2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               WeekapaugGroove
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
The KAT thing is pretty simple to me. If they aren't comfortable paying Ayton for whatever reason then of course you would consider a KAT deal.
The wildcard is Booker. It's not implausible that he's in Jones ear about his desire to play with KAT. Now if that was true we'd never actually hear about because I'm sure Book doesn't want that out there but who knows what gets said behind closed doors. Booker is extension eligible this coming summer.
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                                    The wildcard is Booker. It's not implausible that he's in Jones ear about his desire to play with KAT. Now if that was true we'd never actually hear about because I'm sure Book doesn't want that out there but who knows what gets said behind closed doors. Booker is extension eligible this coming summer.
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                        Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               Barkley6
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
I don't understand the KAT love. I'm realistic on Ayton, but I dont really see KAT moving the needle much if at all for us as a team. If Ayton was determined to walk after not getting paid, of course I'd entertain a deal to get something back for him. 
KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
            
                                    
                                    
                        KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
- Puff
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
bwgood77 wrote:Puff wrote:bwgood77 wrote:I agree you do not need a great C when you have Michael Jordan. Or LeBron James.
I don't think great Cs are imperative at all.
I don't think great PGs are imperative at all.
I don't think great SGs are imperative at all
I don't think great SFs are imperative at all.
I don't think great PFs are imperative at all.
You need a few great players. It doesn't matter the position as long as they complement one another well. It CAN be C as we've seen on many teams. Or PG. Or SG. Or SF, etc.
It is quite annoying for you to change what I am saying to fit your arguments.
I have never said dump Ayton for nothing but I also believe he is not and will not be a great player. We need a great player going forward to replace CP3, I have said that repeatedly. I would do a sign and trade with Ayton this summer for a great player, quite frankly at any position. That is if there is one available that we could make a trade work. If we cannot make that happen I would sign Ayton as you suggest for something less than the max if possible. If another team offers him the max I would match it and continues to search for that great player in a sign and trade. If Ayton morphs into a legit GREAT player then we just keep him. It would be foolish to let him go for nothing.
You keep suggesting Mikal will be a GREAT player going forward. That is not going to happen. It is not part of his make up. However I would not trade him or include him in a trade, he is a keeper and a important piece going forward.
I view a GREAT player differently than simply one that fits with others. My view of a GREAT player is a player than you can give the ball to and he will either make the play for himself or create the play for a teammate. Those players are almost always are PG's, SG's or SF's.
The Great Centers that one poster mentioned, played a couple of decades ago, the game has changed. Shaq could not win until he got Kobe as the engine for the Lakers and Dwayne Wade in Miami. He thought he made those teams great by himself, not really. He was an important piece but the game has changed. I expect he would struggle in today's game. That is if they would call fouls on him when he played bully ball.
We are blessed to have two GREAT PLAYERS currently on our roster in Booker and CP3. Monte keeps one of them on the court at all times and at crunch time they are both on the court. If we ever get consistent play from Mikal, Cam Johnson, Cam Payne and Crowder we are going to be dangerous. Mikal has been the best of that group by a mile. However we keep winning, even if it is against the bottom feeders.
Things could be worse.
I think we agree on a lot. i just think comments like "who was Michael Jordan's C?" are a little ridiculous. You need stars period. I would trade Ayton for a great player too. Is a team going to trade a great player for him? I don't see it.
I guess Towns is a possibility if he asks out (though I hate to assume such things) but to your argument he doesn't really fit into your not needing/paying a C a ton of money.
Yes it does.
Who played center tonight for either GS or BKN? Don't look.
If you look at the recap I put together in regards to NBA champions for the past decade plus. None of those teams had a max player at the center position. That time has come and gone. I am not necessarily a fan of KAT either but with what he does he could be a better fit. He plays more like a PF than a center anyway.
To repeat again. I would not max out Ayton if I could work a sign and trade that would return a potential All Star that would fit with our group. If we cannot accomplish that then I would match any offer that Ayton receives. I would also be on the look out in the future for potential trades. Ayton has value and we cannot afford to just toss him aside. My hope is that it does not come to that he makes us all as well as James Jones believe he is worth the max and we keep him.
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                        Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Puff wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Puff wrote:
It is quite annoying for you to change what I am saying to fit your arguments.
I have never said dump Ayton for nothing but I also believe he is not and will not be a great player. We need a great player going forward to replace CP3, I have said that repeatedly. I would do a sign and trade with Ayton this summer for a great player, quite frankly at any position. That is if there is one available that we could make a trade work. If we cannot make that happen I would sign Ayton as you suggest for something less than the max if possible. If another team offers him the max I would match it and continues to search for that great player in a sign and trade. If Ayton morphs into a legit GREAT player then we just keep him. It would be foolish to let him go for nothing.
You keep suggesting Mikal will be a GREAT player going forward. That is not going to happen. It is not part of his make up. However I would not trade him or include him in a trade, he is a keeper and a important piece going forward.
I view a GREAT player differently than simply one that fits with others. My view of a GREAT player is a player than you can give the ball to and he will either make the play for himself or create the play for a teammate. Those players are almost always are PG's, SG's or SF's.
The Great Centers that one poster mentioned, played a couple of decades ago, the game has changed. Shaq could not win until he got Kobe as the engine for the Lakers and Dwayne Wade in Miami. He thought he made those teams great by himself, not really. He was an important piece but the game has changed. I expect he would struggle in today's game. That is if they would call fouls on him when he played bully ball.
We are blessed to have two GREAT PLAYERS currently on our roster in Booker and CP3. Monte keeps one of them on the court at all times and at crunch time they are both on the court. If we ever get consistent play from Mikal, Cam Johnson, Cam Payne and Crowder we are going to be dangerous. Mikal has been the best of that group by a mile. However we keep winning, even if it is against the bottom feeders.
Things could be worse.
I think we agree on a lot. i just think comments like "who was Michael Jordan's C?" are a little ridiculous. You need stars period. I would trade Ayton for a great player too. Is a team going to trade a great player for him? I don't see it.
I guess Towns is a possibility if he asks out (though I hate to assume such things) but to your argument he doesn't really fit into your not needing/paying a C a ton of money.
Yes it does.
Who played center tonight for either GS or BKN? Don't look.
If you look at the recap I put together in regards to NBA champions for the past decade plus. None of those teams had a max player at the center position. That time has come and gone. I am not necessarily a fan of KAT either but with what he does he could be a better fit. He plays more like a PF than a center anyway.
To repeat again. I would not max out Ayton if I could work a sign and trade that would return a potential All Star that would fit with our group. If we cannot accomplish that then I would match any offer that Ayton receives. I would also be on the look out in the future for potential trades. Ayton has value and we cannot afford to just toss him aside. My hope is that it does not come to that he makes us all as well as James Jones believe he is worth the max and we keep him.
Once again, I agree that as long as you have a legendary player like Curry along with a guy who basically defends like a C and also is a great utility guy/facilitator in Draymond, you don't need a C. Brooklyn has 2 top 10 players...probably like top 7...many put KD at top or at worst top 3.
Tim Duncan and Giannis are both the same size as Ayton...around 6'11, 250, since you are so focused on not needing size. KG was close to that...a little lighter...those guys were big men. Ayton actually operates less like a C than Duncan because he can guard around the perimeter. KD is fairly close in size at 6/10, 240. Of course he is a legendary shooter but each player has their own skill set.
You are right that the days of low post Cs being important is gone. You want finishers and guys who are versatile defensively. If they can playmake or shoot the 3, even better.
You keep mentioning maxing him...which I have said I wouldn't have either. I would have tried to negotiate, and if they refused after attempting, fine.
But for the umpteenth time I hope to get him on a fairly reasonable deal, as I still think he has enormous upside. I know I care more about defense than most, so I mention improvement and others don't think he has improved, so it's hard to discuss when people care about different things.
We were also outrebounded for years before we got him...like at least a decade and most of the time since Barkley...or at least Marion.
But a lot of the best teams are playing big....some of them are hurt but some of the up n coming teams play pretty big too.
But the thing is, Ayton isn't like a traditional C in that he can guard most positions on defense fairly effectively. He only struggles against really quick guards...and not all of them...it allows us to switch.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               AtheJ415
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Barkley6 wrote:I don't understand the KAT love. I'm realistic on Ayton, but I dont really see KAT moving the needle much if at all for us as a team. If Ayton was determined to walk after not getting paid, of course I'd entertain a deal to get something back for him.
KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
I think KAT for Ayton is an even trade. KAT may end up the greatest shooting big man of all time, but Ayton can do things defensively KAT will never be able to do. And Ayton has the touch to continue to develop as a big from the perimeter. His handles have to improve. He's not comfortable driving imo which is why he doesn't face up and attack as much as he needs to. I think from a skill perspective the biggest gap offensively is handles, not shooting. I don't think there's a "wrong" call between the 2. Ayton had one of the greatest postseasons of all time just months ago and we lost that series due to coaching and rebounding primarily so I personally lean towards keeping Ayton because KAT and Crowder as our 4 and 5 is a nightmare on the boards.
The move we should really be discussing is upgrading Crowder's spot. Cam's better in that spot imo, but we'd be drastically better with an above average starting 4 at that spot instead of a mediocre role player. I'm hoping the Rockets or Pistons decide to cash in on Wood or Grant if they decide their rebuild is going to be much more extended and would prefer a package of picks. I like Dario too but he's always been better as the backup 5. We need a 4 who can get rebounds against smaller athletic lineups and traditional big lineups, and I think Grant or Wood fit that mold better.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               AtheJ415
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Puff wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Puff wrote:
It is quite annoying for you to change what I am saying to fit your arguments.
I have never said dump Ayton for nothing but I also believe he is not and will not be a great player. We need a great player going forward to replace CP3, I have said that repeatedly. I would do a sign and trade with Ayton this summer for a great player, quite frankly at any position. That is if there is one available that we could make a trade work. If we cannot make that happen I would sign Ayton as you suggest for something less than the max if possible. If another team offers him the max I would match it and continues to search for that great player in a sign and trade. If Ayton morphs into a legit GREAT player then we just keep him. It would be foolish to let him go for nothing.
You keep suggesting Mikal will be a GREAT player going forward. That is not going to happen. It is not part of his make up. However I would not trade him or include him in a trade, he is a keeper and a important piece going forward.
I view a GREAT player differently than simply one that fits with others. My view of a GREAT player is a player than you can give the ball to and he will either make the play for himself or create the play for a teammate. Those players are almost always are PG's, SG's or SF's.
The Great Centers that one poster mentioned, played a couple of decades ago, the game has changed. Shaq could not win until he got Kobe as the engine for the Lakers and Dwayne Wade in Miami. He thought he made those teams great by himself, not really. He was an important piece but the game has changed. I expect he would struggle in today's game. That is if they would call fouls on him when he played bully ball.
We are blessed to have two GREAT PLAYERS currently on our roster in Booker and CP3. Monte keeps one of them on the court at all times and at crunch time they are both on the court. If we ever get consistent play from Mikal, Cam Johnson, Cam Payne and Crowder we are going to be dangerous. Mikal has been the best of that group by a mile. However we keep winning, even if it is against the bottom feeders.
Things could be worse.
I think we agree on a lot. i just think comments like "who was Michael Jordan's C?" are a little ridiculous. You need stars period. I would trade Ayton for a great player too. Is a team going to trade a great player for him? I don't see it.
I guess Towns is a possibility if he asks out (though I hate to assume such things) but to your argument he doesn't really fit into your not needing/paying a C a ton of money.
Yes it does.
Who played center tonight for either GS or BKN? Don't look.
If you look at the recap I put together in regards to NBA champions for the past decade plus. None of those teams had a max player at the center position. That time has come and gone. I am not necessarily a fan of KAT either but with what he does he could be a better fit. He plays more like a PF than a center anyway.
To repeat again. I would not max out Ayton if I could work a sign and trade that would return a potential All Star that would fit with our group. If we cannot accomplish that then I would match any offer that Ayton receives. I would also be on the look out in the future for potential trades. Ayton has value and we cannot afford to just toss him aside. My hope is that it does not come to that he makes us all as well as James Jones believe he is worth the max and we keep him.
The entire advantage of Ayton as opposed to basically every other big man in the league aside from maybe Embiid is that he is the only one who cannot be abused by guard switches. He is quick enough to stay in front. Gobert struggles in the playoffs because he can't do that. Ayton had one of the greatest runs in NBA history in the playoffs. Injuries or not, teams tried to play small. It didn't work. It doesn't work in the regular season too. Ayton's primary value imo to me is that he is the one big dude who can stay on the court as the big dude and not get torched defensively, which allows him to shoot like 80% like he did for much of the playoffs because nobody can bother him and we have guards who can feed him against small defenders. I wouldn't look at the traditional switch of NBA rosters as a negative for Ayton. I actually think it's a positive. That said, I'd be mostly 50/50 on a KAT trade because KAT is stupidly talented and a top 30 player who is young and that many would trade a promising player like Ayton for.
The question with KAT is awareness defensively, and while he's talented and athletic he doesn't have the same level of athleticism Ayton has imo.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               Mulhollanddrive
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
28 teams are contracted for $90m+ next season meaning they can't offer Ayton the max.
Spurs and Detroit are the other 2 who could do a 4 year max with 5% raises = $128m over 4 @ $32m per season.
Maybe we can offer him $150m over 5 years @ $30m per season.
I think we are better placed with these options than caving to a 5 year max off the bat.
Ayton abused Towns in the pick and roll the other day, I don't think a team can leak and win a championship like that.
            
                                    
                                    
                        Spurs and Detroit are the other 2 who could do a 4 year max with 5% raises = $128m over 4 @ $32m per season.
Maybe we can offer him $150m over 5 years @ $30m per season.
I think we are better placed with these options than caving to a 5 year max off the bat.
Ayton abused Towns in the pick and roll the other day, I don't think a team can leak and win a championship like that.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               WeekapaugGroove
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
I see names like Grant and Woods get tossed around and no doubt in a vacuum they are upgrades but if they were in the team what current starters(s) usage are you dramatically cutting so those guys get the amount of touches/shots they want and frankly need to be effective? Fyi Grant can actually be pretty effective as a role player but he specifically left Denver because he wanted to me more of 'the guy'.AtheJ415 wrote:Barkley6 wrote:I don't understand the KAT love. I'm realistic on Ayton, but I dont really see KAT moving the needle much if at all for us as a team. If Ayton was determined to walk after not getting paid, of course I'd entertain a deal to get something back for him.
KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
I think KAT for Ayton is an even trade. KAT may end up the greatest shooting big man of all time, but Ayton can do things defensively KAT will never be able to do. And Ayton has the touch to continue to develop as a big from the perimeter. His handles have to improve. He's not comfortable driving imo which is why he doesn't face up and attack as much as he needs to. I think from a skill perspective the biggest gap offensively is handles, not shooting. I don't think there's a "wrong" call between the 2. Ayton had one of the greatest postseasons of all time just months ago and we lost that series due to coaching and rebounding primarily so I personally lean towards keeping Ayton because KAT and Crowder as our 4 and 5 is a nightmare on the boards.
The move we should really be discussing is upgrading Crowder's spot. Cam's better in that spot imo, but we'd be drastically better with an above average starting 4 at that spot instead of a mediocre role player. I'm hoping the Rockets or Pistons decide to cash in on Wood or Grant if they decide their rebuild is going to be much more extended and would prefer a package of picks. I like Dario too but he's always been better as the backup 5. We need a 4 who can get rebounds against smaller athletic lineups and traditional big lineups, and I think Grant or Wood fit that mold better.
To me guys like that make a ton more sense if you traded Ayton and had a role player at the 5.
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                        Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
bwgood77 wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:SunsLyf3 wrote:Thank you for this. It needed to be said and you can clearly see who has an agenda to follow in order to drag DA down for no reason.
I'm a huge DA fan, but even I can see why so many have problems with him. He's not very fluid on offense, avoids contact, isn't living up to his potential, doesn't give 100% effort except in bursts when prodded. This doesn't negate all the things he does well, but especially given how well McGee and Frank played in his absence, it's easy to see why many fans would take issue with giving him a max contract.
He's a throwback to another era, where big men dominated the league with mid-range and turnaround jump shots. In today's game, he's relegated to the role of rebounder/finisher/defender. He's an elite rebounder who gives us free points via the offensive glass, makes minimal mistakes and converts on his infrequent shot attempts at a high level, but he doesn't create offense with the ball in his hands, unlike guys like KAT and Jokic. But he's maybe the best in his league at his role - Capela and Gobert being the other contenders for that title, each having their own pluses and minuses relative to Ayton.
But the bottom line is that unless he embraces physicality, he'll never reach his full potential. That being so obvious is what gives the haters their ammunition - that and McGee/Frank's success in his absence. 25 PPG is his if he'll fight for it, but he doesn't. Too easygoing and passive, unwilling to assert his dominance on offense. We're caught between the fact that we can't possibly upgrade from him and that he won't upgrade himself to the level we would need him to reach in order to contend post-CP3. I get the frustration. Another brick in the wall between us and perennial contention. I love the guy but I too am losing hope he'll escape super role player status.
If he was still playing with Rubio, my guess is he would be well into 20 ppg. The thing is, our offense is not set up for him to get that many touches. He didn't have a decrease in touches from 15 shots per game 2 years ago to 10 last year because he lacks aggression.
It's fairly clear.
Sure he has plenty of things to work on but so does everyone on our team outside of Paul. We have some players having bad seasons according to their standards. And I'm not taking Ayton.
All that is true however even Milwaukee cannot win with a healthy Greek Freak. Holiday has played 8 games and Middleton 6. Those guys were as much a part of them winning the championship as the Greek Freak. I cannot remember a team that was not outstanding at those positions.
So as you say everyone is struggling. As you suggest and I agree that without Chris Paul we might not have even made the payoffs. With Rudio we might have but I doubt that we make it to the finals. I still have hopes that Booker will morph into the player that will carry us in the future. I also do not think Ayton has been a disappointment. He does what he does but IMO it is not worth a max contract. Cam Johnson has been my biggest disappointment. I think we expected some improvement from him but he has slid backwards. I also see Mikal doing some really good things but he is very inconsistent. He doesn't appear to be part of a big three in the future. I certainly hope I am wrong because I like him.
We are playing well but we have been feasting on the little sisters of the poor. Without Chris Paul would we even be a .500 at this point. I don't think so.
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                        Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               Slim Charless
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I see names like Grant and Woods get tossed around and no doubt in a vacuum they are upgrades but if they were in the team what current starters(s) usage are you dramatically cutting so those guys get the amount of touches/shots they want and frankly need to be effective? Fyi Grant can actually be pretty effective as a role player but he specifically left Denver because he wanted to me more of 'the guy'.AtheJ415 wrote:Barkley6 wrote:I don't understand the KAT love. I'm realistic on Ayton, but I dont really see KAT moving the needle much if at all for us as a team. If Ayton was determined to walk after not getting paid, of course I'd entertain a deal to get something back for him.
KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
I think KAT for Ayton is an even trade. KAT may end up the greatest shooting big man of all time, but Ayton can do things defensively KAT will never be able to do. And Ayton has the touch to continue to develop as a big from the perimeter. His handles have to improve. He's not comfortable driving imo which is why he doesn't face up and attack as much as he needs to. I think from a skill perspective the biggest gap offensively is handles, not shooting. I don't think there's a "wrong" call between the 2. Ayton had one of the greatest postseasons of all time just months ago and we lost that series due to coaching and rebounding primarily so I personally lean towards keeping Ayton because KAT and Crowder as our 4 and 5 is a nightmare on the boards.
The move we should really be discussing is upgrading Crowder's spot. Cam's better in that spot imo, but we'd be drastically better with an above average starting 4 at that spot instead of a mediocre role player. I'm hoping the Rockets or Pistons decide to cash in on Wood or Grant if they decide their rebuild is going to be much more extended and would prefer a package of picks. I like Dario too but he's always been better as the backup 5. We need a 4 who can get rebounds against smaller athletic lineups and traditional big lineups, and I think Grant or Wood fit that mold better.
To me guys like that make a ton more sense if you traded Ayton and had a role player at the 5.
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I think a move for Grant or Woods seems like a good idea, but w/o our pick this year idk who we offer to get either or them. Unless 1 of those teams wants Cam.
I also wouldn't mind Marcus Smart as he would fit the locker room presence of CP3 and Crowder very well. 1 of the toughest players in the league and I think he's wearing out his welcome some with Tatum and Brown.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               GoodBehavior
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Barkley6 wrote:I don't understand the KAT love. I'm realistic on Ayton, but I dont really see KAT moving the needle much if at all for us as a team. If Ayton was determined to walk after not getting paid, of course I'd entertain a deal to get something back for him.
KAT is a really good scorer and can create his own shot and that's the most valuable skill in the NBA, so I don't want anyone to think I dont think KAT is a good player. I just don't think he changes us much because of the way our team runs. KAT has to have the ball in his hands A LOT and doesn't manage it well (had 7 turnovers last night, and averages 3.3/game for his career to 3.1 assists). I think we need to eventually find a second option on offense to replace CP3 once he ages out of the league, and maybe making a deal for KAT makes sense at that time, but I just don't see him being a good fit with Book and CP3.
I was originally on the KAT trade bandwagon, but after seeing the last game, I am not sure I want KAT period. Ayton was basically sleep walking on the pick and roll and KAT had no clue what to do. A Booker/KAT combo looks iffy. Teams would absolutely abuse those two. DLO is no better. I don't think it's a secret that Booker wants a Book/Dlo/KAT combo but that is just terrrible.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               GoodBehavior
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
SunsLyf3 wrote:NapoleonII wrote:So because we don't run plays for Ayton or feed him or run our offense thru him = Ayton is completely inept at scoring on his own, is spoon fed by Cp3
lol
Despite putting up great rookie numbers (16/10) in 2018-9 with a PG line-up of Okobo/ Canaan / Melton.
Despite limiting his game BECAUSE of our system that has the most killer back court with Cp3 and Booker.
Despite putting up good numbers in the games where CP3 is injured, both in the regular season and in the playoffs.
Despite getting wins against All-NBA centers/big man Jokic/Anthony Davis
The Ayton Detractors are really dragging this board down. I'm not talking about the realists, but the ones who are screaming trade when we're winning, after a really successful year from this extremely young team and 23-year old building block
I'm gonna limit my time here until the playoffs, see ya'll when we win 60+ games and have a great chance of getting to the finals.
Thank you for this. It needed to be said and you can clearly see who has an agenda to follow in order to drag DA down for no reason.
I don't think people are dragging him down. People just tend to forget that there's two elite all-star caliber players ahead of him on the pecking order. Ayton had a beautiful turnaround jumper on a post move against KAT, so he's more than capable. The game seems to be slowing down for him, so hopefully the progression continues.
And exploring the trading of Ayton is hardly a bad thing. He's a valuable player and some teams might value him highly enough to offer an attractive package.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               ImNotMcDiSwear
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Can't wait to watch this team play the Warriors. It's like those old Suns-Spurs matchups in reverse. They're the league's most dominant offensive team, blowing people out with their pace and shooting. And now we're the defensive stalwarts, trying to slow things down, take good shots and beat them up defensively. Most curious to see whether Ayton's still able to provide us on edge on the boards against a team that generates so many long rebounds, and whether we can keep them taking the ball out of bounds with Ayton working the offensive glass as well. Also curious to see how we match up with Curry, as there are no obvious solutions there: kind of a pick your poison situation. A lot depends on whether Crowder and Booker are hitting their threes, I think. Could make for a terrific WCF - assuming we can beat good teams as well as all these flunkies we've bested thus far.
            
                                    
                                    
                        Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
- bwgood77
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Can't wait to watch this team play the Warriors. It's like those old Suns-Spurs matchups in reverse. They're the league's most dominant offensive team, blowing people out with their pace and shooting. And now we're the defensive stalwarts, trying to slow things down, take good shots and beat them up defensively. Most curious to see whether Ayton's still able to provide us on edge on the boards against a team that generates so many long rebounds, and whether we can keep them taking the ball out of bounds with Ayton working the offensive glass as well. Also curious to see how we match up with Curry, as there are no obvious solutions there: kind of a pick your poison situation. A lot depends on whether Crowder and Booker are hitting their threes, I think. Could make for a terrific WCF - assuming we can beat good teams as well as all these flunkies we've bested thus far.
Warriors lead the league in rebounds. Perhaps in part because of long rebounds but Draymond is such a master at the little things and is so heavy that he is great at boxing out...kind of like Adams did for Westbrook, Curry gets quite a few rebounds too along with Green and Looney.
Curry is impossible to really stop regardless of defense but if we can have someone stick to him..maybe Bridges with his length, perhaps it slows him a bit...then could put Paul on Poole and Book on Wiggins.
Ayton's defense is a bit marginalized against a team like that because Looney and Green don't too much of the scoring and you don't want Ayton switched onto Curry.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Gerald Bourguet (@GeraldBourguet) Tweeted:
Suns confirm Frank Kaminsky is out for tonight ?s=20


            
                                    
                                    Suns confirm Frank Kaminsky is out for tonight ?s=20



Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
NBA (@NBA) Tweeted:
Sound on for @CP3 mic'd up at @Suns practice!
Chris and the Suns look to win their 10th straight game tonight vs. Dallas at 10pm/et on ESPN. https://t.co/LdlNbS4W04 ?s=20
            
                                    
                                    Sound on for @CP3 mic'd up at @Suns practice!
Chris and the Suns look to win their 10th straight game tonight vs. Dallas at 10pm/et on ESPN. https://t.co/LdlNbS4W04 ?s=20

Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
- Ghost of Kleine
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Basketball Reference (@bball_ref) Tweeted:
Toughest strength of schedule so far:
1. Hornets
2. Pacers
3. Thunder
4. Trail Blazers
5. Hawks
Easiest:
1. Suns
2. Warriors
3. Spurs
4. Lakers
5. Knicks
https://t.co/zTqzQ9dMDi ?s=20
            
                                    
                                    Toughest strength of schedule so far:
1. Hornets
2. Pacers
3. Thunder
4. Trail Blazers
5. Hawks
Easiest:
1. Suns
2. Warriors
3. Spurs
4. Lakers
5. Knicks
https://t.co/zTqzQ9dMDi ?s=20

Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               Mulhollanddrive
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Is the top 3 set?  GSW, Phoenix, Utah.
Dallas, Denver, Clippers, Lakers are all hampered, they could sneak to 50 wins but think the top 3 will get 50+
1969 and 1995 are the only champions from outside the top 3.
            
                                    
                                    
                        Dallas, Denver, Clippers, Lakers are all hampered, they could sneak to 50 wins but think the top 3 will get 50+
1969 and 1995 are the only champions from outside the top 3.
Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
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               Jdiddy701
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Re: 2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation
Has anyone noticed how frustrated Elfrid Payton looks on the bench and in the locker room? The only guy that doesn’t look to be buying in to what the Suns are doing. I’m curious if he regrets signing in Phoenix. 
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