76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[dhsilv2]

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

And before that was the Harden and the team letting the world know that they don't view Simmons as a player who can lead them to a title. We're going in circles here, my friend.

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

Which is a riduculous demand for a player of Simmons' caliber. He isn't good enough to get that kind of return.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

I 100% disagree. In these situations, we were talking about by far the best player on the team. The face of the franchise. The player that the team was built around. Those aren't the case with Simmons. Embiid is by far the best player on the team, not Simmons. Simmons is the 2nd best player and, offensively, he's the 3rd option at best (a lot of times he's the 4th or even 5th option).

These teams had every reason to want to keep these guys since they were their win conditions. Simmons isn't Philly's win condition. If anything, he's often been the detriment to the team winning.

So we're back to my point. The 76ers clearly are not acting like they want to trade Simmons as they clearly value him EXTREMELY highly, just like Leonard and AD were valued.

You're making my point for me dude. Everything you're saying goes against your statement that philly and ben mutually want to part ways. The 76ers still value Ben beyond what the market seem to value him at, which goes back to. THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRADE HIM.

[madmaxmedia]

And yet the 76ers are doing JUST that. Thus your attempt to make it sound like philly is looking to move on from Simmons doesn't hold water. The 76ers looked to move Simmons for James Harden. That's the kind of player they'd move him for, an overwhelming win.

Not quite. They were talking with a lot of teams over the summer for a possible Simmons, including teams that had no player like Harden. I mean, they were talking with the Pacers and we don't have a lot of top-end talent.

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

I believe you are right in that the Sixers would not have sought a trade for Simmons if his camp had not requested it.

At the same time, I think after that horrible ending to the postseason, they decided internally that they'd be better off trading Simmons for what they feel is a fair return. Had Simmons not driven by his man and put himself in the position to shoot/pass up the shot in that moment, we wouldn't be here (even with his strange postseason line.) That passed up shot and the postgame comments (mainly Doc) was what really set this all off. People point at Embiid but when you listen to his entire interview it's pretty clear he wasn't signaling Ben out. It was just really unfortunate for everyone how this all turned out- I'm sure Ben wishes he just dunked the ball, Doc wishes he answered the postgame interview differently, but in any case here we are.

All this drama right now, however, is mainly because the Sixers are asking for more than other teams are willing to give up for Simmons.

[Nuntius]

So basically you're saying the only reason the Pacers don't trade all their players is because none have requested it, and if 1 or more requested it, you'd suggest immediately trading them, since it's already established there are players that exist which the Pacers would trade at least one of their players for.

I am saying that if a current Pacer requested a trade and the Pacers also wanted to trade him then, yes, we shouldn't be holding out and we should be looking to actively trade them.

Again, I believe that the Sixers want to trade him. It makes sense for them to trade him. He doesn't freaking fit with their star at all.

Well we already established that both Philly and Indy are willing (want as you put it) to trade anyone outside of Embiid for a superstar, so all Pacers fit the same criteria as Simmons.

Sure and if the Pacers were out there asking for a bazillion of picks for one of our players, I'd be criticizing them as well

[dhsilv2]

Not quite. They were talking with a lot of teams over the summer for a possible Simmons, including teams that had no player like Harden. I mean, they were talking with the Pacers and we don't have a lot of top-end talent.

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

I believe you are right in that the Sixers would not have sought a trade for Simmons if his camp had not requested it.

At the same time, I think after that horrible ending to the postseason, they decided internally that they'd be better off trading Simmons for what they feel is a fair return. Had Simmons not driven by his man and put himself in the position to shoot/pass up the shot in that moment, we wouldn't be here (even with his strange postseason line.) That passed up shot and the postgame comments (mainly Doc) was what really set this all off. People point at Embiid but when you listen to his entire interview it's pretty clear he wasn't signaling Ben out. It was just really unfortunate for everyone how this all turned out- I'm sure Ben wishes he just dunked the ball, Doc wishes he answered the postgame interview differently, but in any case here we are.

All this drama right now, however, is mainly because the Sixers are asking for more than other teams are willing to give up for Simmons.

I think the 76ers wanted to run it back with ben hopefully clear headed and not dealing with family issues that were clearly messing with him. that said I'm sure Ben was available for a team looking to unload a true superstar as a piece of a package, which is a pretty good piece given the recent trades we've seen. But Ben was available only if the price was right and the 76ers were the team ready to act fast on a deal. Philly even despite Ben's issues last year in the playoffs, looked poised to make a real run before Danny Green got hurt, which I know will lead to people losing their proverbial crap because how dare a point out that a "role player" matters in the playoffs where only stars can matter and everyone who's a role player is equally useless...and yet philly didn't look the same once Green went down.

[Nuntius]

That was AFTER a trade demand. Come on man...

And before that was the Harden and the team letting the world know that they don't view Simmons as a player who can lead them to a title. We're going in circles here, my friend.

The 76ers showed no serious interest in making a deal for the Ben before there request to leave. After that they have been very clear that they want are star or a massive package of players and picks. Which one would have to assume is to then flip for said star they want.

Which is a riduculous demand for a player of Simmons' caliber. He isn't good enough to get that kind of return.

This is the same thing as Leonard, Harden and AD. They started talking trades once they felt they had to. The difference is that even in trade talks, the 76ers don't seem to want to make a move unless it's an obvious win. Those other teams by now had already taken lesser deals.

I 100% disagree. In these situations, we were talking about by far the best player on the team. The face of the franchise. The player that the team was built around. Those aren't the case with Simmons. Embiid is by far the best player on the team, not Simmons. Simmons is the 2nd best player and, offensively, he's the 3rd option at best (a lot of times he's the 4th or even 5th option).

These teams had every reason to want to keep these guys since they were their win conditions. Simmons isn't Philly's win condition. If anything, he's often been the detriment to the team winning.

So we're back to my point. The 76ers clearly are not acting like they want to trade Simmons as they clearly value him EXTREMELY highly, just like Leonard and AD were valued.

You're making my point for me dude. Everything you're saying goes against your statement that philly and ben mutually want to part ways. The 76ers still value Ben beyond what the market seem to value him at, which goes back to. THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRADE HIM.

They do want to trade him, though. Morey is just asking for way too much because that's what Morey always does. He is afraid to "lose a trade". He wants to win every trade by a mile, just like Ainge.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

I don't understand why this is an acceptable position, even if it's based on literally nothing, while thinking that Ben is using the excuse of mental health to ensure a consistent cashflow isn't.

Because if that assumption is inaccurate

Spoiler:

(the assumption that Ben's faking mental illness)

, you are helping push a stigma that is damaging to a most vulnerable group. And there is no indication that Ben is faking that illness, because anyone with Ben's family problem would very likely suffer mentally (and perhaps even more so in Ben's case, because the step-brother is directly involved in his career).

What about the fact that, if the assumption is accurate, Ben is pushing the stigma even further making ordinary people leaving these kinds of conditions with less credibility?

There is no indication that the assumption is accurate, so good luck proving it....

[dhsilv2]

And before that was the Harden and the team letting the world know that they don't view Simmons as a player who can lead them to a title. We're going in circles here, my friend.



Which is a riduculous demand for a player of Simmons' caliber. He isn't good enough to get that kind of return.



I 100% disagree. In these situations, we were talking about by far the best player on the team. The face of the franchise. The player that the team was built around. Those aren't the case with Simmons. Embiid is by far the best player on the team, not Simmons. Simmons is the 2nd best player and, offensively, he's the 3rd option at best (a lot of times he's the 4th or even 5th option).

These teams had every reason to want to keep these guys since they were their win conditions. Simmons isn't Philly's win condition. If anything, he's often been the detriment to the team winning.

So we're back to my point. The 76ers clearly are not acting like they want to trade Simmons as they clearly value him EXTREMELY highly, just like Leonard and AD were valued.

You're making my point for me dude. Everything you're saying goes against your statement that philly and ben mutually want to part ways. The 76ers still value Ben beyond what the market seem to value him at, which goes back to. THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRADE HIM.

They do want to trade him, though. Morey is just asking for way too much because that's what Morey always does. He is afraid to "lose a trade". He wants to win every trade by a mile, just like Ainge.

Again your stance is that they wanted to trade him BEFORE he demanded one. And now based on their actions, they are pricing Ben as if they feel he's worth more to them than other teams, which seems support the same view that a spurs would have had about Leonard or NO with AD.

Meanwhile they have made every statement that they want him playing for him still.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

Sure, every team would trade any player if they overhwelmingly won the trade. Everyone would trade their star for a LeBron, a KD or a Doncic. That's a given.

That said, I do not believe that the situations in question are analogous. And they're not analogous, simply because Simmons isn't as good as an AD, a PG or a Kawhi. He isn't at that level. Demanding superstar returns for a player that is, at best, a star with some major holes in his game doesn't make much sense to me.

Philly probably know Simmons will be better than AD, PG and Kawhi. He made the 3rd Team All-NBA last year, and finished 2nd in DPOY votes this year. They probably assume he'll have a half-decent jump shot eventually (and they watch him shoot in practice, so they'd know), and that would put him above just about everybody in the NBA, considering what he's already done without even attempted shots.... and drops 42 at Utah in his sleep.

I have agreed with most of your posts throughout this thread, especially when it comes to mental health, and I do thank you for sharing some of your insights about what happened to Ben's family last year (I was unaware of that before I read this thread). That said, our evaluations of Simmons couldn't be any more different.

That's not my evaluation its just Philly's potential evaluation. It would be dependent on Simmons having a half-decent jump shot, and I haven't seen enough of him shooting to know that.

But if Philly has assessed that, having watched him practice everyday for years - that he's a great shooter in practice or shows promise - that would be something only Philly's coaching staff or front office could assess.

They may think its highly unlikely, because they may not believe he'll ever want to attempt shots in games, but they may be aware that if he ever decided to attempt shots that he'd become a half-decent shooter (for another team).....and they would feel like fools if that happened, unless they trade him for a very big piece.

My evaluation is that I'd want to see him shoot with his right-hand, before evaluating his potential. JJ Redick said he mentioned it to Simmons, but decided not to push Simmons on that idea, because he saw that Simmons was shooting well-enough with his left-hand. Redick probably made a huge mistake, and that's no surprise, because Redick sounds extremely unwise in his podcast. I think shooting with his right-hand may be the key psychologically to Simmons attempting more shots, not just making shots.

[Nuntius]

So we're back to my point. The 76ers clearly are not acting like they want to trade Simmons as they clearly value him EXTREMELY highly, just like Leonard and AD were valued.

You're making my point for me dude. Everything you're saying goes against your statement that philly and ben mutually want to part ways. The 76ers still value Ben beyond what the market seem to value him at, which goes back to. THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRADE HIM.

They do want to trade him, though. Morey is just asking for way too much because that's what Morey always does. He is afraid to "lose a trade". He wants to win every trade by a mile, just like Ainge.

Again your stance is that they wanted to trade him BEFORE he demanded one. And now based on their actions, they are pricing Ben as if they feel he's worth more to them than other teams, which seems support the same view that a spurs would have had about Leonard or NO with AD.

Meanwhile they have made every statement that they want him playing for him still.

No. My stance is that the Sixers want to trade him. Now or before, makes no difference to me.

In the other situations we were talking about, we saw all of these teams desperately trying to keep these players. They tried trading other players so they could build a team fully around them, they asked for more time from these players, one more chance to succeed et cetera. In all of these case, it was clear that the teams were forced to trade the players against their will.

That's not the case here, imo. Philly doesn't seem to want anything to do with Simmons anymore. The bridges are burned, they want him gone (and they should want him gone).

[Nuntius]

Philly probably know Simmons will be better than AD, PG and Kawhi. He made the 3rd Team All-NBA last year, and finished 2nd in DPOY votes this year. They probably assume he'll have a half-decent jump shot eventually (and they watch him shoot in practice, so they'd know), and that would put him above just about everybody in the NBA, considering what he's already done without even attempted shots.... and drops 42 at Utah in his sleep.

I have agreed with most of your posts throughout this thread, especially when it comes to mental health, and I do thank you for sharing some of your insights about what happened to Ben's family last year (I was unaware of that before I read this thread). That said, our evaluations of Simmons couldn't be any more different.

That's not my evaluation its just Philly's potential evaluation. It would be dependent on Simmons having a half-decent jump shot, and I haven't seen enough of him shooting to know that.

But if Philly has assessed that, having watched him practice everyday for years - that he's a great shooter in practice or shows promise - that would be something only Philly's coaching staff or front office could assess.

They may think its highly unlikely, because they may not believe he'll ever want to attempt shots in games, but they may be aware that if he ever decided to attempt shots that he'd become a half-decent shooter (for another team).....and they would feel like fools if that happened, unless they trade him for a very big piece.

My evaluation is that I'd want to see him shoot with his right-hand, before evaluating his potential. JJ Redick said he mentioned it to Simmons, but decided not to push Simmons on that idea, because he saw that Simmons was shooting well-enough with his left-hand. Redick probably made a huge mistake, and that's no surprise, because Redick sounds extremely unwise in his podcast. I think shooting with his right-hand may be the key psychologically to Simmons attempting more shots, not just making shots.

The team definitely knows more than us, fans, but there is an overwhelming amount of data that points to Simmons actually regressing as a shooter over the years instead of progressing. Could he still turn it around? Sure, crazier things have happened but I wouldn't bet on it.

Regardless, though, my evaluation of Simmons isn't all that relevant to this thread. It's a different discussion.

[dhsilv2]

They do want to trade him, though. Morey is just asking for way too much because that's what Morey always does. He is afraid to "lose a trade". He wants to win every trade by a mile, just like Ainge.

Again your stance is that they wanted to trade him BEFORE he demanded one. And now based on their actions, they are pricing Ben as if they feel he's worth more to them than other teams, which seems support the same view that a spurs would have had about Leonard or NO with AD.

Meanwhile they have made every statement that they want him playing for him still.

No. My stance is that the Sixers want to trade him. Now or before, makes no difference to me.

In the other situations we were talking about, we saw all of these teams desperately trying to keep these players. They tried trading other players so they could build a team fully around them, they asked for more time from these players, one more chance to succeed et cetera. In all of these case, it was clear that the teams were forced to trade the players against their will.

That's not the case here, imo. Philly doesn't seem to want anything to do with Simmons anymore. The bridges are burned, they want him gone (and they should want him gone).

I've never seen a team seemingly try harder to keep a player...but whatever man. We'll agree to disagree I suppose given you can't seem to show any reason why we should ignore everything being said AND done by the 76ers...

[Dominator83]

They should have taken the offer of Brogdan and a 1st. Even at the time I was scratching my head as to why they didn't. Brogdan last season averaged 21-5-5 on good efficiency. And is pretty much doing the same this year. Imagine how good the Sixers would be right now if you added Brogdan to the fold. The 1st was icing on the cake. I would have taken that and ran.

[DusterBuster]

They should have taken the offer of Brogdan and a 1st. Even at the time I was scratching my head as to why they didn't. Brogdan last season averaged 21-5-5 on good efficiency. And is pretty much doing the same this year. Imagine how good the Sixers would be right now if you added Brogdan to the fold. The 1st was icing on the cake. I would have taken that and ran.

They had plenty of quality players that would have been huge help for them had they not gone full lunatics.

[Pointgod]

And before that was the Harden and the team letting the world know that they don't view Simmons as a player who can lead them to a title. We're going in circles here, my friend.



Which is a riduculous demand for a player of Simmons' caliber. He isn't good enough to get that kind of return.



I 100% disagree. In these situations, we were talking about by far the best player on the team. The face of the franchise. The player that the team was built around. Those aren't the case with Simmons. Embiid is by far the best player on the team, not Simmons. Simmons is the 2nd best player and, offensively, he's the 3rd option at best (a lot of times he's the 4th or even 5th option).

These teams had every reason to want to keep these guys since they were their win conditions. Simmons isn't Philly's win condition. If anything, he's often been the detriment to the team winning.

So we're back to my point. The 76ers clearly are not acting like they want to trade Simmons as they clearly value him EXTREMELY highly, just like Leonard and AD were valued.

You're making my point for me dude. Everything you're saying goes against your statement that philly and ben mutually want to part ways. The 76ers still value Ben beyond what the market seem to value him at, which goes back to. THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRADE HIM.

They do want to trade him, though. Morey is just asking for way too much because that's what Morey always does. He is afraid to "lose a trade". He wants to win every trade by a mile, just like Ainge.

All that really needs to be said. Morey could have gotten his highest return during the draft. He kept posturing throughout the offseason and other teams simply moved on. Everything that comes from Morey moving forward is bull because he knows he missed his window and now he doesn’t want to look like a fool. However to be fair to him I think he’s waiting till Dec 15th where contracts signed in the summer can be moved, but who knows where the situation will be at that point.

[NatiboyB]

How come people speak with so much confidence that Morey turned down all of these great trade offers from other teams and that teams were clamoring all over the NBA to bring Simmons in. When basically the one thing we know for sure is that the 76ers wanted to bring Harden in but the Rockets valued the package they received more than Ben Simmons? Everything else involving Morey wanting too much or other teams not offering enough is all heresy. Ask yourself would you really want to give up good value for Ben Simmons?

[Pointgod]

They should have taken the offer of Brogdan and a 1st. Even at the time I was scratching my head as to why they didn't. Brogdan last season averaged 21-5-5 on good efficiency. And is pretty much doing the same this year. Imagine how good the Sixers would be right now if you added Brogdan to the fold. The 1st was icing on the cake. I would have taken that and ran.

Not even just Brogdan, but they could have gotten Lavert as well and probably extract additional value in the form of picks. And there’s literally no rule that says you cant repackage those players with picks at the deadline if his unicorn superstar becomes available.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

I have agreed with most of your posts throughout this thread, especially when it comes to mental health, and I do thank you for sharing some of your insights about what happened to Ben's family last year (I was unaware of that before I read this thread). That said, our evaluations of Simmons couldn't be any more different.

That's not my evaluation its just Philly's potential evaluation. It would be dependent on Simmons having a half-decent jump shot, and I haven't seen enough of him shooting to know that.

But if Philly has assessed that, having watched him practice everyday for years - that he's a great shooter in practice or shows promise - that would be something only Philly's coaching staff or front office could assess.

They may think its highly unlikely, because they may not believe he'll ever want to attempt shots in games, but they may be aware that if he ever decided to attempt shots that he'd become a half-decent shooter (for another team).....and they would feel like fools if that happened, unless they trade him for a very big piece.

My evaluation is that I'd want to see him shoot with his right-hand, before evaluating his potential. JJ Redick said he mentioned it to Simmons, but decided not to push Simmons on that idea, because he saw that Simmons was shooting well-enough with his left-hand. Redick probably made a huge mistake, and that's no surprise, because Redick sounds extremely unwise in his podcast. I think shooting with his right-hand may be the key psychologically to Simmons attempting more shots, not just making shots.

The team definitely knows more than us, fans, but there is an overwhelming amount of data that points to Simmons actually regressing as a shooter over the years instead of progressing. Could he still turn it around? Sure, crazier things have happened but I wouldn't bet on it.

Regardless, though, my evaluation of Simmons isn't all that relevant to this thread. It's a different discussion.

The game data is irrelevant, because he was hardly attempting any shots in his earlier years either (even though he was attempting more). And nearly all his 3-point-attempts were from halfcourt on buzzers.
The only relevant data (in terms of measuring his shooting skills) is in practice, because he doesn't have a psychological problem in practice.
One thing is for sure, the Ben Simmons you see in games has nothing to do with the Ben Simmons in practice.
Neither of us would make bets, because neither of us can measure his shooting skill or forecast what his right-hand can do.

[Nuntius]

Again your stance is that they wanted to trade him BEFORE he demanded one. And now based on their actions, they are pricing Ben as if they feel he's worth more to them than other teams, which seems support the same view that a spurs would have had about Leonard or NO with AD.

Meanwhile they have made every statement that they want him playing for him still.

No. My stance is that the Sixers want to trade him. Now or before, makes no difference to me.

In the other situations we were talking about, we saw all of these teams desperately trying to keep these players. They tried trading other players so they could build a team fully around them, they asked for more time from these players, one more chance to succeed et cetera. In all of these case, it was clear that the teams were forced to trade the players against their will.

That's not the case here, imo. Philly doesn't seem to want anything to do with Simmons anymore. The bridges are burned, they want him gone (and they should want him gone).

I've never seen a team seemingly try harder to keep a player...but whatever man. We'll agree to disagree I suppose given you can't seem to show any reason why we should ignore everything being said AND done by the 76ers...

I have never seen a team throw their supposed star under the bus so hard but, yeah, we can definitely agree to disagree.

[Nuntius]

That's not my evaluation its just Philly's potential evaluation. It would be dependent on Simmons having a half-decent jump shot, and I haven't seen enough of him shooting to know that.

But if Philly has assessed that, having watched him practice everyday for years - that he's a great shooter in practice or shows promise - that would be something only Philly's coaching staff or front office could assess.

They may think its highly unlikely, because they may not believe he'll ever want to attempt shots in games, but they may be aware that if he ever decided to attempt shots that he'd become a half-decent shooter (for another team).....and they would feel like fools if that happened, unless they trade him for a very big piece.

My evaluation is that I'd want to see him shoot with his right-hand, before evaluating his potential. JJ Redick said he mentioned it to Simmons, but decided not to push Simmons on that idea, because he saw that Simmons was shooting well-enough with his left-hand. Redick probably made a huge mistake, and that's no surprise, because Redick sounds extremely unwise in his podcast. I think shooting with his right-hand may be the key psychologically to Simmons attempting more shots, not just making shots.

The team definitely knows more than us, fans, but there is an overwhelming amount of data that points to Simmons actually regressing as a shooter over the years instead of progressing. Could he still turn it around? Sure, crazier things have happened but I wouldn't bet on it.

Regardless, though, my evaluation of Simmons isn't all that relevant to this thread. It's a different discussion.

The game data is irrelevant, because he was hardly attempting any shots in his earlier years either (even though he was attempting more). And nearly all his 3-point-attempts were from halfcourt on buzzers.
The only relevant data (in terms of measuring his shooting skills) is in practice, because he doesn't have a psychological problem in practice.
One thing is for sure, the Ben Simmons you see in games has nothing to do with the Ben Simmons in practice.
Neither of us would make bets, because neither of us can measure his shooting skill or forecast what his right-hand can do.

I do not believe the game data to be irrelevant at all. If a player cannot reproduce a skill in game then they don't really have that skill. It's like having a 20 dollar bill that you can never, ever use. And when I'm talking about shooting, I'm not even talking just about 3s. I believe that Simmons would be fine if he simply had an 18-foot jumper. Really, any kind of scoring outside the restricted area. But he simply doesn't so far.

[YogurtProducer]

The team definitely knows more than us, fans, but there is an overwhelming amount of data that points to Simmons actually regressing as a shooter over the years instead of progressing. Could he still turn it around? Sure, crazier things have happened but I wouldn't bet on it.

Regardless, though, my evaluation of Simmons isn't all that relevant to this thread. It's a different discussion.

The game data is irrelevant, because he was hardly attempting any shots in his earlier years either (even though he was attempting more). And nearly all his 3-point-attempts were from halfcourt on buzzers.
The only relevant data (in terms of measuring his shooting skills) is in practice, because he doesn't have a psychological problem in practice.
One thing is for sure, the Ben Simmons you see in games has nothing to do with the Ben Simmons in practice.
Neither of us would make bets, because neither of us can measure his shooting skill or forecast what his right-hand can do.

I do not believe the game data to be irrelevant at all. If a player cannot reproduce a skill in game then they don't really have that skill. It's like having a 20 dollar bill that you can never, ever use. And when I'm talking about shooting, I'm not even talking just about 3s. I believe that Simmons would be fine if he simply had an 18-foot jumper. Really, any kind of scoring outside the restricted area. But he simply doesn't so far.

I had this argument about Simmons in a fantasy league I am in - there is a subset of Philly (or not Philly?) fans who think Philly is explicitly holding Simmons back and he actually can shoot and has a bunch of tricks in his bag and he simply does not use them because Philly is mean to him??? But somehow Embiid has grown in the same time period.

It is just not rational thinking