We need to have a serious discussion about James Harden

Bornstellar · Post #21 » by **Bornstellar** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:32 pm

Well, he is starting to get up there in age. Guy was carrying a massive load for many years in Houston. Father Time is undefeated after all

Big J · Post #22 » by **Big J** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:39 pm

The older you get the harder it is to get in shape and come back from injuries. I'm guessing the hammy and weight have taken away his lift and explosion. I think he'll start looking better in the 2nd half of the season.

levon · Post #23 » by **levon** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:40 pm

ShootersShoot wrote:
levon wrote:it looks like he can't blow by his man anymore and it's affecting his confidence in all aspects of the game

but I can't tell if it's temporary as part of the hamstring recovery or permanent as an age cliff. can Nets fans/Harden experts help out?

Maybe you arent actually watching the games?

Watching their game against the warriors last night, Harden was pretty much blowing by anyone with ease, mainly with a combo of strength and ball handling, not speed obviously. The only time he didnt clearly get by his guy was when he was trying to draw a foul.

I watched the game. Maybe it's selection bias, but what stood out were the times he couldn't blow by and had to dribble back out, which happened really often. He could do that 95% of the time in years prior, and even if the defender caught up at his side, he'd have his foul-drawing moves to disarm them. Now it looks like defenders are staying with him and he actually has to finish through contact.

ArtMorte · Post #24 » by **ArtMorte** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:42 pm

It's getting harder and harder to buy the "he's playing himself into shape" excuse as we go further in the season.

Maybe he has hit decline due to age a bit sooner than your average basketball player, especially if he's struggling for motivation then that could simply be the reason.

It is a bit crazy, though, how he was one of the most dominant scorers of all time not long ago and now this. One basketball reason that comes to mind is that Capela did a great job in the pick and roll with Harden, he doesn't have that going for him in Brooklyn.

Statlanta · Post #25 » by **Statlanta** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:42 pm

Previously Injured, Out of Shape and basically targeted by the rule changes.

Yeah his prime is over.

HardenGoat · Post #26 » by **HardenGoat** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:54 pm

ArtMorte wrote: One basketball reason that comes to mind is that Capela did a great job in the pick and roll with Harden, he doesn't have that going for him in Brooklyn.

This is right on the money. Without an interior lob threat defenders are able to close his lane and get on his layups. He had Capela in Houston. Even last year he had Jordan for most of the season and then Jeff Green was lurking in the paint for him too. Green also knew his game from the Rockets so he was good to go. He has nobody like that now with Claxton out.

timecop · Post #27 » by **timecop** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:55 pm

he turned his back on kyrie

Yoshun · Post #28 » by **Yoshun** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:55 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:I'm a Harden fan and even if I wasn't I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and this is purely me speculating, but I get a substance abuse vibe here

I know we shouldn't speculate, but I get a similar feel. He looks tired, out of shape, slow and just out of it. It's too much of a difference from last season.

It could also be a medical or mental health issue, but something is up.

Also, I hesitate a little to write this, but I know someone who parties in a circle that is often around Harden's circle, he's a partier, according to this person. I'm not sure that's news to anyone, and I take it with a grain of salt, but I actually trust this source.

Bobbymcgee · Post #29 » by **Bobbymcgee** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Its crazy how Durant, Harden and Irving created this super-team to win a championship and its all gone to heck. Irving has gone completely off the rails and Harden's bad habits finally caught up to him. Now, Durant is stuck trying to carry this team pretty much by himself out there.

trickshot · Post #30 » by **trickshot** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:07 pm

think I'm a fan of the guy but yeah this is why you don't center your effectiveness around cheesing or spamming. My man got nerfed by the latest patch. I still can't accept he doesn't have an adjustment or 2 in his bag that will make the hate look foolish in a couple months. Has to undo all that muscle memory.

a8bil · Post #31 » by **a8bil** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:11 pm

I'ld pour a beer and have the discussion, but I think Harden drained the keg.

JShuttlesworth · Post #32 » by **JShuttlesworth** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:19 pm

Honestly, I was looking at his stats earlier today and was wondering what's up with him.

I haven't watched enough BKN games to know what's going on

DarkXaero · Post #33 » by **DarkXaero** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:19 pm

If you've been watching the games, you know that Harden has been slowly getting better. Last night against an elite Warriors defense, he blew by his defender multiple times and was really the only guy scoring for Nets in that dreadful 3rd quarter. He still has a lot of things to clean up in his game this season but I'm pretty confident that he'll get there (the superstar player that he has been)

jokeboy86 · Post #34 » by **jokeboy86** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:22 pm

Big problem I notice now is he's a massive liability on defense, more then he's ever been in the past. He can't stay in front of anybody now which is a problem if you're a backcourt player. For the moment his body is now more cardio conditioned for football then basketball. And let's not forget Harden's no spring chicken, this is his 13th season and he's not one of the athletic freaks in NBA history.

nfmos · Post #35 » by **nfmos** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:24 pm

I just don’t think he was ever all about winning. I think he was more into the fame and benefits of being a famous nba player. Like maximizing the benefits he could get with the most minimum effort. Shortcuts on defense, half ass on offense off ball, found the cheats to get the numbers on ball. Always living it up off the court and never prioritizing the sacrifices needed to be truly great. Maybe because he wasn’t a star going into the league, maybe he just wanted the attention and praise. It’s understandable but sets him apart from the very best. I wouldn’t be surprised if he retires sooner than later.

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DarkXaero · Post #36 » by **DarkXaero** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:41 pm

donnieme wrote:think I'm a fan of the guy but yeah this is why you don't center your effectiveness around cheesing or spamming. My man got nerfed by the latest patch. I still can't accept he doesn't have an adjustment or 2 in his bag that will make the hate look foolish in a couple months. Has to undo all that muscle memory.

He got to the line 11 times last night. But the rule change or lack of FTs isn't the main issue anyways (he definitely has been targeted by officiating though). The big problem has been his conditioning and lack of burst. The burst is definitely coming back, last night was another example. I'm not too worried about the conditioning because that will come as he plays more games. That's why I'm saying that I am pretty confident that he'll be back to his normal self soon.

ShootersShoot · Post #37 » by **ShootersShoot** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:42 pm

levon wrote:
ShootersShoot wrote:
levon wrote:it looks like he can't blow by his man anymore and it's affecting his confidence in all aspects of the game

but I can't tell if it's temporary as part of the hamstring recovery or permanent as an age cliff. can Nets fans/Harden experts help out?

Maybe you arent actually watching the games?

Watching their game against the warriors last night, Harden was pretty much blowing by anyone with ease, mainly with a combo of strength and ball handling, not speed obviously. The only time he didnt clearly get by his guy was when he was trying to draw a foul.

I watched the game. Maybe it's selection bias, but what stood out were the times he couldn't blow by and had to dribble back out, which happened really often. He could do that 95% of the time in years prior, and even if the defender caught up at his side, he'd have his foul-drawing moves to disarm them. Now it looks like defenders are staying with him and he actually has to finish through contact.

It may be bias on my part remembering when harden was able to take guys off the dribble as well. Rewatching some of the game, harden was having his way in the 2nd Q except for getting the ball poked away by steph on one possession. However, Harden got blocked from behind twice in the 3rd Q. The warriors were also sending help every time he got a step on anybody. He's definitely lost a step but still capable due to his craftiness and strength.

bearadonisdna · Post #38 » by **bearadonisdna** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:46 pm

The dude is a full time pointguard and is playing that position at an elite level .

43% fgs? That ain’t keeping me up at night.
Yes he definitely not as dangerous as a scorer , his shot is off but in the East pace is usually slower so less opportunities .

Far from washed but a GS trashing will make you look in the mirror

Pachinko_ · Post #39 » by **Pachinko_** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:56 pm

To be honest, Harden only needs to be good for a couple of months for the Nets to hit all their goals.

Its'still too early, whatever it is that's holding him back he has a lot of time to fix it.

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Edrees · Post #40 » by **Edrees** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:02 pm

SweetTouch wrote:November,

He could be averaging 40,10,10 and suck the last months of the season and people will say hes choking

So now he's not worried about meaningless regular season games. It's all about postseason

Beating the Warriors isn't meaningless, it could mean the difference between home court and not in the finals for them. I can understand if he doesn't play well versus the pistons or something