When is Isaac Returning? Ruled out for the entire 2021-2022 season

[basketballRob]

With the way the starting 5 is playing, I kinda hope they bring JI back just to try out for a trade. I don't want him in this starting line-up at all and don't think he's much of an improvement over Okeke off the bench. WCJ is outplaying anything JI ever did at the 4 and Wagner is outplaying anything JI did at the 3.

Trade for a vet with a lower ceiling but way more consistent durability.

Your hate is very transparent.

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Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

Isaac would probably be the best player on this team.

Almost every one of your posts lately has been a subtle dig on Isaac's character or playing ability.

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[Bergmaniac]

With the way the starting 5 is playing, I kinda hope they bring JI back just to try out for a trade. I don't want him in this starting line-up at all and don't think he's much of an improvement over Okeke off the bench. WCJ is outplaying anything JI ever did at the 4 and Wagner is outplaying anything JI did at the 3.

Trade for a vet with a lower ceiling but way more consistent durability.

Your hate is very transparent.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

The obvious answer here is that Isaac will replace Bamba in the starting lineup, not WCJ or Franz.

[Last Guardian]

With the way the starting 5 is playing, I kinda hope they bring JI back just to try out for a trade. I don't want him in this starting line-up at all and don't think he's much of an improvement over Okeke off the bench. WCJ is outplaying anything JI ever did at the 4 and Wagner is outplaying anything JI did at the 3.

Trade for a vet with a lower ceiling but way more consistent durability.

Your hate is very transparent.

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Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

Isaac got 12ppg on decent %'s his last season but apparently he's a "liability" on offense. Where are you coming up with this? Liability describes someone like Suggs or MCW or Harris who can't throw it in the ocean most of the time, not Isaac. Isaac is more like an average offensive player from what he last showed us.

And saying WCJ or Franz are possibly better team defenders is one of the funniest things I've ever read (and Franz is my pick when everyone else hated it). Isaac had this team at #8 best defense in the league with Vuc, DJ Augustine, Fournier, etc. When Isaac got injured they become one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And they still are one of the worst. Are you conveniently forgetting how he could essentially guard the entire opposing team? He deflected passes, rotated to contest (or block shots) and usually completely shut down whoever he was guarding? I'm sorry this take is absolutely crazy. WCJ is slow to react most of the time and doesn't at all defend the rim. Franz is an awesome defender but he doesn't have the elite athletics to cover the ground that Isaac does.

I'm sure Isaac will be off the bench for a while but if he's ever fully healthy you kick WCJ or Bamba out of the lineup and call it a day...its not even close.

[swarlesbarkley]

Your hate is very transparent.

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Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

The obvious answer here is that Isaac will replace Bamba in the starting lineup, not WCJ or Franz.

I question JI's ability to stay healthy in general but especially at the 5. If he can do it - I can see him being an upgrade over Bamba in the SL. But as Skybox noted a few posts ago, WCJ and Bamba are complimenting each other really well right now that even if JI is "better" than either of those 2 individually (I think JI is better than Bamba but not better than WCJ), the WCJ/Bamba combination might be better than JI/WCJ and JI/Bamba.

I wouldn't be suggesting we trade JI if it weren't for the surprising starts of the season from Wagner and WCJ. As it stands right now, both Wagner and WCJ are better 2-way players than JI has ever shown us. 2-way players are more valuable to a team's success than even the top defensive specialist. Sure, JI might grow into a mini-Giannis and dominate both ends of the court, I just don't see it happening anymore. Maybe Coach Mosley can get something out of JI we haven't seen before though.

[basketballRob]

Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

The obvious answer here is that Isaac will replace Bamba in the starting lineup, not WCJ or Franz.

I question JI's ability to stay healthy in general but especially at the 5. If he can do it - I can see him being an upgrade over Bamba in the SL. But as Skybox noted a few posts ago, WCJ and Bamba are complimenting each other really well right now that even if JI is "better" than either of those 2 individually (I think JI is better than Bamba but not better than WCJ), the WCJ/Bamba combination might be better than JI/WCJ and JI/Bamba.

I wouldn't be suggesting we trade JI if it weren't for the surprising starts of the season from Wagner and WCJ. As it stands right now, both Wagner and WCJ are better 2-way players than JI has ever shown us. 2-way players are more valuable to a team's success than even the top defensive specialist. Sure, JI might grow into a mini-Giannis and dominate both ends of the court, I just don't see it happening anymore. Maybe Coach Mosley can get something out of JI we haven't seen before though.

Wagner and WCJ play different positions.

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[swarlesbarkley]

Your hate is very transparent.

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Not hate, homie, just looking at the make up of our team. Our SL is already a top 5 defensive squad. Even if JI bumps up our defensive ratings a bit - what are we losing on the offensive side? Wagner and WCJ are both guys who can knock down jumpers consistently and make the right reads (both cutting and passing). JI is still a liability on the offensive side (unless he's unlocked something during this 16 month stretch). Remember a couple years ago that we were all psyched he hit a pull up jumper against Boston in the 4th quarter. Well, WCJ and Wagner do that consistently. Both Wagner and WCJ are also really solid defenders and possibly better team defenders than JI. They are solid 2-way players already while we're still hoping JI can be a 2-way player. Okeke is the same way - maybe not as high of a defensive ceiling as JI but projects to be a much better offensive player for us who can shoot and distribute.

Not knocking JI's individual defense - he's a beast - one of the best. We get him back and we go from an 8/10 to a 9/10 on defense as a team but then we go from 6/10 to 4/10 on offense.

He could be fine off the bench but then we're in an awkward scenario where our highest paid player is our 6/7th man.

The only path I see for JI being successful with this team is to bulk up and primarily play the 5 and then we move Bamba unless he drastically improves his offensive. He'll be worth way more to us as a trade piece than what he actually gives us on the court.

In terms of draft capital spent on these guys, sure JI was #6 in 2017 but WCJ was #7 in 2018 and Wagner #8 in 2021 - all these guys are around the same level.

Isaac got 12ppg on decent %'s his last season but apparently he's a "liability" on offense. Where are you coming up with this? Liability describes someone like Suggs or MCW or Harris who can't throw it in the ocean most of the time, not Isaac. Isaac is more like an average offensive player from what he last showed us.

And saying WCJ or Franz are possibly better team defenders is one of the funniest things I've ever read (and Franz is my pick when everyone else hated it). Isaac had this team at #8 best defense in the league with Vuc, DJ Augustine, Fournier, etc. When Isaac got injured they become one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And they still are one of the worst. Are you conveniently forgetting how he could essentially guard the entire opposing team? He deflected passes, rotated to contest (or block shots) and usually completely shut down whoever he was guarding? I'm sorry this take is absolutely crazy. WCJ is slow to react most of the time and doesn't at all defend the rim. Franz is an awesome defender but he doesn't have the elite athletics to cover the ground that Isaac does.

I'm sure Isaac will be off the bench for a while but if he's ever fully healthy you kick WCJ or Bamba out of the lineup and call it a day...its not even close.

Maybe "liability" was too strong of a word. JI just isn't a guy we can rely on for consistent offense. Right now we can use Wagner as a ball handler / offense initiator AND run him off screens for 3s. WCJ is a great screen setter who has a reliable jumpshot for pick and pops all the way out to the 3. JI doesn't really do any of those things well.

I'm not denying that JI is a better defender than Wagner and WCJ. But when our starting 5 (Anthony/Suggs/Wagner/WCJ/Bamba) is already a top 5 defensive SL (they were the top last week, not sure where they are right now), adding JI to the lineup might take more away from the SL than he adds.

I do think that a bench of Fultz/Hampton/Ross/Okeke/JI is crazy good so maybe we can make it all work?

I see Fultz taking Suggs spot in the SL way smoother than JI taking WCJ or Wagner. Maybe JI can take Bamba's spot on offense and guard the 4 spot on defense?

[swarlesbarkley]

The obvious answer here is that Isaac will replace Bamba in the starting lineup, not WCJ or Franz.

I question JI's ability to stay healthy in general but especially at the 5. If he can do it - I can see him being an upgrade over Bamba in the SL. But as Skybox noted a few posts ago, WCJ and Bamba are complimenting each other really well right now that even if JI is "better" than either of those 2 individually (I think JI is better than Bamba but not better than WCJ), the WCJ/Bamba combination might be better than JI/WCJ and JI/Bamba.

I wouldn't be suggesting we trade JI if it weren't for the surprising starts of the season from Wagner and WCJ. As it stands right now, both Wagner and WCJ are better 2-way players than JI has ever shown us. 2-way players are more valuable to a team's success than even the top defensive specialist. Sure, JI might grow into a mini-Giannis and dominate both ends of the court, I just don't see it happening anymore. Maybe Coach Mosley can get something out of JI we haven't seen before though.

Wagner and WCJ play different positions.

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Yes. JI has played SF, PF, and C but primarily the PF/4 spot (though it's a little confusing when AG/JI were on the court together and AG played 4 on defense but 3 on offense). I think swapping WCJ for JI in the SL would make us much worse.

[basketballRob]

I question JI's ability to stay healthy in general but especially at the 5. If he can do it - I can see him being an upgrade over Bamba in the SL. But as Skybox noted a few posts ago, WCJ and Bamba are complimenting each other really well right now that even if JI is "better" than either of those 2 individually (I think JI is better than Bamba but not better than WCJ), the WCJ/Bamba combination might be better than JI/WCJ and JI/Bamba.

I wouldn't be suggesting we trade JI if it weren't for the surprising starts of the season from Wagner and WCJ. As it stands right now, both Wagner and WCJ are better 2-way players than JI has ever shown us. 2-way players are more valuable to a team's success than even the top defensive specialist. Sure, JI might grow into a mini-Giannis and dominate both ends of the court, I just don't see it happening anymore. Maybe Coach Mosley can get something out of JI we haven't seen before though.

Wagner and WCJ play different positions.

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Yes. JI has played SF, PF, and C but primarily the PF/4 spot (though it's a little confusing when AG/JI were on the court together and AG played 4 on defense but 3 on offense). I think swapping WCJ for JI in the SL would make us much worse.

Bamba would go to the bench.

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[J the Drafter]

Surely the way to get our best players on the floor together is Bamba/Carter/Franz/Isaac/Cole? The only reason to take one of Bamba or Carter off the floor is that you want to keep Franz in the starting lineup and you’re convinced neither he nor JI can cover shooting guards.

[Knightro]

I don't expect any starting lineup changes right away. The starters are still doing well together and I suspect they'll work Fultz and Suggs in slowly.

What I do expect is Gary Harris and Moe Wagner to be out of the rotation once Fultz and Isaac are ready.

Something like this...

Starters: Anthony/Suggs/Wagner/Carter/Bamba
Reserves: Fultz/Hampton/Ross/Okeke/Isaac

If Isaac comes back and looks really good really quickly, then maybe you can look into moving him into the starting lineup. But I think it's going to be a while.

[Skybox]

End of the season lineup...

Suggs/Fultz/MCW
Franz/Anthony/RJ
Isaac/TRoss
WCJ/Okeke/Moe
Bamba/RoLo

...there would be loads of mixed lineups (WCJ or even some Isaac at C with a 3 Guard lineup?) and, honestly, trades. I don't expect to see 3 or 4 guys after the Trade Deadline-just not sure who yet. Defensively, that's a video game starting lineup...offensively, not sure yet, but if the three bigs can shoot 35+% from 3 while Suggs & Franz drive and kick (and also shoot 35+% from 3), it's on...still not sure where or how worthy guys like Anthony, RJ, and Fultz get their minutes, but you got to go with your best lineups. I could definitely see RJ being moved, along with TRoss, Harris' deal, etc. I really think Fultz is better than this but he won't have much trade value until he proves he's healthy. He and (the new & improved) Cole is a pretty formidable backcourt...I'm assuming significant steady improvement from Suggs between now and then.

[MasterGMer]

If Isaac indeed comes back, I predict he will come off the bench in the early part of his return.

But I wish and hope Isaac returns to the starting lineup, Bamba would come off the bench and JI will start at 4. He will complement WCJ and provide elite defense and that is what this team is built upon- defense.

I agree he might be a liability on offense, but he is OKay and he has length.

I do expect several trades at trade deadline next year.

I just want this team to win and that is how you grow. Losing on purpose will not help player development

[KillMonger]

Weird situation, if it was up to him he'd be playing already. If he feels he's ready to go then why are they holding him back? Does it have anything to do with the elephant in the room?

[MagicStarwipe]

It's because if he comes back too soon and has another major injury it's almost kiss your career goodbye time. Then his stock drops around the league and he becomes a negative asset.

I personally think his game has been romanticised by people during his absence. He's a special, special defender. His offensive game is pretty limited. Not a playmaker, not much of a shot creator, not a reliable threat from 3 (don't know if I've seen a guy hit the side of the backboard on jumpers as often as he does before). He injured himself on a selfish play on a fast break trying to get his when his teammate was wide open and had an easy bucket. It's really a question mark what type of player we're going to get when he returns.

[PrimeThyme]

If Isaac comes back and looks really good really quickly, then maybe you can look into moving him into the starting lineup. But I think it's going to be a while.

In my opinion, If Isaac looks really good, then he will be starting in Bamba's place within 10 games. We have the long-term commitment to Isaac, && if he is healthy, he's just the better player anyways and is a seamless fit next to WCJ.

[Magic_Kingdom]

Weird situation, if it was up to him he'd be playing already. If he feels he's ready to go then why are they holding him back? Does it have anything to do with the elephant in the room?

Did I miss something? Did Isaac say if it was up to him he would be playing right now?

If that is true, then the team is holding him out for one of two reasons: 1) tanking; 2) concern over his durability. When he came back from his last knee injury he immediately suffered a more serious knee injury.

There is no doubt Isaac is talented and if healthy I think he improves the team. But he is completely unreliable and even if he comes back does anyone here really believe he would finish the season healthy? And if you do, what evidence do you base that on?

We also don't know how he's going to play when he returns. He's been out of basketball for one full season and parts of two other seasons since the last time he took the court. He's going to have to get back into game shape, they might have him on minutes restrictions, his shot will be rusty. Will he jump the same in his fifth season following multiple knee and ankle injuries? Has he been working on his game? You can't project anything with this guy, it's a complete unknown.

[swarlesbarkley]

Weird situation, if it was up to him he'd be playing already. If he feels he's ready to go then why are they holding him back? Does it have anything to do with the elephant in the room?

Did I miss something? Did Isaac say if it was up to him he would be playing right now?

If that is true, then the team is holding him out for one of two reasons: 1) tanking; 2) concern over his durability. When he came back from his last knee injury he immediately suffered a more serious knee injury.

There is no doubt Isaac is talented and if healthy I think he improves the team. But he is completely unreliable and even if he comes back does anyone here really believe he would finish the season healthy? And if you do, what evidence do you base that on?

We also don't know how he's going to play when he returns. He's been out of basketball for one full season and parts of two other seasons since the last time he took the court. He's going to have to get back into game shape, they might have him on minutes restrictions, his shot will be rusty. Will he jump the same in his fifth season following multiple knee and ankle injuries? Has he been working on his game? You can't project anything with this guy, it's a complete unknown.

JI has mentioned twice now publicly (I think) that he's ready and wants to come back.

Though, what else is he going to say? My bones are brittle and take 2x longer than the average athlete to recover? I'd take what JI says about his status with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I do think it's concerning that he's not playing if he's medically cleared and JI is telling the team he's ready and wants to play. Why wouldn't WeHam/Mosley want to see how he gels with all the new guys?

Your last paragraph is where I think JI is probably worth more as a trade piece than what his current skillset brings the team. Unless he's greatly improved his offensive game, he's not going to move the needle with this team. We have a team full of solid to great defenders and most of them have more offensive skill than JI. But also, we might be able to trade him on ceiling/upside if the team already knows he doesn't gel or doesn't move the needle with this squad.

For the record, I'm not saying JI is disposable - just thinking in terms of asset management he might be able to fetch a better asset for us than he's worth with us.

[AaronB]

Weird situation, if it was up to him he'd be playing already. If he feels he's ready to go then why are they holding him back? Does it have anything to do with the elephant in the room?

Did I miss something? Did Isaac say if it was up to him he would be playing right now?

If that is true, then the team is holding him out for one of two reasons: 1) tanking; 2) concern over his durability. When he came back from his last knee injury he immediately suffered a more serious knee injury.

There is no doubt Isaac is talented and if healthy I think he improves the team. But he is completely unreliable and even if he comes back does anyone here really believe he would finish the season healthy? And if you do, what evidence do you base that on?

We also don't know how he's going to play when he returns. He's been out of basketball for one full season and parts of two other seasons since the last time he took the court. He's going to have to get back into game shape, they might have him on minutes restrictions, his shot will be rusty. Will he jump the same in his fifth season following multiple knee and ankle injuries? Has he been working on his game? You can't project anything with this guy, it's a complete unknown.

Standard Operating Procedure is for medical staff to determine when a player is ready to return to contact drills and ultimately games.

In this case, they are probably looking for a degree of flexibility and strength in that leg (or rather a balance of flexibility and strength between the 2 legs).

When they get it, they will OK him to proceed.

[logical_art]

Any chance the Magic might look to move Isaac? Bulls fan here, and we desperately need a PF...

[basketballRob]

Any chance the Magic might look to move Isaac? Bulls fan here, and we desperately need a PF...

I doubt it they just signed him to a 4 yr extension. If they did move him it would be a couple of years from now.

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