We need to have a serious discussion about James Harden

darkse1d · Post #1 » by **darkse1d** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:42 pm

What the hell happened to him? He went from top 10 superstar to Eddy Curry in a span of 3-4 months. We can't use the out of shape/injury excuse anymore cause it's one month into the season. He should have gotten his rhythm back by now.

He used to be so agile despite looking out of shape and had a really good first step. Now he looks so slow. His 3-pt shots are short and if he's not getting to the free throw line, his numbers look ugly.

15 games into the season, he's shooting 43% from the field. And he just dribbles dribbles dribbles till the shot clock gets under 5 and passes it or does a step back 3. We clown on westbrick for his poor shooting, but Harden has been equally worse. And he is playing next to KD, so he's not even getting double teamed or having the defense focus on him. In fact, teams are just ignoring him all together.

He looks like a shell of himself and for a guy that didn't rely on athleticism that much, he looks so slow out there.

levon · Post #2 » by **levon** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:45 pm

it looks like he can't blow by his man anymore and it's affecting his confidence in all aspects of the game

but I can't tell if it's temporary as part of the hamstring recovery or permanent as an age cliff. can Nets fans/Harden experts help out?

GusFring · Post #3 » by **GusFring** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:51 pm

Looks disengaged and miserable when I watch him. The IQ and talent are still there. It's weird how he gains all this weight now when it matters most but in Houston he was always in great shape but it's not like the world is stress free so I feel you james

BenoUdrihFTL · Post #4 » by **BenoUdrihFTL** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:54 pm

I'm a Harden fan and even if I wasn't I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and this is purely me speculating, but I get a substance abuse vibe here

Peregrine01 · Post #5 » by **Peregrine01** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:55 pm

He has been playing better and I think he will continue to over the course of the season but I think his days as a top-10 player are over. The rules have clearly hurt his effectiveness and he's a step slower than he was before. But even worse than his offensive struggles is how god awful he's been on defense. Otto Porter Jr was blowing by him into the lane last night.

SweetTouch · Post #6 » by **SweetTouch** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:55 pm

November,

He could be averaging 40,10,10 and suck the last months of the season and people will say hes choking

So now he's not worried about meaningless regular season games. It's all about postseason

theforumblue · Post #7 » by **theforumblue** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:00 pm

no serious discussion can be had until he gets in much better shape. i hate harden as much as anyone, but that's partly because i hated the fact that guy with so much talent chooses to go with the foul baiting. talent like his don't go away overnight even with age. rule changes are whatever, not like he wasn't able to hit legit shots before and his step back 3's didn't need fouls to be effective. it's the all those things coming together at same time is what's frustrating him.

poultryfan · Post #8 » by **poultryfan** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:01 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:I'm a Harden fan and even if I wasn't I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and this is purely me speculating, but I get a substance abuse vibe here

Munchies from smoking too much weed? Would explain the weight gain.

dc · Post #9 » by dc » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:04 pm

Still a lot of time left in the season and I suspect Harden will get better as he plays his way into shape.

It's not exactly a Zion situation. If he's still like this in March/April, then the Nets should probably worry but that's a long time away.

Desiderium · Post #10 » by **Desiderium** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:05 pm

Why does he not get more criticism for coming in out of shape every year? I get he had a hamstring injury, but this isn't the only offseason where he's come in fat and out of shape.

G35 · Post #11 » by **G35** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:06 pm

We have had several serious discussions about James Harden, pretty much since he got traded to Houston.
- any changes to how the refs choose to call fouls on him will have a big impact on his production
- he has always been a poor defender and has zero hustle and will make some bonehead lapses
- his body language and leadership skills have always been in question imo

Harden was at his best when the team was tailored to him; on offense having three shooters and a big that can roll to the rim and finish...on defense he needs a big to cover him and perimeter defenders that can cover the biggest perimeter threat...he wants to guard the 3pt shooters in the corner......

nzahir · Post #12 » by **nzahir** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:08 pm

Looks a bit out of shape

Also seems like the new rules have honestly exposed him a bit

If refs don't give him those phony calls like they used to, he might just be an all star, not a superstar

He is still pretty high iq overall, but can make dumb or lazy plays, crafty, can hit the 3, big body, and a great passer

But without the cheap fouls and fts he seems way less confident in attacking and will settle more, which is a win for the defense

Frank Dux · Post #13 » by **Frank Dux** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:11 pm

He's too old to be showing up out of shape every year to start the season. If you wanna be elite into your mid 30's, you better be grinding in the gym year round.

CS707 · Post #14 » by **CS707** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:12 pm

Only so many years you can live his lifestyle and not have it affect you physically.

picc · Post #15 » by **picc** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:13 pm

SweetTouch wrote:So now he's not worried about meaningless regular season games. It's all about postseason

Yes. Because thats always when he’s made his mark.

Dominator83 · Post #16 » by **Dominator83** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:15 pm

SweetTouch wrote:November,

He could be averaging 40,10,10 and suck the last months of the season and people will say hes choking

So now he's not worried about meaningless regular season games. It's all about postseason

How did that work out last year?

VanWest82 · Post #17 » by **VanWest82** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:17 pm

Have to wonder just how much that hamstring set him back. Like groin injuries they can be brutal to come back from.

ShootersShoot · Post #18 » by **ShootersShoot** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:17 pm

He's not too far off from his career eFG% and TS% and even peak averages..he's playing less minutes with far less usage than in his houston days. He's approaching his mid thirties while also never really being in great shape. The nba has specifically adjusted its refereeing to make it harder for him to draw fouls ..its a culmination of all these things. He's still a pretty good player but his days of superstar stats seem to be over.

ShootersShoot · Post #19 » by **ShootersShoot** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:19 pm

levon wrote:it looks like he can't blow by his man anymore and it's affecting his confidence in all aspects of the game

but I can't tell if it's temporary as part of the hamstring recovery or permanent as an age cliff. can Nets fans/Harden experts help out?

Maybe you arent actually watching the games?

Watching their game against the warriors last night, Harden was pretty much blowing by anyone with ease, mainly with a combo of strength and ball handling, not speed obviously. The only time he didnt clearly get by his guy was when he was trying to draw a foul.

HardenGoat · Post #20 » by **HardenGoat** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:26 pm

He's not risking an injury in the regular season no matter how much other fans would relish that. Nets are 10-5, he knows regular season is just a marathon run.