Mo Bamba- a keeper?

[orthoman]

I realize there is another post on predicting Mo's next contract, so pardon me here; I just want to see how the Forum is feeling
about Bamba so far this season.

He's playing alot of minutes, so just by nature of minutes played and his size, he is scoring points and getting rebounds.

TO ME, he's just a thin, lanky player who does not excel in any facet of the game. He meanders up and down the court and plays with no passion or urgency. He's not tough in the paint and lets opposing big's muscle by him all the time. So be it that he can hit a few 3's every now and then...that's not what we need him for.

Are we playing him to "showcase" him for a trade? Are we playing him because JI is still out? Do we see what JI can do before deciding on Mo's fate? Lastly, has he shown skills/improvement to the point where he is a keeper, long term, on this team?

Thanks for some responses.

[89Magicfan]

I realize there is another post on predicting Mo's next contract, so pardon me here; I just want to see how the Forum is feeling
about Bamba so far this season.

He's playing alot of minutes, so just by nature of minutes played and his size, he is scoring points and getting rebounds.

TO ME, he's just a thin, lanky player who does not excel in any facet of the game. He meanders up and down the court and plays with no passion or urgency. He's not tough in the paint and lets opposing big's muscle by him all the time. So be it that he can hit a few 3's every now and then...that's not what we need him for.

Are we playing him to "showcase" him for a trade? Are we playing him because JI is still out? Do we see what JI can do before deciding on Mo's fate? Lastly, has he shown skills/improvement to the point where he is a keeper, long term, on this team?

Thanks for some responses.

Too early

[Last Guardian]

He's too soft IMO but I'm curious what he and Isaac can be together. If there is one thing he is great at its rim protection from driving guards (when he feels like it). He might be best defensive player against floaters in the league. He just can't guard other bigs at all. They get position on him and he just gives up immediately. Not sure you can teach pride and competitiveness. Compare it to Suggs...he struggles a lot but he simply needs to learn more and the game will slow down...but he's not even remotely soft. You don't have to "teach" Suggs how to compete.

[JTG_92940618]

Right now it's a no from me.

The negatives for keeping Bamba are:
- We're probably going to be drafting a PF or C with our prized pick
- We have Isaac coming back shortly and Isaac is good at Bamba's biggest strength - rim protection
- Mo playing well in a contract year after not looking that interested for the previous 3 seasons is the mother of all red flags
- Mo doesn't look amazingly interested this year either
- Wendell has him covered on basically everything (rebounding, screening, shooting, post defence, defensive versatility, passing) but not rim protection, and this season it's not close.

So, if everything goes as expected, next season Bamba will be behind Isaac, Wendell, and our probable draft pick. 4th in line isn't bad for Bamba as a PF/C but we'll also probably want a smaller line-up option too so add Okeke/Franz to that list as a PF. Now being 5th in line isn't so great and we're not going to pay him as much money to be 5th as some other team will to be 4th or 3rd in line.

Having said that, if smaller draft prospects begin to pop and/or if Isaac looks horrible, things might change here. Likewise, if Bamba pushes past Wendell, I'll have to reconsider.

[FFBlitzace]

I believe he is, but of course it will depend on the price tag. It's hard to predict what kind of offer sheet a team might throw at him.

[Bensational]

I’d keep him until we have someone who can replace him. To me, that isn’t Isaac since he hasn’t proven to be durable enough to rely on. It’s not WCJ because we don’t get enough rim protection from him. And right now, most draft pick bigs look like equally as big projects.

If he’s not a keeper we need to flip him rather than let him walk, and ideally get another young prospect back in return. I’m not sure who that is. Sacramento might move Bagley and Mitchell for him? Houston might swap Garuba or Sengun for him.

[Xatticus]

He's obviously a prospect. He has an elite skill and his skill set as a whole is very intriguing. Whether or not he is a long-term piece remains to be seen, but I would rely heavily on the input I get from Mosley.

There is a saying in soccer that I believe translates to any sport: You don't really learn to play the game until your legs start to go.

When you don't have the talent, you have to learn how to play the right way to build a career. Those are the guys that end up being good coaches. Mosley knows this. Mosley was a big that lacked any discernible talents. I'm sure he knows how great Bamba could be and he knows what Bamba needs to know to achieve that. I'm sure that Mosley is trying to impart his wisdom to Bamba. Mosley will know better than anyone how that process is going. There is progress to be seen for anyone that cares to look and we should know quite a bit more by the end of the season.

I'm not letting Bamba go simply because of a potential roster crunch. Having too much talent is the sort of problem you want to have. Ultimately it is going to come down to how the money intersects with the expectations. Getting the WCJ deal done early should simplify the negotiations though. If Bamba wants to stay, he should have a pretty good idea of what kind of contract he will need to agree to. If he doesn't, he can just demand more and our front office will have to move on.

[PrimeThyme]

I feel like I won't be able to give a definitive answer on this until the lottery balls drop.

By then we will know where we stand with Isaac, && we'll also have a feel for the upcoming draft class that is expected to be heavy with bigs at the top.

I lean towards no, at this stage, but that could certainly change if we get to free agency and Isaac hasn't played or he's been hurt again. If we fall outside of the Paulo/Chet range things could change as well. It's just too early for me to tell at the moment. Bamba has made tangible improvements this year and his skillset is valuable, but I don't view him as a core piece.

[Max Power]

This is a difficult question to answer, while Mo has played miles better this year, he still has a long way to go to prove he deserves to be resigned, especially considering our likely high pick in a big heavy draft. On the other hand I’m still of the belief this team needs a legit 2/3 first.

[The Real Dalic]

While Bamba has clearly been a bit better this year, especially in those first 4 games, I'd have to say no.

Still too many of the same issues I've had with him from the beginning. Just not that impressed. Will cheer for him while he's here and continue to hope for improvement though.

[DSN1423]

He's obviously a prospect. He has an elite skill and his skill set as a whole is very intriguing. Whether or not he is a long-term piece remains to be seen, but I would rely heavily on the input I get from Mosley.

There is a saying in soccer that I believe translates to any sport: You don't really learn to play the game until your legs start to go.

When you don't have the talent, you have to learn how to play the right way to build a career. Those are the guys that end up being good coaches. Mosley knows this. Mosley was a big that lacked any discernible talents. I'm sure he knows how great Bamba could be and he knows what Bamba needs to know to achieve that. I'm sure that Mosley is trying to impart his wisdom to Bamba. Mosley will know better than anyone how that process is going. There is progress to be seen for anyone that cares to look and we should know quite a bit more by the end of the season.

I'm not letting Bamba go simply because of a potential roster crunch. Having too much talent is the sort of problem you want to have. Ultimately it is going to come down to how the money intersects with the expectations. Getting the WCJ deal done early should simplify the negotiations though. If Bamba wants to stay, he should have a pretty good idea of what kind of contract he will need to agree to. If he doesn't, he can just demand more and our front office will have to move on.

I can tell you first hand Mosely was a forward with very little skill in his day. He had a knack for rebounding playing physical with aggression and trying to finish everything with a dunk. Think of a poor mans Trez Harrell. You had to bring focus when defending him or he will cut to the hoop or get an o board…

He was an import in the Australian league who came off the bench (pretty unheard for an import) but was successful due to how hard he played and how intense he was.

I was a young 17 year old training with his Victoria Titans team (my high school coach was the assistant coach and brother of the head coach of the Titans) and can vouch for his intensity and hard nosed approach to the game.

Think I still have a click in my jaw from one of his elbows I received!!

If he can’t connect with Mo or feels Mo won’t reach his potential due to a poor work ethic or mentality than you can kiss Bamba goodbye. Mosely’s opinion should really hold sway on Mo’s future and what we do with him. No good having him locked up for 3-4 more years if Mosely believes he can’t help us win games night in and night out as it will just become a Clifford type situation again where we play less talented but hard working players over him.

This year there isn’t any pressure on how many wins, so Bamba and co. Can play it out. Next year there will be pressure to be fairly better than this years record which means an expectation to win games which ultimately will lead to Mosley playing those he trusts to help deliver those results.

[pepe1991]

Why?

I mean, guy esencially plays same role Isaac will be playing as soon as he is back and ready to play more than 15 mpg.

He offers nothing as traditional center, his pick&roll game is shameful (1,1 percentile, literally the worst , even Jeff Green is better rolling big than him ). His lack of inside presence is best viewed through his FTs. Guy failed to get to FT line in 5 of last 6 games, including last 3 games in a row.
All he wants to do is shoot 3s. Okey. if he is actually great shooter. But standing at career >34% three point shot, being wide open on <90% attemps, he simply isn't that guy who will be out there popping 3s like Porzingis or Towns.

And even if you want to play him as "modern" center, he does not have stamina nor motor to be running transitions. He scores 0,4 points a game from transition. 19 points total so far.


So basically, he is very similar to Isaac, he just lacks energy, tenacity, sharpness and mobility.

And even if you look per100 or advanced numbers, there is hardly anything that Bamba improved in his game since his rookie year. And guy is in his 4th. Those "i'll treat this as rookie year" talk is silly talk and holds no value. Bamba was backup because he never showed that he is more than that. This year just reforged that, since he isn't even best center on his own team, in starting lineup.



We drafted for upside, upside that wasn't there, it happends, time to move on.

[basketballRob]

Why?

I mean, guy esencially plays same role Isaac will be playing as soon as he is back and ready to play more than 15 mpg.

He offers nothing as traditional center, his pick&roll game is shameful (1,1 percentile, literally the worst , even Jeff Green is better rolling big than him ). His lack of inside presence is best viewed through his FTs. Guy failed to get to FT line in 5 of last 6 games, including last 3 games in a row.
All he wants to do is shoot 3s. Okey. if he is actually great shooter. But standing at career >34% three point shot, being wide open on <90% attemps, he simply isn't that guy who will be out there popping 3s like Porzingis or Towns.

And even if you want to play him as "modern" center, he does not have stamina nor motor to be running transitions. He scores 0,4 points a game from transition. 19 points total so far.


So basically, he is very similar to Isaac, he just lacks energy, tenacity, sharpness and mobility.

And even if you look per100 or advanced numbers, there is hardly anything that Bamba improved in his game since his rookie year. And guy is in his 4th. Those "i'll treat this as rookie year" talk is silly talk and holds no value. Bamba was backup because he never showed that he is more than that. This year just reforged that, since he isn't even best center on his own team, in starting lineup.



We drafted for upside, upside that wasn't there, it happends, time to move on.

If we can sign him for around 4 yrs 35m and the final year is not fully guaranteed, it would be worth keeping him.

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[drsd]

We drafted for upside, upside that wasn't there, it happends, time to move on.

Currently Bamba is the 32nd Center by PER. This is on line with players such as Jaxson Hayes, Mitchell Robinson, and Dewayne Dedmon.

If we see Bamba in light of that sort of output, then a three year 15M deal seems appropriate to his stat line.
His CARMELO rating also has him as a multi-year player worth 5M a year: CARMELO for Bamba link
He will get more than that, of course. So the question is whether Bamba will sign the 2 year 18M type offer that he will be presented.

Where I agree with pepe: we can no longer see Bamba as an upside player. He is a 11/2/9 player and should never be projected to be more than that.


p.s. for those asking about "winning the Vučević trade", he has a PER below Bamba. Hmm.

..

[pepe1991]

We drafted for upside, upside that wasn't there, it happends, time to move on.

Currently Bamba is the 32nd Center by PER. This is on line with players such as Jaxson Hayes, Mitchell Robinson, and Dewayne Dedmon.

If we see Bamba in light of that sort of output, then a three year 15M deal seems appropriate to his stat line.
His CARMELO rating also has him as a multi-year player worth 5M a year: CARMELO for Bamba link
He will get more than that, of course. So the question is whether Bamba will sign the 2 year 18M type offer that he will be presented.

Where I agree with pepe: we can no longer see Bamba as an upside player. He is a 11/2/9 player and should never be projected to be more than that.


p.s. for those asking about "winning the Vučević trade", he has a PER below Bamba. Hmm.

..

Bamba just yells emergency starter / career backup C. I mean, when Isaac returns ,he is prime candidate to ride bench of what it shapes to be second worst team in conference.


As for Vuc, i don't know why i'm always tagged along his name
Guy has been awful at shooting, but has +6,1 net rating and they are 2-2 without him, 8-3 with him. Even when he is missing s*** loud of easy shots ,he still leads them in rebounds and is top 3 in assists, points, steals and blocks.


Bulls are interesting team in sense that lot of players they have are viewed as "not winners" like Lavine , Derozan or Vuc, but all 3 are allstars and it will be interesting to see how much winning they will achive.
I was never fan of Derozan but amount of hate that guy was reciving for "lack of sucess" despite being best- or at worst- second best player on team who's ceiling always was- lose to Lebron was ridicilous. They lost in ECF and two times in second rounds, all 3 times vs Lebron. Like okey, that's not amazing, but in same time you are losing to probably top 2 player in history, what's so awful about it? It's like blaming Patrick Ewing for not being able to surpass Bulls led by Jordan. Simply unfair critic.

But, in my opinion most interesting teams this year are 76ers and Nets because they both sit their +30M megastars for different stupid reasons

[Skybox]

I admit I'm losing my faith in Bamba long-term. I still feel he didn't have the best situation with Clifford and Vuc's ascent at the same time but the more analysis I read and ponder this year, the more I think he's not our guy for long. DSN1423's Mosley history lesson is fascinating, especially when we remember the first thing we saw Mosley doing upon being hired was banging with Mo in an empty gym. Coach must be near tears looking at Mo and saying "If I had had that kid's body...". The WCJ/Bamba combo has been good, but I'm kind of convinced that Isaac steps more productively into Mo's spot than WCJ's. I don't know if Mo's a guy we marginalize for the rest of the season, re-sign on the cheap, and keep around as a third big...more likely, he's moved around the Trade Deadline, to a team that still believes they can be the ones to unlock his cheat codes. I don't think ATL needs him, but maybe something (3 teamer?) gets up Cam Reddish, who I think is a similar-value, high-upside guy who may or may not bloom in a different environment.

[Optimus_Steel]

He is the worst pick and roll player in the league. That's all we need to know to make the determination, MO makes this an easy decision.

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[otownflava21]

With Isaac out of the picture, I would keep Bamba. Whether we draft another Center next season or not. We will cross that bridge later on.

But as long as Isaac is not around, we should keep Bamba. He is our only rim protector, and keeps other bigs out of the paint with his 3pt threat. That amounts to some significance.

When/if Isaac returns, then we need to move somebody. Thankfully by that point we would have showcased Bamba/WCJ enough to hopefully warrant some meaningful return. I believe there should be a short trial period where we experiment all 3 players (Isaac, Bamba, WCJ) together for a stint to see how they all look. If something special doesn't come out of it then Bamba or someone has to be traded before the deadline, IMO.

[thelead]

I find it funny that JI's return is influencing opinions here. 'Once JI is back'... like he is ever healthy... You can't bank on JI's health right now. Maybe if he goes 2 full years without getting a serious injury should we look at him in that light. We need Mo's length. The key is to not overpay.

[yoyojw17]

I believe he is, but of course it will depend on the price tag. It's hard to predict what kind of offer sheet a team might throw at him.

Agreed. I stated a while back... if we could wrap them both up at similar prices.... I would be totally down....4 years of starter and back up C play at improving levels. Why not! Injuries won't effect us.... etc. WE NEED TALENT... and retain them at the best price possible.