Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[nate33]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

I don't think dropping the protection provides any meaningful incentive for OKC. What are the chances that the protection provisions even come into play at this point? The pick is top 14 protected in 2023. With the way the team is winning now, I think it's pretty likely that we stay out of the bottom 14. Or even if we did, we would finish maybe in the 12th position or so. Our odds of landing in the top 3 are really small.

OKC would be absorbing $64M of Bertans salary for nothing, or to move up maybe 2 spots in the draft (from 14 to 12 or so).

[gambitx777]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

I've talked about this a ton. I think they only do it if we unprotect the pick. Not top 1 unfortunately. Which is what ever. And it's kind of borderline with me on adding Bryant. I think you really gotta consider what your options are here. If OKC would just take bertans for unprotecting the pick then just do that. That frees up a lot of tax room going forward and you can weigh your options with Bryant closer to the dead line.

You could in theory build line ups around having gafford/Bryant/ Trez rotating through 5-4 duty and Kuslz/Rui/ deni moving around 4-3 duty which can be done but that pushes either KCP and Kispert into back up SG territory which would mean holiday and Nato are strictly PG back ups now. I think you can fanegle a 6 man rotation at 3-5 maybe but it's more than likely Kispert/KCP to lose the most minutes here.

Now moving Bryant as sweetener for taking bertans and taking back favors to be a break glass Incase of emergency big foxes the issue about who's gonna lose minutes once Bryant and Rui both come back. But I think we can also manage that. Idk I'm open. To it and it seems fair but I think you push for just unprotecting the pick to take bertans first and only add Bryant in if needed, then the favors swap almost has to happen for cap reasons I think.

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[mhd]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

I don't think dropping the protection provides any meaningful incentive for OKC. What are the chances that the protection provisions even come into play at this point? The pick is top 14 protected in 2023. With the way the team is winning now, I think it's pretty likely that we stay out of the bottom 14. Or even if we did, we would finish maybe in the 12th position or so. Our odds of landing in the top 3 are really small.

OKC would be absorbing $64M of Bertans salary for nothing, or to move up maybe 2 spots in the draft (from 14 to 12 or so).

The Kemba trade is a good barometer of the asking price for dumping a long-term deal. Kemba had 2 years 73 million left. After this year, Bertans has 3 years, 49 million left. If we want to dump Bertans, it'll cost our 2022 1st rounder (deal would have to be done on draft day to avoid the Sepian rule).

[gambitx777]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

I don't think dropping the protection provides any meaningful incentive for OKC. What are the chances that the protection provisions even come into play at this point? The pick is top 14 protected in 2023. With the way the team is winning now, I think it's pretty likely that we stay out of the bottom 14. Or even if we did, we would finish maybe in the 12th position or so. Our odds of landing in the top 3 are really small.

OKC would be absorbing $64M of Bertans salary for nothing, or to move up maybe 2 spots in the draft (from 14 to 12 or so).

I don't agree unprotected firsts are generally far more valuable than protected ones no matter what.
Beal could flip on a dime and demand out injuries could happen, someone could get suspended, or die, or hold out or decide they don't wanna play or something and boom that protected pick that a team wouldn't get till next year or the year after could very well be a top ten or better.

Now I'm not saying that unprotecting that pick could for sure be enough for them to take on bertans. But it's more valuable than you think. We might have to add Bryant or something maybe to add value maybe.

Also OKC is clearly in the asset flipping racket. They take on players for picks or young players then attempt to rehab said player to get more value. Ever year that Deal goes it becomes less bad and if he shoots well and staying on the floor, he is a very useful player. There is an early termination option during the last year so it's really on 33 mill left after this year and if kep it's only fully guaranteed for 5 mill in that last year of he plays more than 75% of games in 2023.

I think it's an option, and maybe one we can pull off with out using Bryant

Either
Bertans flat out for unprotecting that pick and cash
Or
Bertans, Bryant, unprotecting that pick and cash
For
Favors.

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[payitforward]

The best -- the very very best -- we can hope for is to trade Bertans for a slightly shorter contract. That would depend on his 3pt % showing a burst as we get close to the deadline -- & on there being a team that thinks his shooting puts a championship within their grasp this year.

We cannot afford to give up any R1 picks. Period. Or any R2 picks either -- of the few we have.

[nate33]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

I don't think dropping the protection provides any meaningful incentive for OKC. What are the chances that the protection provisions even come into play at this point? The pick is top 14 protected in 2023. With the way the team is winning now, I think it's pretty likely that we stay out of the bottom 14. Or even if we did, we would finish maybe in the 12th position or so. Our odds of landing in the top 3 are really small.

OKC would be absorbing $64M of Bertans salary for nothing, or to move up maybe 2 spots in the draft (from 14 to 12 or so).

The Kemba trade is a good barometer of the asking price for dumping a long-term deal. Kemba had 2 years 73 million left. After this year, Bertans has 3 years, 49 million left. If we want to dump Bertans, it'll cost our 2022 1st rounder (deal would have to be done on draft day to avoid the Sepian rule).

You have to factor the actual value of the player too.

Kemba was such a negative value because he was making $36M a year and was honestly only worth maybe $6M a year as a player. He's basically backup PG at this point. So he represents roughly $30M in wasted money per year, or $60M total.

Bertans is being paid $16M a year and is probably worth about $10M a year as a legit floor stretcher at the PF position who always has incredible on/off numbers. So he's about $6M a year of wasted money a year, or $18M total.

[payitforward]

Wait... I just noticed that OKC has 2 traded player exceptions, amounting to almost $22.4m, that expire right around the trade deadline in February.

Does this help? Or motivate them in any way?

[mhd]

I don't think dropping the protection provides any meaningful incentive for OKC. What are the chances that the protection provisions even come into play at this point? The pick is top 14 protected in 2023. With the way the team is winning now, I think it's pretty likely that we stay out of the bottom 14. Or even if we did, we would finish maybe in the 12th position or so. Our odds of landing in the top 3 are really small.

OKC would be absorbing $64M of Bertans salary for nothing, or to move up maybe 2 spots in the draft (from 14 to 12 or so).

The Kemba trade is a good barometer of the asking price for dumping a long-term deal. Kemba had 2 years 73 million left. After this year, Bertans has 3 years, 49 million left. If we want to dump Bertans, it'll cost our 2022 1st rounder (deal would have to be done on draft day to avoid the Sepian rule).

You have to factor the actual value of the player too.

Kemba was such a negative value because he was making $36M a year and was honestly only worth maybe $6M a year as a player. He's basically backup PG at this point. So he represents roughly $30M in wasted money per year, or $60M total.

Bertans is being paid $16M a year and is probably worth about $10M a year as a legit floor stretcher at the PF position who always has incredible on/off numbers. So he's about $6M a year of wasted money a year, or $18M total.

I wonder if we could get a team to just trade for him while we don't have to give up additional assets? His floor spacing could surely help teams. Heck, even if he's missing, he does open up lanes for our offense.

[nate33]

Wait... I just noticed that OKC has 2 traded player exceptions, amounting to almost $22.4m, that expire right around the trade deadline in February.

Does this help? Or motivate them in any way?

You can't combine TPE's to absorb one big contract, but Fournier's TPE alone is big enough to absorb Bertans. I don't see Orlando doing it without substantial incentive though.

[J-Ves]

If trading Bertans has to be done, then OKC is obviously the landing place. It will stink, but if we drop protections on our 1st rounder that they have the rights to (from the Wall trade), then a simple Bertans for Favors swap works.

What about this deal:
Wiz trade Bryant+Bertans+dropping our protections to the 2023 1st (make it top 1 protected) for Favors+OKC's 2022 2nd rounder?

With the way Trez is playing, Bryant isn't going to get PT when he comes back (which he'd want since he's a pending FA). Favors is a vet center who can be an emergency banger against the Jokic/Embiid types. Bertans gives us spacing (even if he's been shooting poorly in a small sample size), and he'd actually help OKC LOL.

Nope. To dump Bertans it will take dropping the protections on the 2023 first rounder and a future first or equivalent asset. You don’t get to dump two terrible contracts with one asset.

[gambitx777]

Wait... I just noticed that OKC has 2 traded player exceptions, amounting to almost $22.4m, that expire right around the trade deadline in February.

Does this help? Or motivate them in any way?

Them being 34.2 mill under the cap, not the tax the cap . They have room to take on multiple contracts for assets. So yes, it does infact help because they don't have to pick and choose their spots when it comes to waiting for the best deal, they can do it multiple times.

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[payitforward]

Wait... I just noticed that OKC has 2 traded player exceptions, amounting to almost $22.4m, that expire right around the trade deadline in February.

Does this help? Or motivate them in any way?

You can't combine TPE's to absorb one big contract, but Fournier's TPE alone is big enough to absorb Bertans. I don't see Orlando doing it without substantial incentive though.

It was OKC I was pointing at -- one of those TPEs is @$13m. But... I still don't see their motivation. Or Orlando's for that matter.

[nate33]

A San Antonio poster on the Trade Board is shopping for a PF.

I really think it would make a ton of sense to trade Rui for one of Devin Vassell or Keldon Johnson. I prefer Vassell because he is younger and has an extra year on his rookie deal.

It would really round out the team nicely with a quality veteran at every position and a developing young understudy alongside him:

PG Dinwiddie - Holiday
SG Beal - Kispert
SF KCP - Vassell
PF Kuzma - Avdija
C Harrell - Gafford/Bryant

[payitforward]

Maybe, just maybe, there could have been a trade of Rui for Keldon Johnson straight up at the end of last year, when Rui had a few good games -- though I wouldn't be sure of it -- but I can't imagine SA would give Johnson for him now. Vassell would be even less likely.

[Ruzious]

Maybe, just maybe, there could have been a trade of Rui for Keldon Johnson straight up at the end of last year, when Rui had a few good games -- though I wouldn't be sure of it -- but I can't imagine SA would give Johnson for him now. Vassell would be even less likely.

Agreed - those are 2 valuable properties - Johnson and Vassell. It'd take more than Rui to get them. but it's interesting to hear fans of other teams talk about Rui - he's very highly regarded. Still, he's gotta build back his value before anyone considers giving up anything to get him.

[Dark Faze]

Any thoughts on Thomas Bryant for Okongwu? Okongwu is injured for 6 months and probably won't offer much for the Hawks post season run as a result. Hawks have responded by going small, with no real backup at C.

It's scary thinking what a healthy TB could give to that team, but at the same time getting back a guy most of us liked in Okongwu seems like good value for a player that might walk this summer.

[nate33]

Maybe, just maybe, there could have been a trade of Rui for Keldon Johnson straight up at the end of last year, when Rui had a few good games -- though I wouldn't be sure of it -- but I can't imagine SA would give Johnson for him now. Vassell would be even less likely.

Agreed - those are 2 valuable properties - Johnson and Vassell. It'd take more than Rui to get them. but it's interesting to hear fans of other teams talk about Rui - he's very highly regarded. Still, he's gotta build back his value before anyone considers giving up anything to get him.

I don't know if it would take more than Rui.

You guys (particularly PIF) are too caught up in numbers and not in perception. The fact is, Rui logged the third most minutes on a playoff team last year. That gives him genuine credibility. He is young and he certainly looks the part of a good basketball player with his perfect physique and exceptional athleticism. Obviously, he would have to get back on the court to have any trade value, but I think the Rui of late last season could bring back value like this.

[nate33]

Any thoughts on Thomas Bryant for Okongwu? Okongwu is injured for 6 months and probably won't offer much for the Hawks post season run as a result. Hawks have responded by going small, with no real backup at C.

It's scary thinking what a healthy TB could give to that team, but at the same time getting back a guy most of us liked in Okongwu seems like good value for a player that might walk this summer.

Sure. I'd do it because I would trade Bryant for any first round pick (or equivalent value) since I think it's likely we won't be retaining him. I don't particularly care for the fit of Okongwu, but an asset is an asset.

[mhd]

It sounds like Rui isn't going to be back anytime soon. If that is the case, then we should just keep Bertans for the time being and let him rehab his value. Last night is a perfect example of where Bertans could have helped (the 2nd quarter). Him getting hot can easily swing a game. He's one of the few guys on the team who can carry the team's offense for short spurts.

[gambitx777]

I have no interest in trading Rui right now but I would be interested in bertans for Derrick white the contracts are close and the fit works better for both teams

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