Should we rescue JV from the Pels?

[WaltFrazier]

Who cares. Both are liabilities.

Drummond. Howard. Javale. Top contenders keep picking up veteran C's like this for their bench in recent years, but oh no, not us. Masai knows a better way.

Are we a contender? And they all come off the bench in limited minutes or in Drummonds case, it should be never. Mostly min contracts extending their careeer. And Javel McGee is not similar to the other 3.

I know we aren't the team for veteran C's quite like those. But the games missed by Birch then Achiuwa show we could use another C to step in. I don't want to trade Pascal for a star, just an under the radar younger guy, or vet, who could shore up the interior D. Last season no one ever thought Birch on the Magic bench would be a guy who'd come and play such solid minutes for us. We need one more acquisition like that, which wouldn't cost much.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Who cares. Both are liabilities.

Drummond. Howard. Javale. Top contenders keep picking up veteran C's like this for their bench in recent years, but oh no, not us. Masai knows a better way.

Are we a contender? And they all come off the bench in mimited minutes or in Drummonds case, it should be never. Mostly min contracts extending their careeer. And Javel McGee is not similar to the other 3.

Drummond at $2M to come off of the bench and get offensive rebounding/ rebounding in general would already help the Raptors be a better team overall and he is a big target for PnR and big man to big man passing.

[UcanUwill]

Have you guys heard of the guy named Andre Drummond? JV is like a synonym.

I agree with this except that Drummond is a better rebounder and a bit better on defense.

Masai told JV directly on Open Gym once - "you're better than Drummond."

Thats after he failed to trade Jonas for Drummond, what he supposed to say? I mean Jonas is better than Drummond now, but Masai didnt think that at the time.

[Johnny Bball]

Drummond. Howard. Javale. Top contenders keep picking up veteran C's like this for their bench in recent years, but oh no, not us. Masai knows a better way.

Are we a contender? And they all come off the bench in limited minutes or in Drummonds case, it should be never. Mostly min contracts extending their careeer. And Javel McGee is not similar to the other 3.

I know we aren't the team for veteran C's quite like those. But the games missed by Birch then Achiuwa show we could use another C to step in. I don't want to trade Pascal for a star, just an under the radar younger guy, or vet, who could shore up the interior D. Last season no one ever thought Birch on the Magic bench would be a guy who'd come and play such solid minutes for us. We need one more acquisition like that, which wouldn't cost much.

Just... why?

We aren't competing and you want to trade Siakam for JV why... to fill a gap so we get a few wins then get hammered if we make the playofffs because we traded a far better player away for JV or a backup centre? It's a huge overpay.

Just play Birch, play Achiuwa, play the kids, see where the chips fall. You guys better start to be patient becuase none of what you are all asking for is going to happen this year. Ujiri told you there would be really inconsistent times which means he's not going to be too active.

This year is pretty much a write-off to try and get players better and try to make the playoffs. Which they shoiuld be able to do if Nurse keeps his **** together insctead of doing what he did last night.

[ruckus]

I'd rather get Ingram. The Pels need a backcourt. Dragic, Svi, Boucher + sweetener?

[dhackett1565]

God yes.

If we can make it happen for something like Dragic, Flynn, Achiuwa, a guy like Svi, sure.

If they want picks or a more key piece I can't see us pulling the trigger.

Oh, and yes, JV can be traded, his extension fits into the extend and trade rules.

[tecumseh18]

God yes.

If we can make it happen for something like Dragic, Flynn, Achiuwa, a guy like Svi, sure.

If they want picks or a more key piece I can't see us pulling the trigger.

Oh, and yes, JV can be traded, his extension fits into the extend and trade rules.

So you think it's time to abandon the great experiment and invest significant resources into a traditional C?

I'm of two minds. On the one hand (er ... mind), it's not like opposing Cs are killing us. It's exciting to see our five best players (Fred, Trent and the three long, two-way forwards) out there together.

On the other hand/mind, the Raptors just don't "look" like a full-fledged NBA team right now. Scottie's defence is not yet as advertised (Suggs was and is a better defender, but only against 6' 4" and smaller players). We look like a hockey team killing a power play.

[OhCanada1091]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

[OakleyDokely]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

Why would we add a 30 year old during a rebuild though?

If we were a high seed, it might make sense to give up assets for him, but when this teams ready to compete he's going to be in his mid 30s.

I'd rather just gives the young guys a chance, even it means more mistakes/losses.

[OhCanada1091]

God yes.

If we can make it happen for something like Dragic, Flynn, Achiuwa, a guy like Svi, sure.

If they want picks or a more key piece I can't see us pulling the trigger.

Oh, and yes, JV can be traded, his extension fits into the extend and trade rules.

So you think it's time to abandon the great experiment and invest significant resources into a traditional C?

I'm of two minds. On the one hand (er ... mind), it's not like opposing Cs are killing us. It's exciting to see our five best players (Fred, Trent and the three long, two-way forwards) out there together.

On the other hand/mind, the Raptors just don't "look" like a full-fledged NBA team right now. Scottie's defence is not yet as advertised (Suggs was and is a better defender, but only against 6' 4" and smaller players). We look like a hockey team killing a power play.

Theres no great experiment. Theres no Center plain and simple. Masai's keeping the roster mediocre so he can acquire draft picks, unless of course this group figures it out. Then he looks like a genius. He has to do it this way, Masai can't go full blown sell everything because we have no majority owner and every quarter he has to appease the major conglomerate that is the MLSE and convince them its worth hovering around that tax line. So while he convinces them he is competing and putting out a market fans will pay for he is also rebuilding.

[OhCanada1091]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

Why would we add a 30 year old during a rebuild though?

If we were a high seed, it might make sense to give up assets for him, but when this teams ready to compete he's going to be in his mid 30s.

I'd rather just gives the young guys a chance, even it means more mistakes/losses.

No I agree with that. Val doesn't fit our timeline and its just a waste of resources bringing him in because nhe probably doesnt win us many games either. But its not because he doesn't "space the floor" or "defend well". Barnes defends great 1 on 1/mano e mano but at this point he is very wrong with the teams defensive concepts and makes the wrong reads on when to switch, loses guys in transition, backcuts, etc.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

actually very minimal people has said that. We're talking about just being a smart center who can play and anchor the defense.

and most importantly, able to hit the little jump shot in the paint. Raptors are indifferent to Precious and Birch hitting 3s as they are just opportunistic 3s.

[OhCanada1091]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

actually very minimal people has said that. We're talking about just being a smart center who can play and anchor the defense.

and most importantly, able to hit the little jump shot in the paint. Raptors are indifferent to Precious and Birch hitting 3s as they are just opportunistic 3s.

Well yeah if thats what you were talking about then I'm obviously not talking about you when I'm addressing the thought that JV can't stretch the floor.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

People saying we need a big that can stretch the floor instead of JV or comparing him to Drummond meanwhile he leads the league in three point percentage and averages more three attempts than Birch, Achiuwa and Barnes combined which are the three players weve had play whatever our version of C is this year. He leads the entire league...and its not even close.

actually very minimal people has said that. We're talking about just being a smart center who can play and anchor the defense.

and most importantly, able to hit the little jump shot in the paint. Raptors are indifferent to Precious and Birch hitting 3s as they are just opportunistic 3s.

Well yeah if thats what you were talking about then I'm obviously not talking about you when I'm addressing the thought that JV can't stretch the floor.

I think if the team has an identity to be an elite defensive team, and they aren’t playing to that defensive effort , JV is not the answer all in all. Don’t think JV would solve the underlying problem this team has which is perimeter defense. JV would make it worse in the PnR. At last the Raptors can mitigate that with their switchability at first attempt.

But all in all, the bench is not producing either. JV would be a great guy for the Bench though and intermittent play with the starters.


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[GreatWhiteStiff]

I think if the team has an identity to be an elite defensive team, and they aren’t playing to that defensive effort , JV is not the answer all in all.

[sogood]

I'd rather get Ingram. The Pels need a backcourt. Dragic, Svi, Boucher + sweetener?

Yeah I'm sure they would love to trade their young all-star for a bunch of scrubs.

[ruckus]

I'd rather get Ingram. The Pels need a backcourt. Dragic, Svi, Boucher + sweetener?

Yeah I'm sure they would love to trade their young all-star for a bunch of scrubs.

If we're discussing pie in the sky trades, the likelihood of reacquiring JV is only marginally better than getting Ingram.

[Appostis]

I agree with this except that Drummond is a better rebounder and a bit better on defense.

Masai told JV directly on Open Gym once - "you're better than Drummond."

Thats after he failed to trade Jonas for Drummond, what he supposed to say? I mean Jonas is better than Drummond now, but Masai didnt think that at the time.

So..you are making up complete bull and implying he tried to trade JV for Drummond?. It was a rumor.. how many rumors are leaked from the raptors vs bull made up from other teams? All of them?

Cool story bro...

[WaltFrazier]

Are we a contender? And they all come off the bench in limited minutes or in Drummonds case, it should be never. Mostly min contracts extending their careeer. And Javel McGee is not similar to the other 3.

I know we aren't the team for veteran C's quite like those. But the games missed by Birch then Achiuwa show we could use another C to step in. I don't want to trade Pascal for a star, just an under the radar younger guy, or vet, who could shore up the interior D. Last season no one ever thought Birch on the Magic bench would be a guy who'd come and play such solid minutes for us. We need one more acquisition like that, which wouldn't cost much.

Just... why?

We aren't competing and you want to trade Siakam for JV why... to fill a gap so we get a few wins then get hammered if we make the playofffs because we traded a far better player away for JV or a backup centre? It's a huge overpay.

Just play Birch, play Achiuwa, play the kids, see where the chips fall. You guys better start to be patient becuase none of what you are all asking for is going to happen this year. Ujiri told you there would be really inconsistent times which means he's not going to be too active.

This year is pretty much a write-off to try and get players better and try to make the playoffs. Which they shoiuld be able to do if Nurse keeps his **** together instead of doing what he did last night.

I specifically said NOT Pascal for a star (JV or otherwise). I specifically said just get one more under the radar C without touching our core. Even last year when we WERE tanking, Masai still went and got Birch. We need a similar move to that, to get one more C. "Just play Birch, play Achiuwa" you say, but one of them has been hurt for several games now. That alone is a reason to get one more, injuries. Plus there are basketball reason to get stronger in the paint.

[RapsFanInOhio]

I will still argue to this day the Gasol trade wasn't the reason we won the championship. It didn't hurt our chances but it didn't help them as much as ppl make it seem. He did very little. Ppl will point, "oh he stoped vucevic" lol like we couldn't beat the magic lol

The truth? JV carried us for many playoffs while Lowry and DD struggled. That's the truth.

I completely disagree with the first part of this. There is no chance we win that without Gasol. Zero.

JV did carry us in the playoffs a few years before that but he would not have made nearly the impact that Gasol hd defensively.