2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Qwigglez]

I too, have entertained the idea of a KAT for Ayton (plus others) swap. This win streak has made me forget all about Ayton. I think if a deal were to fall through, it would be Cam Johnson, Dario Saric, and Jalen Smith, along with several 1st round picks (Ayton too of course).

[Puff]

Ayton had better offensive numbers playing with Rubio. The notion he's a by product of CP3 is laughable and maclearly shows the agenda of a few people here. KAT is a better offensive player obviously and still has not done squat while being two more years in the league and playing with multiple Nr 1 picks and a player like Butler. His shooting is not that valuable on this team, Ayton's D is certainly huge.

It's funny, being that Puff was going by stuff like PPG, etc, and also saying CP3 was the reason, Ayton put up more PPG before CP3 when Rubio was here and he was a focal point of scoring. His efficiency has improved now though.

I'd be happy to have KAT.

But Ayton is probably more important to our team than many think.

People assume all those back him want to give him the max. I don't think he is quite worth it. Though Book wasn't either. They will need to come up with a good deal for him or match one then. I think they should try to avoid matching one so he doesn't have some sort of out in 3 years though. You may have to give him a good deal just to lock him up for 5 years.

If other teams think he's worth the max, then he will have trade value anyway, and it will be far higher if he's locked up for 5 years than if he has an out after 3.

With a rising cap, more money wouldn't be a big deal. I think if he won't take like 5/$135 they should just offer him what Booker got. I think if they phrase it right "We will give you exactly what we gave Book" it should make him feel valued, even in relative terms it's not nearly as much money when you consider increase in cap or ''nba inflation" and is a lot less relatively speaking than Booker got when he got it.

The point I am trying to make is that what Ayton brings does not deserve the max. For that matter I do not think any of the bigs in the league are worth the max that includes Embiid. Even Embiid needs someone to be the engine to drive the ship. Right now I do not know who is the engine for that Franchise. The teams below that have won championships have all had great engines and bigs willing to do the dirty work of rebounding and defense. That is what we need. I think Ayton can do those things but not at the expense of acquiring another legit engine to pair with Booker when CP3 calls it quits. I really think that is where James Jones is. Who that replacement is, I have no clue.

Centers on NBA Champions ( Not many if any max contracts to any of these guys - see below)

The engines that have won championships (The Green Freak, Lebron, Duncan, Kobe, Curry) Our Engine is Chris Paul and he is damn good but he will not be here forever. We need to try to add that person to our roster this summer. If we can do that while keeping Ayton I will be very happy. If we blow all of our money on Ayton it is going to be a gigantic mistake.

2021 - Milwaukee Brook Lopez
2020 - Lakers - Dwight Howard / Javale McGee
2019 - Toronto - Mark Gasol
2018 - Golden State - Javale McGee /Kevin Looney
2017 - Golden State - Javale McGee / Kevin Looney
2016 - Cleveland - Timofey Mozgov/ Channing Frye
2015 - Golden State - Andrew Bogut
2014 - SanAntonio - Tim Duncan (Exception to the Rule HOF)
2013 - Bosh - Highly paid but played more like a PF
2012 - Bosh - ditto
2011 - Tyson Chandler
2010 - Bynum / Gasol
2009 - Bynum /Gasol

[sunskerr]

I think with the way Paul is playing this year, if we have a chance to trade Ayton for an upgrade we have to do it. Paul is playing the best basketball he has in a couple years. It's really astounding. He's better than Nash was in 2010. Looks like he's gotten his sleight of hand back too with all these steals he's picking up.

[bigfoot]

I think with the way Paul is playing this year, if we have a chance to trade Ayton for an upgrade we have to do it. Paul is playing the best basketball he has in a couple years. It's really astounding. He's better than Nash was in 2010. Looks like he's gotten his sleight of hand back too with all these steals he's picking up.

yep… Ayton for a star power forward makes the most sense.

edit: Tatum at PF or Sabonis.

[NapoleonII]

I think with the way Paul is playing this year, if we have a chance to trade Ayton for an upgrade we have to do it. Paul is playing the best basketball he has in a couple years. It's really astounding. He's better than Nash was in 2010. Looks like he's gotten his sleight of hand back too with all these steals he's picking up.

yep… Ayton for a star power forward makes the most sense.

edit: Tatum at PF or Sabonis.

It's like we have battered Franchise syndrome from the dark years.

This core turned things around - we saw that in the Bubble. CP3 is a HOF point guard that still has plenty of juice left, but you guys wanna TRADE a key part of that core that got us to the finals because we're beating a couple of horrendous teams early in the season?

The reigning MVP has nothing but positive things to say about Ayton, but sure, let's trade him for an older, less defensive version who can bomb three's because our offense is so stagnant, who will need more touches and whine about their role when we start losing.

[Mulhollanddrive]

My Plan A would be to get Lillard to replace Paul so we would need Ayton's defense even more.

[sasquatchBob]

I'd rather have Ayton than KAT. At least Ayton can play defense. Our system has proven that all we need at center is someone who can play defense and rebound.

[sunsbg]

While we are at trading half the team + picks for KAT, let's also make a move for Westbrook to replace CP3.

[TheLoon]

Trading Ayton would have to be done soon...I don't want to do it but with the Suns winning without him his trade value is dropping by the day...I still want to keep him because he's so young and has tremendous upside...but IF Jones wants to pull that trigger you do it now or not at all

[DB43]

I'd rather have Ayton than KAT. At least Ayton can play defense. Our system has proven that all we need at center is someone who can play defense and rebound.

So you want to pay a Center that plays defense $192 million dollars over 5 years?

You see this team without him. McGee and Frank are putting up Ayton numbers every game.

I love Ayton, and if Jones pays him, I'm ok with it. But I would happily move him for KAT, even if it means giving up Cam J. I don't think we will be able to afford Cam Johnson anyway when they time comes. Espeically if we pay Ayton a max.

Ayton, Cam J, Saric, and a future pick or Jalen Smith for KAT. Good trade for both teams.

[NapoleonII]

I'd rather have Ayton than KAT. At least Ayton can play defense. Our system has proven that all we need at center is someone who can play defense and rebound.

So you want to pay a Center that plays defense $192 million dollars over 5 years?

You see this team without him. McGee and Frank are putting up Ayton numbers every game.

I love Ayton, and if Jones pays him, I'm ok with it. But I would happily move him for KAT, even if it means giving up Cam J. I don't think we will be able to afford Cam Johnson anyway when they time comes. Espeically if we pay Ayton a max.

Ayton, Cam J, Saric, and a future pick or Jalen Smith for KAT. Good trade for both teams.

That team gets demolished by the Warriors in 5 games.

Curry switches to KAT every time down the floor and gets whatever he wants.

[DB43]

I'd rather have Ayton than KAT. At least Ayton can play defense. Our system has proven that all we need at center is someone who can play defense and rebound.

So you want to pay a Center that plays defense $192 million dollars over 5 years?

You see this team without him. McGee and Frank are putting up Ayton numbers every game.

I love Ayton, and if Jones pays him, I'm ok with it. But I would happily move him for KAT, even if it means giving up Cam J. I don't think we will be able to afford Cam Johnson anyway when they time comes. Espeically if we pay Ayton a max.

Ayton, Cam J, Saric, and a future pick or Jalen Smith for KAT. Good trade for both teams.

That team gets demolished by the Warriors in 5 games.

Curry switches to KAT every time down the floor and gets whatever he wants.

Wasn't KAT considered an excellent defender in his first couple years in the league? Above average? You don't think in our program he can LEARN how to be a good defender, like our entire team has learned. Even Booker? Ayton was not good a couple years ago. He has gradually become an excellent defender.

[Waylay13]

I'd rather have Ayton than KAT. At least Ayton can play defense. Our system has proven that all we need at center is someone who can play defense and rebound.

So you want to pay a Center that plays defense $192 million dollars over 5 years?

You see this team without him. McGee and Frank are putting up Ayton numbers every game.

I love Ayton, and if Jones pays him, I'm ok with it. But I would happily move him for KAT, even if it means giving up Cam J. I don't think we will be able to afford Cam Johnson anyway when they time comes. Espeically if we pay Ayton a max.

Ayton, Cam J, Saric, and a future pick or Jalen Smith for KAT. Good trade for both teams.

That team gets demolished by the Warriors in 5 games.

Curry switches to KAT every time down the floor and gets whatever he wants.

Ayton has just finished his 3 year in the NBA and will continue to get better. He also wont be be able to get the $192 million contact due to not signing during the pre-season. Personally wouldn't trade Ayton for KAT straight up let alone with the other pieces that would be required to make the deal happen.

[sunsbg]

Wasn't KAT considered an excellent defender in his first couple years in the league? Above average? You don't think in our program he can LEARN how to be a good defender, like our entire team has learned. Even Booker? Ayton was not good a couple years ago. He has gradually become an excellent defender.

When I watch KAT he moves like a barrell, while DA is pretty light on his feet. I don't know.

[JDLAW]

Trading Ayton and a bunch of our starters/reserves for KAT makes little sense. Breaking up a championship contending team for KAT makes no sense at this time.

[JDLAW]

Trading Ayton would have to be done soon...I don't want to do it but with the Suns winning without him his trade value is dropping by the day...I still want to keep him because he's so young and has tremendous upside...but IF Jones wants to pull that trigger you do it now or not at all

Ayton's trade value is "dropping by the day"? Ridiculous.

[Sunsdeuce]

Hilarious that anyone wants to trade for KaT. Dude can’t win. Even with star players on his team and he is one of the worst defenders in the league. Always has been terrible on defense. He has no affect on outcomes of games because his stats are just empty stats.

Secondly, suns have had the easiest schedule in the league this year. It’s laughable to even suggest that Ayton value is dropping. Call me when we play a quality opponent. Suns aren’t beating the Warriors, Bulls, Clippers, Jazz, Mavs, Lakers without Ayton.

McGee had 19 and 14 against the Rockets and some of you are pounding your chest like he can do that against a quality team. This place is hilarious sometimes.

Suns are second to last of the below list of teams with difficult schedules so far (meaning we have had the easiest schedule so far).

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php

[Saberestar]

IF the Wolves continues losing games I think that Towns will ask for a trade before the deadline.

Just watch this...

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[lilfishi22]

I don't really know where the Ayton/KAT talks originated from but I'll weigh in. Ayton has much better lateral quickness than KAT and that allows him to defend on the switch much more competently but I do think KAT's poor defense is at least partially due to the Wolves not playing much defense as a team. Booker went through a similar phase and he was NEVER a good defender until this pats season or so when he put in effort and focus on that end. KAT at least was somewhat of a decent defender early onwards which tells me he could get back to that level at minimum.

So question is whether to trade Ayton (plus others) for KAT and I'll be honest, I think our offense would be incredible with KAT. Pairing a top 3 SG with a top 3 C alongside a top 5 PG and a bunch of solid supporting pieces is a helluva combination. I get that Ayton's defense was big time for us and I don't at all want to diminish how much of an impact he was but I do wonder how far we could've gotten if other teams were healthier. If AD was closer to 100%, if Murray was paying, if Kawhi was playing...I do feel like we lacked the firepower and fell apart when Book wasn't getting his points.

Booker for the most part, will get his points but for as good as CP3 was on the passing end for us, we don't really talk as much about how big of a load CP3 was taking on scoring the ball for us. Granted, CP3 looked good and was efficient for us but is that something to rely on? Do we expect him to be our 20-25ppg scorer in a playoff series alongside Book? The problem I see here is that we have a significant drop off in offensive talent after CP3 and Book. Bridges COULD be that 3rd guy but I still don't have great confidence in him yet. Ayton looks like he's still a few seasons away from taking on that role as that 2nd/3rd option. It's still very much a question mark where we're getting that 3rd scorer. You could argue that 3rd scorer is a combination of Ayton/Bridges/Cam/Cam in the playoffs, you sort of need a reliable 3rd guy.

I feel like KAT makes a lot of sense if we're looking to win in that CP3 window and continuing into the future. KAT can create his own shot, he can play within a system shooting 3's, he can play in the PnR. He's basically the perfect offensive big man on a team that loves ball movement, loves finding the open man and loves floor spacing allowing Book/CP3 to do what they want in the paint. I love what I've seen from Ayton defensively and he could still be a 20ppg scorer but I just don't see him get there as long as CP3 is here because of the way we play and what we ask of him.

The question around the defense is probably the biggest hold up for me. Sample size is still very much too small to come to any sort of conclusion but we're holding our own so far defensively without Ayton. Different situation than in the playoffs and having Ayton on guys like AD, Jokic, Zubac and even Giannis was a key reason we got as far as we did but how much do we lose in defense vs how much more do we gain on offense with KAT? I think a motivated KAT is perhaps a tier or so below Ayton defensively but he's several tiers better an offensive player.

Ayton had an amazing playoff run and I don't want to take anything away from him but if I was to play hypotheticals, how far do we go in the playoffs if even one of AD, Kawhi or Murray was healthy? Do we even win more than one game if Giannis was 100%? What do we have to counter that extra all-NBA level offensive output?

[matt131]

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