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So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry?

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tecumseh18
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#101 » by tecumseh18 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:34 pm

Badonkadonk wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
douggood wrote:+1

raptors chose birch + achiuwa + dragic over 16 mil cap space. birch signing with mle was only possible by staying over the cap.

looking at the list of ufa who signed for more than mle but less than 16 mil, not many worthy of signings.
rose, mcdormett, olynyk, barton, oubre is basically the list


You're missing the "big" name - Rashaun Holmes, who re-signed with the Kings for FAR less than we could have offered him. Before the Lowry sign and trade was finalized, there were rumours that Raps were in on Holmes.

That's... not how the cap holds would've played out. Richaun* Holmes signed for just enough that you can tell the Kings were looking at who the Raps would have had to renounce (eg. Yuta, Boucher) if they were going to be outbid.

In the theoretical world where the Raps renounced ALL their holds, let Lowry walk and gambled in FA, they could have gambled on Holmes or Allen with the ~$20M or so they'd have, but that wasn't a very realistic scenario.


Not all the holds would have had to have been renounced. Not Trent Jrs.

And Kings were not "bidding" for Richaun Holmes to sign back. They didn't have his Bird or even early Bird rights. They were in the situation Raps were with Biz five years ago. There was an absolute maximum to what they could pay him, and that's what he finally agreed to because the Raps gave up our cap space in the Lowry sign and trade.

If Raps had kept cap space and offered $13 mill, we would have had Holmes, and still had enough cap space left over to re-sign Birch even if he wouldn't agree to the room exception (which he would have).

That's what I wanted to happen, and what should have happened if this franchise wanted to win as many games as possible in the next few years. But apparently, it doesn't.
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#102 » by CANsportsguru » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:34 pm

It really wasn't about who we got in return. It was essentially a gentleman's handshake and a thank you for everything that Kyle did for this organization over the years. He essentially only wanted to go to Miami and was going to be a free agent we got what we got.
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#103 » by Los_29 » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:53 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
You're missing the "big" name - Rashaun Holmes, who re-signed with the Kings for FAR less than we could have offered him. Before the Lowry sign and trade was finalized, there were rumours that Raps were in on Holmes.

That's... not how the cap holds would've played out. Richaun* Holmes signed for just enough that you can tell the Kings were looking at who the Raps would have had to renounce (eg. Yuta, Boucher) if they were going to be outbid.

In the theoretical world where the Raps renounced ALL their holds, let Lowry walk and gambled in FA, they could have gambled on Holmes or Allen with the ~$20M or so they'd have, but that wasn't a very realistic scenario.


Not all the holds would have had to have been renounced. Not Trent Jrs.

And Kings were not "bidding" for Richaun Holmes to sign back. They didn't have his Bird or even early Bird rights. They were in the situation Raps were with Biz five years ago. There was an absolute maximum to what they could pay him, and that's what he finally agreed to because the Raps gave up our cap space in the Lowry sign and trade.

If Raps had kept cap space and offered $13 mill, we would have had Holmes, and still had enough cap space left over to re-sign Birch even if he wouldn't agree to the room exception (which he would have).

That's what I wanted to happen, and what should have happened if this franchise wanted to win as many games as possible in the next few years. But apparently, it doesn't.


There is a reason why Richaun Holmes signed that deal. And it's because there wasn't a market for him. There wasn't a market for him because he's not that good. Signing Holmes does nothing for this team.
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#104 » by douggood » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:13 pm

CANsportsguru wrote:It really wasn't about who we got in return. It was essentially a gentleman's handshake and a thank you for everything that Kyle did for this organization over the years. He essentially only wanted to go to Miami and was going to be a free agent we got what we got.

this had nothing to do with kyle, the miami heat had the cap space to sign him, the trade did not help him sign there. this was the raptors calculation that precious + dragic + birch + bae > 16 mil cap space and room MLE
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#105 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:42 am

Los_29 wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:That's... not how the cap holds would've played out. Richaun* Holmes signed for just enough that you can tell the Kings were looking at who the Raps would have had to renounce (eg. Yuta, Boucher) if they were going to be outbid.

In the theoretical world where the Raps renounced ALL their holds, let Lowry walk and gambled in FA, they could have gambled on Holmes or Allen with the ~$20M or so they'd have, but that wasn't a very realistic scenario.


Not all the holds would have had to have been renounced. Not Trent Jrs.

And Kings were not "bidding" for Richaun Holmes to sign back. They didn't have his Bird or even early Bird rights. They were in the situation Raps were with Biz five years ago. There was an absolute maximum to what they could pay him, and that's what he finally agreed to because the Raps gave up our cap space in the Lowry sign and trade.

If Raps had kept cap space and offered $13 mill, we would have had Holmes, and still had enough cap space left over to re-sign Birch even if he wouldn't agree to the room exception (which he would have).

That's what I wanted to happen, and what should have happened if this franchise wanted to win as many games as possible in the next few years. But apparently, it doesn't.


There is a reason why Richaun Holmes signed that deal. And it's because there wasn't a market for him. There wasn't a market for him because he's not that good. Signing Holmes does nothing for this team.


Well, he's got a PER of almost 24. I guess we'll see tomorrow night (game against Kings).
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#106 » by tecumseh18 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:43 pm

Los_29 wrote:There is a reason why Richaun Holmes signed that deal. And it's because there wasn't a market for him. There wasn't a market for him because he's not that good. Signing Holmes does nothing for this team.


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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#107 » by Los_29 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:09 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Not all the holds would have had to have been renounced. Not Trent Jrs.

And Kings were not "bidding" for Richaun Holmes to sign back. They didn't have his Bird or even early Bird rights. They were in the situation Raps were with Biz five years ago. There was an absolute maximum to what they could pay him, and that's what he finally agreed to because the Raps gave up our cap space in the Lowry sign and trade.

If Raps had kept cap space and offered $13 mill, we would have had Holmes, and still had enough cap space left over to re-sign Birch even if he wouldn't agree to the room exception (which he would have).

That's what I wanted to happen, and what should have happened if this franchise wanted to win as many games as possible in the next few years. But apparently, it doesn't.


There is a reason why Richaun Holmes signed that deal. And it's because there wasn't a market for him. There wasn't a market for him because he's not that good. Signing Holmes does nothing for this team.


Well, he's got a PER of almost 24. I guess we'll see tomorrow night (game against Kings).


PER is a terrible metric to use and Holmes could come out and score 70 points and grab 25 rebounds. Still wouldn't have been a good signing.
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Re: So what COULD we have gotten for Kyle Lowry? 

Post#108 » by Los_29 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:38 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:There is a reason why Richaun Holmes signed that deal. And it's because there wasn't a market for him. There wasn't a market for him because he's not that good. Signing Holmes does nothing for this team.


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Who cares, if he was any good there would've been a market for him and he would've signed for more than 11-12m a year. NBA front offices clearly don't think he's that good of a player.

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