2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 2)

[GeorgeSears]

It looks like it's going to come down to Barnes and Mobley. If the Cavs make the playoffs, which appears to be likely, Mobley's probably getting it and he'll deserve it too.

[Duffman100]

Not the best game for Barnes, he kind of choked the game away at the end, but he still had a solid game.

18 points
8 rebounds
2 assists

With that being said I'm pleasantly surprised with Barnes. Despite having no calls run for him, he's been able to score and take over at times.

Over his past 9 games he's averaging

16.1 Points
8.2 rebounds
3.4 assists
1.1 steals
0.6 blocks

The sky is the limit for Barnes.

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

[HiRez]

NBA Rookie Tracker through Nov. 15.

[Bruin]

Not the best game for Barnes, he kind of choked the game away at the end, but he still had a solid game.

18 points
8 rebounds
2 assists

With that being said I'm pleasantly surprised with Barnes. Despite having no calls run for him, he's been able to score and take over at times.

Over his past 9 games he's averaging

16.1 Points
8.2 rebounds
3.4 assists
1.1 steals
0.6 blocks

The sky is the limit for Barnes.

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

Svi missing that wide open layup that he could’ve just dunked was so frustrating. Was an amazing find by Scottie

[MoneyTalks41890]

We will see if Giddey can develop a consistent jumper, I think his form has room for improvement, but at 19 he's already an elite passer and rebounder. And his assist totals would be much higher if he had decent teammates.

[NRSV]

Making Mobley play center seems ill-advised in hindsight.

[niQ]

Not the best game for Barnes, he kind of choked the game away at the end, but he still had a solid game.

18 points
8 rebounds
2 assists

With that being said I'm pleasantly surprised with Barnes. Despite having no calls run for him, he's been able to score and take over at times.

Over his past 9 games he's averaging

16.1 Points
8.2 rebounds
3.4 assists
1.1 steals
0.6 blocks

The sky is the limit for Barnes.

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

lol. they're saying something similar with Giddey. Pretty much he'd get a LOT more assists if his teammates stop bricking them.

Giddey has been pretty good so far. Once his shots start falling he'll be a legit triple double threat. I'm pretty sure we'll see at least one or more this season.

[nikster]

Not the best game for Barnes, he kind of choked the game away at the end, but he still had a solid game.

18 points
8 rebounds
2 assists

With that being said I'm pleasantly surprised with Barnes. Despite having no calls run for him, he's been able to score and take over at times.

Over his past 9 games he's averaging

16.1 Points
8.2 rebounds
3.4 assists
1.1 steals
0.6 blocks

The sky is the limit for Barnes.

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

lol. they're saying something similar with Giddey. Pretty much he'd get a LOT more assists if his teammates stop bricking them.

Giddey has been pretty good so far. Once his shots start falling he'll be a legit triple double threat. I'm pretty sure we'll see at least one or more this season.

So NBA tracks potential assists. Breakdown for the other picks:
Barnes gets 2.8 assists and 6.2 potential assists, so about 43% of his potential assists are converted.
Giddey is 6.2/11.0= 56%
Cade 3.6/8.1= 44.4%
Suggs 3.5/8.1= 43%
Green 2.6/5.0= 52%
Mobley 2.5/4.8=52%

Kinda surprising Barnes is so low cause Raptors are one of the better teams, but they have been pretty trash in the halfcourt offense

[Bruin]

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

lol. they're saying something similar with Giddey. Pretty much he'd get a LOT more assists if his teammates stop bricking them.

Giddey has been pretty good so far. Once his shots start falling he'll be a legit triple double threat. I'm pretty sure we'll see at least one or more this season.

So NBA tracks potential assists. Breakdown for the other picks:
Barnes gets 2.8 assists and 6.2 potential assists, so about 43% of his potential assists are converted.
Giddey is 6.2/11.0= 56%
Cade 3.6/8.1= 44.4%
Suggs 3.5/8.1= 43%
Green 2.6/5.0= 52%
Mobley 2.5/4.8=52%

Kinda surprising Barnes is so low cause Raptors are one of the better teams, but they have been pretty trash in the halfcourt offense

Our offense is trash and the eye test confirms this. Scottie has made several great passes for players to miss wide open layups

[DCasey91]

I know against us Giddey dished out six easy looks and all the wings did a premium Danny Green shot (clanker). Now if you’ve watched Green you know what I’m talking about (worst looking shots when he misses, but flushes hard ones you’d swear he shoots 25% from 3 but nope 40% lol). He knows how to open up a defense it’s the shooting that’s a work in progress. Will be a top ten passer in the comp (imo he is right now).

[yoyoboy]

Not all potential assists are created equal though. The passer impacts the quality of the shot and the likelihood it goes in. Cavs fans made the same argument with Sexton, saying teammates were just missing shots he created for them, and yet Garland never seemed to have the same issue passing to the same guys. Whether you're hitting guys for layups versus outside shots, the timing of your delivery, the accuracy of the pass, how late in the shot clock you're making the pass...all those factors make a difference. You can't just look at two guys' assist/potential assist ratio and say one guy is luckier because teammates are hitting shots off his passes at a greater rate.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I know against us Giddey dished out six easy looks and all the wings did a premium Danny Green shot (clanker). Now if you’ve watched Green you know what I’m talking about (worst looking shots when he misses, but flushes hard ones you’d swear he shoots 25% from 3 but nope 40% lol). He knows how to open up a defense it’s the shooting that’s a work in progress. Will be a top ten passer in the comp (imo he is right now).

Yeah, it's painful to watch. But conversely if you look at those converted stats above the reason his % isn't worse is that a lot of his passes come out of the pick and roll and expertly find an open big with a defender out of position. Muscala missed a couple of those, but generally doesn't happen often. The outside shots though...

[toooskies]

Making Mobley play center seems ill-advised in hindsight.

I mean, the scouting was 100% correct when it comes to Mobley being an NBA center-- he's not big enough and not strong enough to play there (yet). He's lucky it's just a few week injury.

The Cavs are about to hit the hardest part of their schedule in the coming days, we'll find out how much Mobley has meant to their success as they go against all four of the top seeds in the east (Brooklyn twice) and four of the top five seeds in the West in their next 10 games. Oh, and the Bucks too. (And Orlando.)

[Statlanta]

Seems the thread will pivot towards Barnes/Duarte with occasional sightings from Cade.

[nikster]

Not all potential assists are created equal though. The passer impacts the quality of the shot and the likelihood it goes in. Cavs fans made the same argument with Sexton, saying teammates were just missing shots he created for them, and yet Garland never seemed to have the same issue passing to the same guys. Whether you're hitting guys for layups versus outside shots, the timing of your delivery, the accuracy of the pass, how late in the shot clock you're making the pass...all those factors make a difference. You can't just look at two guys' assist/potential assist ratio and say one guy is luckier because teammates are hitting shots off his passes at a greater rate.

totally agree. Just posted the stats for a reference, of course this kind of context is extremely important.

I do feel that Barnes is one of those whose are suffering from his team in this case. He does tend to do a great job of hitting cutters and open shooters and getting it to them in their spots. Whats been most impressive to me is how he communicates and directs players to move off ball, will give a nod to cut or just point to the open space. Reminds me of Gasol in that way

[HiRez]

Seems the thread will pivot towards Barnes/Duarte with occasional sightings from Cade.

Don't forget Kuminga. He's not on the radar yet but I think he soon will be, he's looked really good in his last few games. That said, his minutes will be limited so he won't have the monster counting stats for a while.

And I think Cunningham and Suggs will rise up quickly, they're not going to shoot that poorly for long.

[ForeverTFC]

Seems the thread will pivot towards Barnes/Duarte with occasional sightings from Cade.

Don't forget Kuminga. He's not on the radar yet but I think he soon will be, he's looked really good in his last few games. That said, his minutes will be limited so he won't have the monster counting stats for a while.

And I think Cunningham and Suggs will rise up quickly, they're not going to shoot that poorly for long.

Barring injury, it doesn't feel like he'll get many minutes to enter the race in any meaningful way.

[MotownMadness]

He could be closer to 4, 4.5 assists if his teammates would stop bricking the open looks he's giving them.

lol. they're saying something similar with Giddey. Pretty much he'd get a LOT more assists if his teammates stop bricking them.

Giddey has been pretty good so far. Once his shots start falling he'll be a legit triple double threat. I'm pretty sure we'll see at least one or more this season.

So NBA tracks potential assists. Breakdown for the other picks:
Barnes gets 2.8 assists and 6.2 potential assists, so about 43% of his potential assists are converted.
Giddey is 6.2/11.0= 56%
Cade 3.6/8.1= 44.4%
Suggs 3.5/8.1= 43%
Green 2.6/5.0= 52%
Mobley 2.5/4.8=52%

Kinda surprising Barnes is so low cause Raptors are one of the better teams, but they have been pretty trash in the halfcourt offense

Didn't know they tracked that, pretty cool

[JonFromVA]

Not all potential assists are created equal though. The passer impacts the quality of the shot and the likelihood it goes in. Cavs fans made the same argument with Sexton, saying teammates were just missing shots he created for them, and yet Garland never seemed to have the same issue passing to the same guys. Whether you're hitting guys for layups versus outside shots, the timing of your delivery, the accuracy of the pass, how late in the shot clock you're making the pass...all those factors make a difference. You can't just look at two guys' assist/potential assist ratio and say one guy is luckier because teammates are hitting shots off his passes at a greater rate.

totally agree. Just posted the stats for a reference, of course this kind of context is extremely important.

I do feel that Barnes is one of those whose are suffering from his team in this case. He does tend to do a great job of hitting cutters and open shooters and getting it to them in their spots. Whats been most impressive to me is how he communicates and directs players to move off ball, will give a nod to cut or just point to the open space. Reminds me of Gasol in that way

Yep, Mobley passing to Jarrett Allen for an easy dunk is a great thing, whereas dishing the ball out to an unguarded Isaac Okoro ... not so much (the way he's been shooting lately). So, the more useful stat would be something like luck adjusted expected TS% on passes, but we're still not accounting for actively good passing/approach.

For all the guys in the league who love to ISO, draw the D, and kick it out to the perimeter for the flashy assist ... the stats will say they created a wide open shot for a teammate; but if said teammate has spent most of the game watching said player dribble the air out of the ball .. how do we adjust for that?

[whitehops]

cade's first three games were clear outliers in terms of performance/efficiency, and in his last five games he's averaging 16/5/4 shooting 7.4 3PA at 40.5% (TS% is .548). that's pretty impressive this early given his role as a lead ball handler. i wouldn't be surprised if he averaged 20/5/5 over the last half of the season.

he still has a lot of things to work on/clean up but he is definitely showing why he was drafted first overall. saddiq bey almost broke the rookie record for 3s made last season and if cade doesn't miss too much more time he should actually break it.