The best part about that is all of the bottom 3 teams get the same exact lottery odds. The other main threats to potentially finish below us in the bottom 3 are most likely San Antonio, OKC, or Sacramento. Or if some team shuts a player down for the tank or trades away talent for a rebuild like Orlando did last season... Or of course an injury to a main player on a team fighting for the play-in games.

Right now it's actually really hard to say we're going to be better than 14th in the East because the teams that most people thought would be near the bottom with us have performed better than expected. Washington is 1st in the East and Cleveland is much better than expected. It is strange to see the team right ahead of us in the East at 13th is Atlanta who was in the ECF last season and the team in 11th is Milwaukee, the reigning NBA champs. That also makes it feel less likely we will be moving up anytime soon even if we do start winning a bit more.

I doubt Zion comes back this year. He’s over 300 pounds now and shouldn’t come back until he loses at least 50 pounds. By then the Pelicans will be so far out of playoff contention they’d be really stupid to risk him re injuring it.

I doubt there’s anyway we compete for bottom three in the league.

[Manocad]

Its interesting Cade basically got the Killian Hayes treatment today. Casey gotta let these guys play free on offense.

Really need a center man it'd help so much Stewart is a fan fav but he's just a good backup.

Corey Joseph needs to be waving towels on the bench permanently.

Man Bey has been a little disappointing so far if he's shot not falling he disappears.

Cade gotta start hitting those 3s as a guy thats not Uber athletic he's gotta be elite at hitting 3.

Killian Hayes finally had a good game and actually kinda looked like a real pg still imo was too hesitant with his scoring but was way better than usual.

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

Corey made some big plays on both ends in that 4th. Why do fans hate vets lol you can’t have a rotation of rookies.

A couple of key plays leading to one win don't make up for a lot more idiotic plays over a number of games that lead to losses. If you had watched every Pistons game this year you'd completely understand why Pistons fans are ready to fire Cojo into space, especially with Saben Lee, the 38th pick, tearing up the G-league. The vets are supposed to be helping the rookies/sophomores learn how to play the right way, not be setting a bad example by trying to play hero ball and generally failing miserably at it. To that point, the big plays that Cojo made on offense were when he WASN'T running the offense, i.e. he had been taken out of the primary role he's supposed to be filling.

[440BB]

Corey made some big plays on both ends in that 4th. Why do fans hate vets lol you can’t have a rotation of rookies.

No hate, just frustration. Watching a PG dribble away most of the shot clock as the offense comes to a halt is part of it. That style of play doesn't fit a young developing group and is unwatchable. Another part is knowing that he's blocking a developing PG who should be in the rotation.

Only one rookie in the normal rotation btw.

[Canadafan]

Went to the game last night. Packed house. Was entertaining to see our young guys play well and win

[zeebneeb]

Okay, watching the replay and I'm at 5:25 mark of the second quarter, and I'm seeing it. Everything i had hoped for, I'm seeing it. Cade/Hayes backcourt is a defensive monster. Cade/Hayes backcourt is dynamic offensively. Pass from Hayes to Cade, Cade whips it to Bey, who drives the lane, layup.

That duo is going to terrorize the league for years defensively.

Once they get the proper personel surrounding them, the offense is going to be exciting, and dynamic. Both are still super young, and learning, but 2 years from now?

Tons of promise.

[zeebneeb]

Hayes is a freaking beast defensively. Holy crap that block on dragic.

[zeebneeb]

Yeah, this was Hayes best game. Rebounding(offensive boards as well!),passing, scoring, and beast mode defense.

Damn he looked good this game. Wow.

[mattao313]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

You think we’re worse than Houston, Pelicans and Orlando? Have you seen them play? Lol

Have you watched the Pistons lol they suck just as bad . We got the worst differential in the league

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[bstein14]

Yeah, this was Hayes best game. Rebounding(offensive boards as well!),passing, scoring, and beast mode defense.

Damn he looked good this game. Wow.

You can see a lot of the "hustle" stats here and Killian in 10th in the league in deflections per 36 minutes. Something he should only get better at as time goes on.

Also nice to see Josh Jackson as one of the best in the league at recovering loose balls (he's always out there diving for them) and Beef Stew is near the top of the league on 2 point shots contested.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle-leaders/

[mattao313]

It’s amazing how much better the offense looks when they hit the open threes. Bey, Hayes and Frank lit it up the first half and everything opened up. Stewart was able to get going because the lane wasn’t clogged.

Grants gonna get his and Cade can close out and we are gonna win some games. If Bey, Hayes, Frank hit their shots we’ll have a chance to win those games. We’re not a bottom three team, we’re better than The Pelicans, Houston, and Orlando. Are we better than the bottom middle teams like the Pacers, Spurs and the Kings?

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

Which is to be expected. If you ever posted anything positive about this team I'd be amazed.

I do im just not all sunshine and rainbows like other guys here.

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[bstein14]

Still think we're a bottom team

Sent from my moto g play (2021) using RealGM mobile app

You think we’re worse than Houston, Pelicans and Orlando? Have you seen them play? Lol

Have you watched the Pistons lol they suck just as bad . We got the worst differential in the league

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Still the worst ranked offense but I think that changes over the next 10 days as we play 5 straight home games. Even the win over Toronto really helped our rank now we're barely behind a few teams. I would still bet we'll end up bottom 5 or 6 in differential but I don't think we finish bottom 3 in point differential. Even last year we were 25th in the league in point differential and we're pretty close to the same team this season with more experience. Missing the shots we've missed has been a bit of an anomaly.

[zeebneeb]

Wow that move in the clutch Cade had switching to his left hand was sick.

Clutch gene indeed. Wow.

Man the starting backcourt shows so much promise.

[Sort]

Wow that move in the clutch Cade had switching to his left hand was sick.

Clutch gene indeed. Wow.

Man the starting backcourt shows so much promise.

More so than the resurgence of Beef Stew or Killian's development, this is the number one takeaway: our number one draft pick is struggling to figure out the game, but that didn't stop him from icing it like a ten year pro All Star.

I'm not getting too up or down on Killian or Stew - who still seems more like a small ball five than a real center that can handle a team like Cleveland.

I'm all in though for Cade.