Game 12: Warriors vs Bulls

[floppymoose]

Huge tough section of schedule coming. The next 26 games are mostly on the road and mostly against winning teams. If GS can go 13-13 then we will be in position.

[WESCO]

Huge tough section of schedule coming. The next 26 games are mostly on the road and mostly against winning teams. If GS can go 13-13 then we will be in position.

Looked up the next 20 and I think 60% win rate is more than doable.

[FNQ]

Kerr handled Wiseman just fine.. we had no bigs and the year looked lost from the jump, may as well turn him loose and see where he's at re: NBA caliber talent.. so few big men can step into the league and be useful, and Wiseman was not one of them. Oh well.

Stop trying to make him a McGee.. you don't draft a guy #2 overall to make them a 15 mpg player that doesn't close out the game. Wiseman's appeal is that he can be a 2-way big that fits our switch heavy system because of his length and athleticism.. and Kerr let him find out where he stood in the NBA last year. Now its up to Wiseman to improve. There was no way to make Wiseman useful last year - he was pretty bad across the board.

Meanwhile Oubre gets an extended audition as a Warrior for this year (a year that mattered) and once it was known he wasn't a fit, he was benched and then held out the rest of the season. Much like the 'bench X, bench Y!' chants in every game we've played as we're 11-1, its short-sighted. In most cases its tough to go back to the default, so youd better make sure its the move you want to make. Especially with a nutcase like Oubre. So they gave him a chance, he conclusively failed, we moved on

[FNQ]

This whole Kerr hated re: Wiseman.. I'm willing to be the majority of people griping wanted a hypothetical trade that may or may not have existed.. 'win now' moves. So now that we clearly used the pick on someone who isn't win now, we're judging them under the lens of them being win now picks. Wiseman could have been a positive asset last year? How? His amazing rotational defense, his rebounding, his finishing, his shooting?

He's a long term project and he's likely going to be brutal this season too. What credible draft analyst said that Wiseman was going to help in the short term?

[Impuniti]

No he didn't.

From day 1 the Wiseman situation was spelled out to us. Kerr openly stated that after consultations with the FO and in light of Klay's torn Achilles, Wiseman would be elevated into the starting role and given consistent minutes no matter how he played as they attempt to develop him as rapidly as possible.

Oubre was traded for to be our starter and Kerr was going to play him as our starter really for the same reason. If Kelly was going to make the greatest impact in his first season with the team it would be in the context of learning rapidly as a starter, if he was able to do so.

So the plan was agreed upon between Myers and Kerr and spelled out for all of us before the season: With Klay hurt the Warriors chances of competing took a major hit. The FO pivoted and traded for Oubre. Knowing the only way we could compete would be to develop Wiseman and Oubre into championship pieces they were force fed minutes. There weren't many options and the option they took was a calculated risk but had the highest projected ceiling.

After Wiseman got hurt it became clear they weren't going to reach their plan's ceiling and so Kerr pivoted again, sent Oubre to the bench and starting building his rotation out of less talented but higher IQ players which resulted in us making our playoff push and snagging the 8th best record in the WC. Without better talent, that's really all we were capable of and even if we had won a playin game, it's fair to say we wouldn't have gotten far with only an 8 man rotation.

So I get frustrated when people criticize Kerr or the FO for trying for the highest ceiling team last year. They did that out of respect for Curry and Draymond. They knew after Klay hurt himself that they had few avenues to contention and the path they took was the one that added the most talent without gutting the team and taking a much more drastic(and desperate) approach. I'm glad they took the approach they did because the result is the team we have this season.

All I want to know from all you critics is if you even noticed the play they made last season or did it just fly over your heads?

Edit: I hope you guys don't think it's just a coincidence that Oubre got benched for the first time in his first game back from injury after Wiseman tore his meniscus? Wiseman and Oubre were force fed minutes because making them key pieces to a championship puzzle was the only way we would have the talent to actually compete. I love guys like JTA and Lee but talent actually matters in the NBA and Wiseman and Oubre were the most physically talented guys on the roster. Bringing them along as rapidly as possible was the best path to actually contending.

You're objectively wrong. The only way for someone to work successfully in this system, is have lower usg rates than Steph first, and Dray second (otherwise, Draymond is useless offensively). He clearly forced both to play and gave both roles that they didn't know how to handle.

Wiseman was also truly terrible defensively and should have been playing limited minutes below Looney. He was treated like a draft-team where he got to do whatever he wanted and Warriors were not using a system. Curry and Dray trying to make Wiseman work instead of Wiseman working in their system is a moronic move.

That ^ is an actual ceiling, to get Wiseman used to playing in the Steph system. Them passing him the ball and watching chuck or lose possession did **** all. It didn't progress anything outside of having a mediocre team record while he was on the court. If you can't see this, I don't know what to tell you.

I am objectively right because what I outlined is objectively what happened. Now you and the other whiners can say what Kerr and the FO tried to do with elevating KO and Wiseman was foolhardy and doomed to fail but your hindsight is 20/20 like the rest of us. I'm satisfied with the FO's attempts to hit a homerun in a way that wouldn't jeopardize the team going forward even if it didn't work out. Myers leveraged Lacob's largesse rather than the team's assets and future which was the correct move. Last year's KO and Wiseman experiments were perhaps a desperate attempt to compete but was ultimately done out of respect for Curry and tens of millions of Lacob's money was sacrificed in the effort. Even though it didn't work their heart was in the right place and has my respect.

It's not about hindsight. If you play with Curry, you have to play in his system. Period. Any other way is just noise, the wrong way to go. That's reality, and something that almost everyone knows.

There's no homerun nor did it make any sense to coach them that way. Reality is that you play the Steph system to be successful. Kerr wasn't playing it until both got injured. Him giving that all that usg was awful and not "good for the future", it was just a bad style that was never going to work with the Chef in the team. He should have tried to ingrate them in the Steph system, that's the ceiling. Always.

[a8bil]

This whole Kerr hated re: Wiseman.. I'm willing to be the majority of people griping wanted a hypothetical trade that may or may not have existed.. 'win now' moves. So now that we clearly used the pick on someone who isn't win now, we're judging them under the lens of them being win now picks. Wiseman could have been a positive asset last year? How? His amazing rotational defense, his rebounding, his finishing, his shooting?

He's a long term project and he's likely going to be brutal this season too. What credible draft analyst said that Wiseman was going to help in the short term?

I don't know of any...and when you look at this roster at the beginning of last season, is there any reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the POs? Or, any reason to believe playing Wiseman was an imprudent decision?
That roster even makes a team like the T-Wolves look deep.

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

[and1GS]

This whole Kerr hated re: Wiseman.. I'm willing to be the majority of people griping wanted a hypothetical trade that may or may not have existed.. 'win now' moves. So now that we clearly used the pick on someone who isn't win now, we're judging them under the lens of them being win now picks. Wiseman could have been a positive asset last year? How? His amazing rotational defense, his rebounding, his finishing, his shooting?

He's a long term project and he's likely going to be brutal this season too. What credible draft analyst said that Wiseman was going to help in the short term?

I don't know of any...and when you look at this roster at the beginning of last season, is there any reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the POs? Or, any reason to believe playing Wiseman was an imprudent decision?
That roster even makes a team like the T-Wolves look deep.

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

Mulder was an 8th man for long stretches of last season and watching that guy play makes my eyes bleed.

Also love that you completely omitted Oubre. I've tried to scrub him from my memory as well

[a8bil]

This whole Kerr hated re: Wiseman.. I'm willing to be the majority of people griping wanted a hypothetical trade that may or may not have existed.. 'win now' moves. So now that we clearly used the pick on someone who isn't win now, we're judging them under the lens of them being win now picks. Wiseman could have been a positive asset last year? How? His amazing rotational defense, his rebounding, his finishing, his shooting?

He's a long term project and he's likely going to be brutal this season too. What credible draft analyst said that Wiseman was going to help in the short term?

I don't know of any...and when you look at this roster at the beginning of last season, is there any reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the POs? Or, any reason to believe playing Wiseman was an imprudent decision?
That roster even makes a team like the T-Wolves look deep.

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

Mulder was an 8th man for long stretches of last season and watching that guy play makes my eyes bleed.

Also love that you completely omitted Oubre. I've tried to scrub him from my memory as well

[oaktownwarriors87]

I think the KO decision (if I'm right) is a bit more defensible than JW. Kerr recently said on 95.7 that they gave JW free reign because they really didn't know what he could or could not do. I think it was pretty clear early on what he could not do at a competitive level, so I agree that the JW experiment lasted way too long.

If you don't know what he can do, why give him all the shots? He didn't earn anything. He and Oubre just walked in and they laid down the red carpet, and they sucked in the role they were given and they just kept doing the same thing every night and doubling on their bad decisions. It took them getting injured to shaken to things.

This is completely unheard-of in the NBA. The closest to it was the Chicago Bulls love for Toni Kukoc, but it's not like they were force feeding Toni shots.

I have no faith in this teams ability to make adjustments. It feels like it's Stephen Curry surrounded by people with dumb luck. I'm just glad the Andre is back and that the team is deep. Kerr better not **** this up, again.

I think your viewpoint doesn't hold water if you look back at the GSW roster going into last season. It was:

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

Paschall had limited game and no cred. Wanamaker was a vet who proved to be terrible. JTA had yet to prove he even deserved to be in the league. Poole would be sent down to the G-League to get his shot and head on straight. Lee was a G-league talent playing up. Bazemore was a low IQ journeyman. Mulder was unproven. Are you really going to blame Kerr for playing Oubre and Wiseman given this motley crew? Blame the FO for not gathering more talent, but don't blame Kerr for playing an established NBA player over lightly regarded rookies and g-league talent, or playing Wiseman when 2 games in, it was him or oft-injured Looney.

Absolutely. Most of us were calling for them to be benched early last season. It only took 8 games for this thread to be started:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2038608

Bazemore, Lee and Looney were all much better than Wiseman and Oubre early in the season. The writing was in the wall right out of the gate. Kerr just stuck to his guns.

[a8bil]

If you don't know what he can do, why give him all the shots? He didn't earn anything. He and Oubre just walked in and they laid down the red carpet, and they sucked in the role they were given and they just kept doing the same thing every night and doubling on their bad decisions. It took them getting injured to shaken to things.

This is completely unheard-of in the NBA. The closest to it was the Chicago Bulls love for Toni Kukoc, but it's not like they were force feeding Toni shots.

I have no faith in this teams ability to make adjustments. It feels like it's Stephen Curry surrounded by people with dumb luck. I'm just glad the Andre is back and that the team is deep. Kerr better not **** this up, again.

I think your viewpoint doesn't hold water if you look back at the GSW roster going into last season. It was:

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

Paschall had limited game and no cred. Wanamaker was a vet who proved to be terrible. JTA had yet to prove he even deserved to be in the league. Poole would be sent down to the G-League to get his shot and head on straight. Lee was a G-league talent playing up. Bazemore was a low IQ journeyman. Mulder was unproven. Are you really going to blame Kerr for playing Oubre and Wiseman given this motley crew? Blame the FO for not gathering more talent, but don't blame Kerr for playing an established NBA player over lightly regarded rookies and g-league talent, or playing Wiseman when 2 games in, it was him or oft-injured Looney.

Absolutely. Most of us were calling for them to be benched early last season. It only took 8 games for this thread to be started:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2038608

Bazemore, Lee and Looney were all much better than Wiseman and Oubre early in the season. The writing was in the wall right out of the gate. Kerr just stuck to his guns.

yeah...but Bazemore Lee and Looney get you where? Im guessing the coaches are thinking that with that trio and no Wiseman or Oubre, you still don't have much of a season...maybe a 10th place...can't blame them for shooting higher with more physically talented players.
And saying you were for dumping Oubre in the first few weeks is low hanging fruit. He was having his worst shooting spell of his career to start with GSW. He ultimately trended toward the mean, but his terrible offensive start is not what ultimately made him so expendable. It was lack of ability to integrate defensively.

[superunknown]

iconic.
they should put in in the louvre.

[WarriorGM]

I don't know of any...and when you look at this roster at the beginning of last season, is there any reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the POs? Or, any reason to believe playing Wiseman was an imprudent decision?
That roster even makes a team like the T-Wolves look deep.

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

They had Curry so yes there was reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the playoffs even with that eyesore of a roster.

Curry said he was going for wins—and he did.

As it turned out the Dubs would have made the playoffs any other year and even under the new rules were likely a LeBron 3-pointer miss or a Draymond dunk away from a playoffs spot.

I was okay for drafting Wiseman and playing him in the hope of an off chance that he could be immediate useful, rare but not completely unrealistic as Mobley from this draft appears to show. But he wasn't. When it became apparent he was going to need substantial work they should have quickly ended the experiment. That they did not suggests that they had given up on trying to win.

[a8bil]

I don't know of any...and when you look at this roster at the beginning of last season, is there any reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the POs? Or, any reason to believe playing Wiseman was an imprudent decision?
That roster even makes a team like the T-Wolves look deep.

Curry
Dray
Looney
Paschall
Wiggins
Wanamaker
Wiseman
Poole
JTA
Chriss (gone by game 3)
Lee
Bazemore
Mulder

They had Curry so yes there was reason to believe that they had a chance to go to the playoffs even with that eyesore of a roster.

Curry said he was going for wins—and he did.

As it turned out the Dubs would have made the playoffs any other year and even under the new rules were likely a LeBron 3-pointer miss or a Draymond dunk away from a playoffs spot.

I was okay for drafting Wiseman and playing him in the hope of an off chance that he could be immediate useful, rare but not completely unrealistic as Mobley from this draft appears to show. But he wasn't. When it became apparent he was going to need substantial work they should have quickly ended the experiment. That they did not suggests that they had given up on trying to win.

Had Chriss not gone down, and Poole and Oubre started the season like a hot mess, I suspect they might have limited JW's minutes. But you have to look at the situation through the lens of what was happening then, not hindsight. Looney had had all of 36 game starts over the prior 4 years. Mulder was (still is) a lightly regarded FA who had played in all of 7 NBA games. JTA was a journeyman who had played in 13 NBA games. Lee had only seen meaningful minutes in the aborted prior season, and looked like maybe a 9-10 deep player, at best. Wanamaker promised nothing more than maybe 5 points a game. Without Poole and Oubre performing, the cupboard was bare. You're argument assumes GSW knew that Poole would come back from the G-League a different player, and that by benching Wiseman in favor of doubling/tripling Looney minutes, getting meaningfull contributions from JTA, and benching Oubre for Lee, GSW would become a competitive team. That's a bridge too far for me. Feels like a lot of hindsight, notwithstanding Green and Curry's brilliance.

[WarriorGM]

Had Chriss not gone down, and Poole and Oubre started the season like a hot mess, I suspect they might have limited JW's minutes. But you have to look at the situation through the lens of what was happening then, not hindsight. Looney had had all of 36 game starts over the prior 4 years. Mulder was (still is) a lightly regarded FA who had played in all of 7 NBA games. JTA was a journeyman who had played in 13 NBA games. Lee had only seen meaningful minutes in the aborted prior season, and looked like maybe a 9-10 deep player, at best. Wanamaker promised nothing more than maybe 5 points a game. Without Poole and Oubre performing, the cupboard was bare. You're argument assumes GSW knew that Poole would come back from the G-League a different player, and that by benching Wiseman in favor of doubling/tripling Looney minutes, getting meaningfull contributions from JTA, and benching Oubre for Lee, GSW would become a competitive team. That's a bridge too far for me. Feels like a lot of hindsight, notwithstanding Green and Curry's brilliance.

What are you trying to say with the above? These are explanations for what? Explanations to not go for wins and give up on the year?

You mention hindsight. What did you learn with hindsight that you didn't know at the time that would make you do things differently?

[Impuniti]

iconic.
they should put in in the louvre.

I wish the photographer would have got the guy pointing at Steph, still great though.

[a8bil]

Had Chriss not gone down, and Poole and Oubre started the season like a hot mess, I suspect they might have limited JW's minutes. But you have to look at the situation through the lens of what was happening then, not hindsight. Looney had had all of 36 game starts over the prior 4 years. Mulder was (still is) a lightly regarded FA who had played in all of 7 NBA games. JTA was a journeyman who had played in 13 NBA games. Lee had only seen meaningful minutes in the aborted prior season, and looked like maybe a 9-10 deep player, at best. Wanamaker promised nothing more than maybe 5 points a game. Without Poole and Oubre performing, the cupboard was bare. You're argument assumes GSW knew that Poole would come back from the G-League a different player, and that by benching Wiseman in favor of doubling/tripling Looney minutes, getting meaningfull contributions from JTA, and benching Oubre for Lee, GSW would become a competitive team. That's a bridge too far for me. Feels like a lot of hindsight, notwithstanding Green and Curry's brilliance.

What are you trying to say with the above? These are explanations for what? Explanations to not go for wins and give up on the year?

You mention hindsight. What did you learn with hindsight that you didn't know at the time that would make you do things differently?

Isn't it obvious? As others have mentioned, GSW had few clear options, and trying to scale up JW quickly as possible to be a functional center appeared like the only path toward competitiveness. In hindsight, they would eventually get a full, healthy and productive season out of Looney, JTA would be surprisingly effective, Lee stepped it up and Poole returned from the G-league to be a solid #2 scorer, all of which led to GSW being competitive by the end of the year. None of that was obvious or even within the wildest dreams of the biggest homer fans early in the season as they gave JW minutes.

[Commodor]

Another aspect of early last season that contributed to more JW was Wiggins started the year pretty terrible as did KO. Kerr literally was scraping the bottom of the barrel for any offensive help to Curry.

[WarriorGM]

Had Chriss not gone down, and Poole and Oubre started the season like a hot mess, I suspect they might have limited JW's minutes. But you have to look at the situation through the lens of what was happening then, not hindsight. Looney had had all of 36 game starts over the prior 4 years. Mulder was (still is) a lightly regarded FA who had played in all of 7 NBA games. JTA was a journeyman who had played in 13 NBA games. Lee had only seen meaningful minutes in the aborted prior season, and looked like maybe a 9-10 deep player, at best. Wanamaker promised nothing more than maybe 5 points a game. Without Poole and Oubre performing, the cupboard was bare. You're argument assumes GSW knew that Poole would come back from the G-League a different player, and that by benching Wiseman in favor of doubling/tripling Looney minutes, getting meaningfull contributions from JTA, and benching Oubre for Lee, GSW would become a competitive team. That's a bridge too far for me. Feels like a lot of hindsight, notwithstanding Green and Curry's brilliance.

What are you trying to say with the above? These are explanations for what? Explanations to not go for wins and give up on the year?

You mention hindsight. What did you learn with hindsight that you didn't know at the time that would make you do things differently?

Isn't it obvious? As others have mentioned, GSW had few clear options, and trying to scale up JW quickly as possible to be a functional center appeared like the only path toward competitiveness. In hindsight, they would eventually get a full, healthy and productive season out of Looney, JTA would be surprisingly effective, Lee stepped it up and Poole returned from the G-league to be a solid #2 scorer, all of which led to GSW being competitive by the end of the year. None of that was obvious or even within the wildest dreams of the biggest homer fans early in the season as they gave JW minutes.

In a standard situation that might all make sense. But this wasn't a standard situation. Why? Because you had Curry.

Curry is a partner to some of the most iconic duos in basketball history. Curry-Draymond. Curry-Klay. Curry-KD. Curry pairs beautifully with so many different kinds of players. I said last year that one of the primary tasks of the coaching staff should be identifying the players that work best with Curry so much so that I feel even Smailagic should have been given some minutes with Curry just to be certain there wasn't some magic there. It's one reason why that injury year was such a waste, we didn't see Curry's interaction with all those players that came and went to see if there was a spark. Consider the case of Young Glove if you think I'm pulling your leg.

Again that's why I wasn't against playing Wiseman initially. But when you see that he's not only not playing well with Curry but playing absolutely awful with Curry—something that is rare—you pull the plug. From what I recall JTA showed pretty quickly he deserved to be played. Twice the amount of time it took for JTA to show he was good enough should have been enough time to make a decision on the other players including Wiseman.

As for expectations, you play regardless and have faith. If expectations were all that mattered what's the point of playing? Just do it all on paper. When you have Curry there is a good surprise factor built in there.

[DonaldSanders]

Curry is a partner to some of the most iconic duos in basketball history. Curry-Draymond. Curry-Klay. Curry-KD. Curry pairs beautifully with so many different kinds of players. I said last year that one of the primary tasks of the coaching staff should be identifying the players that work best with Curry so much so that I feel even Smailagic should have been given some minutes with Curry just to be certain there wasn't some magic there. It's one reason why that injury year was such a waste, we didn't see Curry's interaction with all those players that came and went to see if there was a spark. Consider the case of Young Glove if you think I'm pulling your leg.

OK sometimes I can't tell if he is just trolling or if these are real opinions.

Absolutely. Most of us were calling for them to be benched early last season. It only took 8 games for this thread to be started:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2038608

The main thing I get from that thread is being reminded that Coxy waited 3 dates to inquire about a handjob. And yes people wanted Oubre gone practically the entire season.

[a8bil]

What are you trying to say with the above? These are explanations for what? Explanations to not go for wins and give up on the year?

You mention hindsight. What did you learn with hindsight that you didn't know at the time that would make you do things differently?

Isn't it obvious? As others have mentioned, GSW had few clear options, and trying to scale up JW quickly as possible to be a functional center appeared like the only path toward competitiveness. In hindsight, they would eventually get a full, healthy and productive season out of Looney, JTA would be surprisingly effective, Lee stepped it up and Poole returned from the G-league to be a solid #2 scorer, all of which led to GSW being competitive by the end of the year. None of that was obvious or even within the wildest dreams of the biggest homer fans early in the season as they gave JW minutes.

In a standard situation that might all make sense. But this wasn't a standard situation. Why? Because you had Curry.

Curry is a partner to some of the most iconic duos in basketball history. Curry-Draymond. Curry-Klay. Curry-KD. Curry pairs beautifully with so many different kinds of players. I said last year that one of the primary tasks of the coaching staff should be identifying the players that work best with Curry so much so that I feel even Smailagic should have been given some minutes with Curry just to be certain there wasn't some magic there. It's one reason why that injury year was such a waste, we didn't see Curry's interaction with all those players that came and went to see if there was a spark. Consider the case of Young Glove if you think I'm pulling your leg.

Again that's why I wasn't against playing Wiseman initially. But when you see that he's not only not playing well with Curry but playing absolutely awful with Curry—something that is rare—you pull the plug. From what I recall JTA showed pretty quickly he deserved to be played. Twice the amount of time it took for JTA to show he was good enough should have been enough time to make a decision on the other players including Wiseman.

But, a lot of what you are going on is speculation that these unproven players (Smailagic? really?) would catch lightening in a bottle playing alongside Curry. That's hope, not a plan.

And just for perspective, through game 20 last year, JTA had 13 Inactive/DNP and was averaging 3.1 pts, 3 rbs, 1.7 assts with a -1.9 bpm on 14 minutes/game. Hardly a resume that says, play me more! In fact, JTA only started getting regular minutes after JW hurt his wrist and was out games 21-31. Even then, through that date, JTA had 12 starts and was putting up meh stats across the board.

After JW returned, he only played in 17 more games, not counting the game he got injured in. Of the first nine games back, he started only one game when both Curry and Green were out. The rest he came off of the bench and he actually played pretty well. The entire team stunk against the Lakers in game 40. Excluding that game, JW was putting up 11.6 pts, 5.4 rpg on 20 min/gm, shooting .618 TS%. he was then out 3 games and returned to a Curry-less GSW and mostly started. Over JW's last 8 games, Curry only played in 4, and Dray missed 2 as well. JW was a warm body starting... and obviously without Curry, or a healthy Curry, GSW started tanking hard...

All of this is to say that your recollection about when JTA started showing promise is faulty, as is your recollection about how many games Kerr was forcing JW to play with Curry.