Realistic upgrades at C?

[vini_vidi_vici]

I ain't disrespecting anyone for their opinions.

But my take: our Coaching staff and FO have decided that the traditional C is or will become antiquated in the NBA.

.

Kind of funny but… Of course they have, probably five years ago!

I mean draymond green and the GSW changed everything. Just because we got there with Gasoline changes little, he is a very different type of player. The Lakers got there with Davis which is a PF. And last year the Bucks had to play GA more at the five and Buds fascination with Lopez and traditional bb almost cost him yet again.

There is no place really left for that player. The position is getting quicker and quicker means smaller. Quicker means an ability to guard more than the five, and the perimeter. No finding that prototype centre in a different body is in no way easy and in no ways has the nba figured out what to really draft for there mostly. And he has to be able to space the floor and shoot the three.

I’ve been railing against employing slow centres and about this change for years here. Raptors are at least adapted now that they are rebuilding. No ide that they have it right at all yet. They obviously think highly of achuiwa and he could fit the mould but he’s raw as hell. Birch is just pretty darn average for the role but he doesn’t hurt you.

The end product, the ideal to small ball C to me… is OG. He can defend anyone.

I think I would quibble with theres no place for them anymore.

I think there is, but not teams like our who are trying to break the mould, unlike some traditional teams (The Sixers as an example). I think there is an avenue for both, but I for one, like the idea of versatility over role definition (and thats not to say teams dont use both, im just saying in a macro sense).

[Morse Code]

If Masai can find a 6'10" to 7'+ guy who can guard 1-5, has a 7'4" wingspan minimum, can sprint the floor on 36 minutes per game and can break LeBron's ankles with his crossover, then I'm sure he'd try to get him. Otherwise it's just difficult to find someone who fits our system.

Okay, maybe he doesn't have to do ALL those things, but he's got to fit our system. Even Ibaka would be too slow these days to keep up with these guys, with his health problems.

Kai Jones


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Johnny Bball]

I ain't disrespecting anyone for their opinions.

But my take: our Coaching staff and FO have decided that the traditional C is or will become antiquated in the NBA.

.

Kind of funny but… Of course they have, probably five years ago!

I mean draymond green and the GSW changed everything. Just because we got there with Gasoline changes little, he is a very different type of player. The Lakers got there with Davis which is a PF. And last year the Bucks had to play GA more at the five and Buds fascination with Lopez and traditional bb almost cost him yet again.

There is no place really left for that player. The position is getting quicker and quicker means smaller. Quicker means an ability to guard more than the five, and the perimeter. No finding that prototype centre in a different body is in no way easy and in no ways has the nba figured out what to really draft for there mostly. And he has to be able to space the floor and shoot the three.

I’ve been railing against employing slow centres and about this change for years here. Raptors are at least adapted now that they are rebuilding. No ide that they have it right at all yet. They obviously think highly of achuiwa and he could fit the mould but he’s raw as hell. Birch is just pretty darn average for the role but he doesn’t hurt you.

The end product, the ideal to small ball C to me… is OG. He can defend anyone.

I think I would quibble with theres no place for them anymore.

I think there is, but not teams like our who are trying to break the mould, unlike some traditional teams (The Sixers as an example). I think there is an avenue for both, but I for one, like the idea of versatility over role definition (and thats not to say teams dont use both, im just saying in a macro sense).

Yep. It just puts a lower ceiling on you team if you 1) have to play that type at the five 2) pay him largish and have no small solution that can carry you past the better teams. There’s a place for them as lon* as the league is still transitioning over. Basically for a “bb generation” for lack of a better term (which should line up about with JVs career).

(Versatility is problem the best adjective to describe the modern five btw.)

Even Goberts impact defence can be mostly neutralized when you drag him to the perimeter. So then you’re paying the max for a guy that will kind of disappear for you when it matters most, just like last year, for them. And he’s still a good defender out there, but his impact just shrinks.

[Backcountry]

If Masai can find a 6'10" to 7'+ guy who can guard 1-5, has a 7'4" wingspan minimum, can sprint the floor on 36 minutes per game and can break LeBron's ankles with his crossover, then I'm sure he'd try to get him. Otherwise it's just difficult to find someone who fits our system.

Okay, maybe he doesn't have to do ALL those things, but he's got to fit our system. Even Ibaka would be too slow these days to keep up with these guys, with his health problems.

Kai Jones


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Do you think Charlotte would be interested in a slightly used Dragic?

[bluerap23]

We have 3 modern NBA starting calibre centres
Pascal, OG and Scottie

[Psubs]

WCS?

[mdenny]

Kind of funny but… Of course they have, probably five years ago!

I mean draymond green and the GSW changed everything. Just because we got there with Gasoline changes little, he is a very different type of player. The Lakers got there with Davis which is a PF. And last year the Bucks had to play GA more at the five and Buds fascination with Lopez and traditional bb almost cost him yet again.

There is no place really left for that player. The position is getting quicker and quicker means smaller. Quicker means an ability to guard more than the five, and the perimeter. No finding that prototype centre in a different body is in no way easy and in no ways has the nba figured out what to really draft for there mostly. And he has to be able to space the floor and shoot the three.

I’ve been railing against employing slow centres and about this change for years here. Raptors are at least adapted now that they are rebuilding. No ide that they have it right at all yet. They obviously think highly of achuiwa and he could fit the mould but he’s raw as hell. Birch is just pretty darn average for the role but he doesn’t hurt you.

The end product, the ideal to small ball C to me… is OG. He can defend anyone.

I think I would quibble with theres no place for them anymore.

I think there is, but not teams like our who are trying to break the mould, unlike some traditional teams (The Sixers as an example). I think there is an avenue for both, but I for one, like the idea of versatility over role definition (and thats not to say teams dont use both, im just saying in a macro sense).

Yep. It just puts a lower ceiling on you team if you 1) have to play that type at the five 2) pay him largish and have no small solution that can carry you past the better teams. There’s a place for them as lon* as the league is still transitioning over. Basically for a “bb generation” for lack of a better term (which should line up about with JVs career).

(Versatility is problem the best adjective to describe the modern five btw.)

Even Goberts impact defence can be mostly neutralized when you drag him to the perimeter. So then you’re paying the max for a guy that will kind of disappear for you when it matters most, just like last year, for them. And he’s still a good defender out there, but his impact just shrinks.

There's a couple youtube clips showing last year's clippers vs Jazz series that are hilarious.

9 guys on the peimeter and Gobert by himself under the basket. You paid a max contract to what is essentially a ball retriever dyring shooting practise.

I get the feeling that Jazz coach wanted to put Gobert on bench but knew it wod have too many repercussions....especially if they still lost.

So like explained in moneyball....the coach goes for the bunt, against the odds, because it limits the media fallout if things don't work out.

IoW...."i'd rather lose without doing the counter-intuitive strategy so that i keep my job than go with the odds and have a better chance of winning"

Thankfully....our coach doesn't care what casuals say. Aint nobody jankier than nick nurse. He will play Birch at PG if he thinks it would give us an actual advantage.

If the GS series in our chip run didnt go our way....can we imagine the ridicule he would've got for the box and one? Would have been months, even years of Nurse being a "grammer school coach". All the fred-haters on this board would've been on that to this day. Would have been the dominant casual talking point.

[sidsid]

It's the era of the small forward. The edges are getting squeezed out. Undersized players have to provide you some instant offense or they fall in and out of rotations as their impact fades. Bigs are vulnerable to a number of lineups now, and if the 3s start falling, they hit the bench.

That being said, there's only 2 types of role players you should be paying now: SFs who can at least hit 3s, and a center who can hang with exactly two Cs: Embiid and Jokic. The worst thing that could happen to a contender is losing a winnable series because you couldn't matchup with them.

For the latter, I still wouldn't pay more than the MLE.

But none of this matters for us. We're not a matchup C away from winning a championship and the cost of getting one isn't worth it considering we'd have to shed all salary that isn't Barnes/OG/Siakam in order to get a high impact all star or superstar in FA or through trade in the future.

[AHCanada]

It's the era of the small forward. The edges are getting squeezed out. Undersized players have to provide you some instant offense or they fall in and out of rotations as their impact fades. Bigs are vulnerable to a number of lineups now, and if the 3s start falling, they hit the bench.

That being said, there's only 2 types of role players you should be paying now: SFs who can at least hit 3s, and a center who can hang with exactly two Cs: Embiid and Jokic. The worst thing that could happen to a contender is losing a winnable series because you couldn't matchup with them.

For the latter, I still wouldn't pay more than the MLE.

But none of this matters for us. We're not a matchup C away from winning a championship and the cost of getting one isn't worth it considering we'd have to shed all salary that isn't Barnes/OG/Siakam in order to get a high impact all star or superstar in FA or through trade in the future.

Well said and totally agree!

[mdenny]

It's the era of the small forward. The edges are getting squeezed out. Undersized players have to provide you some instant offense or they fall in and out of rotations as their impact fades. Bigs are vulnerable to a number of lineups now, and if the 3s start falling, they hit the bench.

That being said, there's only 2 types of role players you should be paying now: SFs who can at least hit 3s, and a center who can hang with exactly two Cs: Embiid and Jokic. The worst thing that could happen to a contender is losing a winnable series because you couldn't matchup with them.

For the latter, I still wouldn't pay more than the MLE.

But none of this matters for us. We're not a matchup C away from winning a championship and the cost of getting one isn't worth it considering we'd have to shed all salary that isn't Barnes/OG/Siakam in ordnoer to get a high impact all star or superstar in FA or through trade in the future.

Agreed. We are one backcourt player away from seriously contending. And we got the draft picks and salary filler to get him

[CoinTossRoss31]

If Masai can find a 6'10" to 7'+ guy who can guard 1-5, has a 7'4" wingspan minimum, can sprint the floor on 36 minutes per game and can break LeBron's ankles with his crossover, then I'm sure he'd try to get him. Otherwise it's just difficult to find someone who fits our system.

Okay, maybe he doesn't have to do ALL those things, but he's got to fit our system. Even Ibaka would be too slow these days to keep up with these guys, with his health problems.

Kai Jones


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I was also a fan of Kai Jones and wanted him to be one of our picks if we originally traded down from 7. But I feel like if Masai really wanted him they wouldve made a play to get him at the draft?

Funny looking back how when we were picking at 7 we were saying the Giddey rumor was a smokescreen. Now with him impressing it makes sense that he probably wouldve been our pick if Barnes/Mobley were off the board

[SunBoy]

I think the real question is if we can flip dragic for a C, if anyone?

[OhCanada1091]

Every night were getting killed in the paint. I think this was the plan. Keeps our draft pick valuable, in the lottery. Gives us a chance for a home run. This years draft doesn't address the position either so they will probably not address the position next year either but there are some talented bigs. Daimion Collins would be best case scenerio. I don't know if Chet is a C. If we draft outside the lotto theres allso Badji, Nsoza, Edey, Osunniyi and others should emerge.

[OhCanada1091]

We have 3 modern NBA starting calibre centres
Pascal, OG and Scottie

OG doesn't rebound, Pascal doesn't play physical and Scottie gets lost on pick and rolls and over helps. Were getting exploited every night.

[D3158]

What bout JV. New Orleans is in last place this year

JV would be my preference. Then Poetl. We have either one of those going into the playoffs, best believe, they're starting for us and we're going to atleast 2nd round.

[HumbleRen]

We have 3 modern NBA starting calibre centres
Pascal, OG and Scottie

OG doesn't rebound, Pascal doesn't play physical and Scottie gets lost on pick and rolls and over helps. Were getting exploited every night.

All apart of the plan.

[Psubs]

We have 3 modern NBA starting calibre centres
Pascal, OG and Scottie

OG doesn't rebound, Pascal doesn't play physical and Scottie gets lost on pick and rolls and over helps. Were getting exploited every night.

All apart of the plan.

To draft Nikola Jovic in the mid-teens?

[kirkwood]

Realistic available free agents

Demarcus Cousins
Thon Maker
Jahlil Okafor

[Indeed]

We have 3 modern NBA starting calibre centres
Pascal, OG and Scottie

OG doesn't rebound, Pascal doesn't play physical and Scottie gets lost on pick and rolls and over helps. Were getting exploited every night.

This is what I see as well.
And during transition, none of them picked up Stewart last game, as they all are more perimeter defenders.

I think when the game slowed down at closing time, this would be fine with having a Siakam-Barnes-OG lineup, but it does not seem to work throughout the whole game.

And if anything Achiuwa and Birch indicated with their injuries, it is just a matter of time we risk our scorers to miss some games.

[flaco]

Dragic+ for Horford.

Celtics fan here. How about

Horford+++ for Siakam?

or

Timelord+++ for Siakam?

Feel free to include pick(s) as well.