Who can hold out longer? Ben or philly?

[Lockdown504090]

a bit of a different topic regarding this story since philly said they have a list of 30 guys they would deal him for, and they think 5-10 of them will be available soon. with that said, How long can the org. stay solid before either players complain, owners get tired of the story? how long can ben hang on financially? and how much of his prime is he willing to waste? This story is mind boggling.

[bebopdeluxe]

a bit of a different topic regarding this story since philly said they have a list of 30 guys they would deal him for, and they think 5-10 of them will be available soon. with that said, How long can the org. stay solid before either players complain, owners get tired of the story? how long can ben hang on financially? and how much of his prime is he willing to waste? This story is mind boggling.

As a 45+ year fan of the Sixers, I am 100% on board with how the Sixers have handled this to date. I am fully prepared for Ben to sit out the entire season. I think the best time to trade him (unless things dramatically change) would be around the 2022 NBA draft.

Happy to wait until then.

[Hipster Doofus]

Morey can hold it for 4 years

[Harry Garris]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

[Lunartic]

Simmons can technically hold out longer, it's just money to him.
The Sixers can't continue to have this albatross of a contract on the roster while trying to convince Embiid they're serious about winning a title.
Obviously, this doesn't mean they need to trade him for some garbage return that doesn't improve the team but even a solid starter or two is better than some nutcase refusing to lace up.

[JujitsuFlip]

a bit of a different topic regarding this story since philly said they have a list of 30 guys they would deal him for, and they think 5-10 of them will be available soon. with that said, How long can the org. stay solid before either players complain, owners get tired of the story? how long can ben hang on financially? and how much of his prime is he willing to waste? This story is mind boggling.

The quote said they think 5 or 10 out of the 30 will be available in 1 to 2 years. Not sure that should be characterized as soon.

[Lockdown504090]

Simmons can technically hold out longer, it's just money to him.
The Sixers can't continue to have this albatross of a contract on the roster while trying to convince Embiid they're serious about winning a title.
Obviously, this doesn't mean they need to trade him for some garbage return that doesn't improve the team but even a solid starter or two is better than some nutcase refusing to lace up.

ig models have some expensive lifestyles to keep up with.

[User_denied]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

[MotownMadness]

Just take Grant for him

[dhsilv2]

a bit of a different topic regarding this story since philly said they have a list of 30 guys they would deal him for, and they think 5-10 of them will be available soon. with that said, How long can the org. stay solid before either players complain, owners get tired of the story? how long can ben hang on financially? and how much of his prime is he willing to waste? This story is mind boggling.

The quote said they think 5 or 10 out of the 30 will be available in 1 to 2 years. Not sure that should be characterized as soon.

Given his contract length that's soon for sure. I think the logic since day 1 was their best best way the 2022 draft but they might have to wait for the 2023 one.

[dhsilv2]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

Not playing simply has no logical correlation to a value decline here. Given the length of the contract we've never even seen a comp for someone like Simmons so setting the market value here is nearly impossible. This back and fourth between them doesn't add value, but GM's have a long history of being willing to gamble on high risk high reward trades.

At this time there is just no incentive to move Ben for less than one of these 30 players they are targeting.

[Celts17Pride]

Who cares?

[bebopdeluxe]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

Embiid isn't 32. He still has a 4-5 year window where he can be the anchor of a team that can potentially compete for a title. Even if this year isn't a year that they will maximize, the growth of young players like Maxey and Thybulle is incredibly important to the team's long-term potential - and in the absence of Simmons, both of those guys should get a lot of playing time this year to grow their games.

In the overall scheme of things, there are still a lot of potential dates that can lead to a transaction - December 15th (when new contracts can be traded), the trade deadline, or even before the 2022 draft.

#teamchill

[R-DAWG]

one way or another, this situation will be resolved by the trade deadline.

[Pelon chingon]

Pro tip: Think about baseball.

[BNM]

If I was Joel Embiid, I'd be even more furious at Daryl Morey than I am at Ben Simmons. Joel (and Doc) burned the bridges with Ben when he threw him under the bus after the ATL series. That ship has sailed.

What should be even more troubling to Joel is the fact that his GM is perfectly willing to piss away 1 - 2 seasons of his prime just to stick it Ben Simmons.

It was always going to be hard to get "equal value" for Ben. He's a talented, but flawed player on a max contract. Our last collective memory of him on the court is choking massively in the ATL series. This whole pissing contest has done nothing to help Ben's trade value.

PHI is struggling right now and not looking like a contender. There are players/packages today that are available and can help them both short term and long term. Maybe those players/packages aren't equal value to Ben Simmons but they are much, much more valuable than 1 - 2 seasons of Ben not playing while taking up $33 million of your cap space that could be used on players actually willing to play and contribute.

[meekrab]

PHI is struggling right now and not looking like a contender.

They were 8-2 looking like a well-oiled basketball machine before Embiid got Covid, this 5 game losing streak is not representative.

[Harry Garris]

I mean if Philly can't get a decent trade package in return for Simmons they can hold out the rest of his contract. No sense in trading him if the trade isn't going to result in a meaningful improvement in the team's title chances.

This is definitely not how I see it. If he doesn't play this year then his value just goes down. Those advocating on holding Simmons indefinitely feels like they just want to "stick it" to Simmons rather then good asset management.

His value has no way to improve. He won't play and even if he does it's plain to see that it wouldn't go very well. And as for the "teams getting desperate" to make his value go up. This discounts the fact that other teams are involved in bidding and can outbid a devalued Simmons quite easily. So how do you get a star with him by holding on to him?

Holding on to him without a realistic way to increase his value is just lunacy to me. There are still decent (albeit not franchise changing packages) out there that you can combine with your own assets to get their star at a later date.

It's not about teams getting desperate it's about the amount of available contracts there are to trade for him. Players that were signed this offseason aren't eligible to be traded until like late December I believe. And there would obviously be a lot more trade possibilities this offseason.

[payton2kemp]

It depends, if the league/NBAPA forces the Sixers to pay him then Simmons can hold out as long as he wants. If the fines are upheld then the Sixers can hold out longer.

Whoever wins the war of money has the power.

[BNM]

PHI is struggling right now and not looking like a contender.

They were 8-2 looking like a well-oiled basketball machine before Embiid got Covid, this 5 game losing streak is not representative.

A valid point, but you can't get back those lost games. If they'd had someone playing in Ben's place, maybe they don't lose all 5 of them. Having a non-player eating up over $31 million in cap space leaves your roster very thin and unable to compete when your star player is out.

Over the first five seasons of his career, Joel Embiid has missed and average of 26 games per season. If he misses anything close to that this year, what will PHI's record be in games with no Joel, no Ben and no Ben's replacement(s)?