Wiseman will make us worse

GunnerWRX · Post #61 » by **GunnerWRX** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:47 pm

Hope this thread keeps running and piling it on. Those all-in/trade everything for *any* half-decent flawed players, go for the next backup PG Wanamaker style threads all back-fired big time and look at where we are!

I am not even a Wiseman fanboy but the hate is strong here.

xdrta+ · Post #62 » by **xdrta+** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:55 pm

GunnerWRX wrote:Hope this thread keeps running and piling it on. Those all-in/trade everything for *any* half-decent flawed players, go for the next backup PG Wanamaker style threads all back-fired big time and look at where we are!

I am not even a Wiseman fanboy but the hate is strong here.

Sorry, but if you're not trashing Wiseman (trade him, keep him in the G league, etc.) you're a fanboy promoting the "Wiseman agenda."

GunnerWRX · Post #63 » by **GunnerWRX** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:58 pm

xdrta+ wrote:Sorry, but if you're not trashing Wiseman (trade him, keep him in the G league, etc.) you're a fanboy promoting the "Wiseman agenda."

clyde21 · Post #64 » by **clyde21** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:27 pm

im not sure why trading Wiseman is seen as this extremist viewpoint. some people recognize that he's not a great fit here, and if we can get something back that can help us in the next 2-3 yrs more than Wiseman can...whats the prob?

DonaldSanders · Post #65 » by **DonaldSanders** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:59 pm

clyde21 wrote:im not sure why trading Wiseman is seen as this extremist viewpoint. some people recognize that he's not a great fit here, and if we can get something back that can help us in the next 2-3 yrs more than Wiseman can...whats the prob?

I don't know about extremist but it's not really a realistic thing before he gets on the court again to trade him. From our perspective you'd be selling at what is most certainly an all-time low for Wiseman. He cannot get worse than last season and nobody really values him highly, so who is giving up anything decent right now? Even if he's barely progressed he'll do better on this year's team which can hide his weaknesses much better.

What we need to do is see if Wiseman can be a player for us -- he really should be capable of being a rich man's Kevon Looney. Stop trying to have him shoot 3s/space the floor (35% of his shots last year were from 10ft+ vs. Looney's 13.5% this year), have him do the easy things a 7 footer can do for us. Rebound, box out, set screens, run the floor, dunk lobs, defend.

It seems like he either isn't an IQ fit to be more than a Looney for us or it will take a long time for it to sink in. He doesn't quite fit us now, but he could. Either way I think he'll look better than he does now to other teams once he gets some time -- we'll know more if we want to keep him & other teams likely will value him more than they do now.

clyde21 · Post #66 » by **clyde21** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:46 am

the problem with the whole 'lets wait till he gets on the court again' is that what happens if he gets on the court and it still terrible and a bad fit here? you'd be actively making his trade value worse.

at this point, we have enough knowledge to know he's not a great fit here. we knew this before the draft and it's pretty obvious. does he have utility? sure. that doesn't mean we should ignore the fit issues.

shazam_guy · Post #67 » by **shazam_guy** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:37 am

Yeah, so hating on him constantly is improving his trade value?

And as to the other comments, we don't know anything of the sort. Saying "we" in these statements is like using "everybody knows" as a citation. It doesn't make it true, and it just annoys those who disagree -- in this case, me.

Nvnervous45 · Post #68 » by **Nvnervous45** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:22 am

I'm glad some people claim to know if james wiseman's style of play is a good or a bad fit for the warriors. At age 20 im not even sure james wiseman knows what his "style of play" is yet!

GQ Hot Dog · Post #69 » by **GQ Hot Dog** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:10 am

clyde21 wrote:the problem with the whole 'lets wait till he gets on the court again' is that what happens if he gets on the court and it still terrible and a bad fit here? you'd be actively making his trade value worse.

at this point, we have enough knowledge to know he's not a great fit here. we knew this before the draft and it's pretty obvious. does he have utility? sure. that doesn't mean we should ignore the fit issues.

The safe assumption is that Wiseman will show improvement even if he still doesn't fit what we're doing. Therefore we need to get him back playing to show his improvement even if it's only as a sales demonstration.

What we may find is that his likely improvement allows him to carve out a role in the rotation at which point trading him is less important.

Either way, the only rational way forward is to get him back on the court.

The-Power · Post #70 » by **The-Power** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:58 pm

Wiseman when healthy and correctly used will be a valuable player for us. Will he turn out to be a player worth the second overall pick? That's a different question. But again, there is no reason to assume that Wiseman cannot give us some solid minutes soon – once his role fits his ability and he gains a bit more experience in our system and the NBA – when freaking Kevon Looney and JaVale McGee can do that.

Just calm down and let this young, inexperienced big man play some more minutes first. But some among us just love know-jerk reactions and/or ‘I told you so’ moments, even though those following the draft – and the Warriors as a team in particular – over the years should well know that it's too early to claim credit.

EvanZ · Post #71 » by **EvanZ** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:58 pm

Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

sjballer03 · Post #72 » by **sjballer03** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:38 pm

EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Anti Wiseman Agenda alert! Aka the Lamelo Agenda :lol:

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #73 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:52 pm

Wiseman needs to get to Santa Cruz and start playing. I have hopes of him being useful by playoff time.

GSWFan1994 · Post #74 » by **GSWFan1994** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:11 pm

EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Didn't you improve, as a person, since you were 19 years old?

WarriorGM · Post #75 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:53 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Didn't you improve, as a person, since you were 19 years old?

Athletic peak for most people is 18 or so I've heard.

Scoots1994 · Post #76 » by **Scoots1994** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:57 pm

EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Sure, because when teenagers get a year of professional training and coaching they usually don't improve.

GSWFan1994 · Post #77 » by **GSWFan1994** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:21 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
GSWFan1994 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Didn't you improve, as a person, since you were 19 years old?

Athletic peak for most people is 18 or so I've heard.

Of course it's not. There are countless examples throughout sports' history showing the athletic peak can be either from 25-28 or even 28-32 years.

... and even if it were, it wasn't the matter of the question anyway.

WarriorGM · Post #78 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:08 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
GSWFan1994 wrote:
Didn't you improve, as a person, since you were 19 years old?

Athletic peak for most people is 18 or so I've heard.

Of course it's not. There are countless examples throughout sports' history showing the athletic peak can be either from 25-28 or even 28-32 years.

... and even if it were, it wasn't the matter of the question anyway.

That's for physically active people. But for most? After leaving school there is less structure ensuring regular physical activity.

Anyway you were addressing EvanZ. It was a tongue-in-cheek response from me.

EvanZ · Post #79 » by **EvanZ** » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:03 am

GSWFan1994 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Didn't you improve, as a person, since you were 19 years old?

I didn't think it needed to be said that I'm talking about *this season*. And no between age 19 and 20 I didn't really improve that much.

EvanZ · Post #80 » by **EvanZ** » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:05 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Wiseman was one of the worst players in the NBA last season. It's unlikely after missing SL and training camp and the first 20 or 30 games of the season he's going to be a whole lot better.

Sure, because when teenagers get a year of professional training and coaching they usually don't improve.

The key phrase which you apparently didn't read or chose to conveniently ignore was "a whole lot better". And they don't always improve. Smailagic was a teenager and was bad in year 1 and year 2. You can't just assume every player ever will massively improve from year 1 to year 2.