4 Games In - How is Small Ball Working?

hsb · Post #61 » by **hsb** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:30 am

Net rating is sometimes interesting. Can be a good tool to see something that might not be there or present things as is. But it shouldn't be a summary statistic in and of itself. That much we should have learned from the Casey years.

WaltFrazier · Post #62 » by **WaltFrazier** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:34 am

Can one of the "advanced stats" posters post numbers for the 4 man combo of :

Achiuwa Pascal OG Barnes

Birch Pascal OG Barnes

vulture · Post #63 » by **vulture** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:47 am

I really don’t think that small ball lineup is an issue but the team has put in some defensive coverages that takes time to really solidify. Last night they switched so many defences that I’m sure it’s hard for everyone to be in synch with it. This isn’t the vet team we had 2 years ago.

In the fourth quarter we went from box and one to triangle and 2 to man 2 man and switched everything. That is really hard for a young team that hasn’t played together.

Wannabe MEP · Post #64 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:54 am

WaltFrazier wrote:Can one of the "advanced stats" posters post numbers for the 4 man combo of :

Achiuwa Pascal OG Barnes

Birch Pascal OG Barnes

I'm fairly sure neither crew has played together. 4-man crews with those three: none include Birch or Achiuwa.

WaltFrazier · Post #65 » by **WaltFrazier** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:05 am

Los Soles wrote:
WaltFrazier wrote:Can one of the "advanced stats" posters post numbers for the 4 man combo of :

Achiuwa Pascal OG Barnes

Birch Pascal OG Barnes

I'm fairly sure neither crew has played together. 4-man crews with those three: none include Birch or Achiuwa.

I know, I was making a point. And since Pascal has returned, one of Birch or Achiuwa has been hurt, so maybe we will see it eventually. That's the lineup I think will make our small ball work. To those who will say, it won't work, not enough spacing etc.., I can only say let's see it actually be tried first. We have certainly played worse lineups, but somehow this one is just unthinkable?

Otherwise, how is small ball working, asks the thread title. Well, we have 2 undersized centers, so everything thing we do is small ball. Our record is 7-8. That's how it's working so far.

Wannabe MEP · Post #66 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:18 am

Heights for the highly successful starting lineup of the best team in the NBA:

Curry 6-2
Poole 6-4
Green 6-6
Wiggins 6-7
Looney 6-9

This Raptors small ball starting lineup:

FVV 6-1
Trent 6-5
OG 6-7
Siakam 6-9
Barnes 6-9

nikster · Post #67 » by **nikster** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:41 am

Los Soles wrote:
nikster wrote:...and Barnes and Siakam played LOSING basketball.

Not sure what lineup cut you're talking about, but reading this at face value: no they didn't. Positive net rating.

Soon as you take OG out of the lineup they are. Just like Khem and Siakam

_MidNight_ · Post #68 » by **_MidNight_** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:47 am

Moving forward I want to see a starting 5 of.

Fred
OG
Barnes
Pascal
Precious.

With Trent, Banton, Boucher, Yuta and Svi rounding out a 10 player rotation.

Wannabe MEP · Post #69 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:57 am

nikster wrote:
Los Soles wrote:
nikster wrote:...and Barnes and Siakam played LOSING basketball.

Not sure what lineup cut you're talking about, but reading this at face value: no they didn't. Positive net rating.

Soon as you take OG out of the lineup they are. Just like Khem and Siakam

Not the same thing. I was looking at lineups with Siakam-Birch at the 4-5. Most of those minutes for Siakam + Barnes - OG were with Birch or Achiuwa at the 5.

RedVanVleet · Post #70 » by **RedVanVleet** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:33 am

Moving forward as a 'rebuilding team' its niceeeee to see the potential there. Barnes and OG will bring all the excitement I need for the next few seasons. Itd be nice if Fred didnt have his ego, but maybe he learns to share the 'team' with everyone else. He is so good off the ball Id be nice to find the next Kyle; or maybe fred figures that out.

RedVanVleet · Post #71 » by **RedVanVleet** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:41 am

_MidNight_ wrote:Moving forward I want to see a starting 5 of.

Fred
OG
Barnes
Pascal
Precious.

With Trent, Banton, Boucher, Yuta and Svi rounding out a 10 player rotation.

no Birch??? Precious needs g-league time

OhCanada1091 · Post #72 » by **OhCanada1091** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:41 am

Los Soles wrote:Heights for the highly successful starting lineup of the best team in the NBA:

Curry 6-2
Poole 6-4
Green 6-6
Wiggins 6-7
Looney 6-9
This Raptors small ball starting lineup:

FVV 6-1
Trent 6-5
OG 6-7
Siakam 6-9
Barnes 6-9

Yeah. We dont have a Steph Curry...

Wannabe MEP · Post #73 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:49 am

OhCanada1091 wrote:
Los Soles wrote:Heights for the highly successful starting lineup of the best team in the NBA:

Curry 6-2
Poole 6-4
Green 6-6
Wiggins 6-7
Looney 6-9
This Raptors small ball starting lineup:

FVV 6-1
Trent 6-5
OG 6-7
Siakam 6-9
Barnes 6-9

Yeah. We dont have a Steph Curry...

Because he's the key to their league-leading defense?

Indeed · Post #74 » by **Indeed** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:16 am

Los Soles wrote:
OhCanada1091 wrote:
Los Soles wrote:Heights for the highly successful starting lineup of the best team in the NBA:

Curry 6-2
Poole 6-4
Green 6-6
Wiggins 6-7
Looney 6-9
This Raptors small ball starting lineup:

FVV 6-1
Trent 6-5
OG 6-7
Siakam 6-9
Barnes 6-9

Yeah. We dont have a Steph Curry...

Because he's the key to their league-leading defense?

Why don't you use the best NetRtg lineup in the league?
.D. Green, .T. Harris, .S. Curry, .J. Embiid, .T. Maxey (128 min)
.M. Bamba, .W. Carter Jr., .C. Anthony, .F. Wagner, .J. Suggs (144 min)

If we are using the best NetRtg, why are we claiming our current starting lineup works when we are bottom 10?

Do you need to bring up that our previous starting lineup (which is also small ball starting lineup) is better than the current one in terms of starting Achiuwa (or Birch)?

Wannabe MEP · Post #75 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:25 am

Indeed wrote:
Los Soles wrote:
OhCanada1091 wrote:
Yeah. We dont have a Steph Curry...

Because he's the key to their league-leading defense?

Why don't you use the best NetRtg lineup in the league?

Overall net rating and overall defensive rating.

Elite defense. Smaller than the Raptors.

terryjackson · Post #76 » by **terryjackson** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:27 am

We should go for a complete 6'9 line up.

C - Barnes
PF - Yuta
SF - OG
SG - Banton
PG- Siakam

Indeed · Post #77 » by **Indeed** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:43 am

Los Soles wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Los Soles wrote:Because he's the key to their league-leading defense?

Why don't you use the best NetRtg lineup in the league?

Overall net rating and overall defensive rating.

Elite defense. Smaller than the Raptors.

So we are not talking about starting lineup, we are talking about overall team defense?

What exactly are we measuring?
Are we talking about small ball lineup? Are we talking about overall team defense?
What does it have to do with us?

Wannabe MEP · Post #78 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:56 am

Indeed wrote:
Los Soles wrote:
Indeed wrote:
Why don't you use the best NetRtg lineup in the league?

Overall net rating and overall defensive rating.

Elite defense. Smaller than the Raptors.

So we are not talking about starting lineup, we are talking about overall team defense?

What exactly are we measuring?
Are we talking about small ball lineup? Are we talking about overall team defense?
What does it have to do with us?

I think you need to take a break. Step away from the keyboard. Relax. It's all going to be ok. We're just talking about basketball.

I'm making a point. I think my point is pretty clear. But if you don't get it, that's ok.

God Squad · Post #79 » by **God Squad** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:56 am

We switch too much and smart teams can take advantage of strong close outs. We're letting too many teams either get hot from 3, or like the Pistons game get demolished in the paint.

Need more man 2 man defense and switch depending on teams.

Appostis · Post #80 » by **Appostis** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:03 pm

Los Soles wrote:
TravisScott55 wrote:Start Birch

_____-_____-OG-Barnes-Siakam -- NetRtg: +6.8
_____-_____-_____-Siakam-Birch -- NetRtg: -14.5

Not bothering to attach minutes in those lines up?

Cool..coolcool