The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread - New Thread Soon Part 2

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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1001 » by trickshot » Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:19 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Baski wrote:Appreciate the answers. So basically hopes aren't too high but don't count em out completely.

But then I'm seeing a lot of you guys' PO lineups having Westbrook in them, and that reads to me as an automatic non-title. Am I being too hard on the guy?


I think Westbrook has shown signs of deferring. I think if he can play less on ball offensively and save his elite motor for defense then he will slot in.

Everyone needs to remember that on Houston and Washington it took Westbrook half a season to click with the team.

Actually noticed he has toned down his touches and rebound lurking but still doesn't dedicate any of that motor to defense. Last game saw Carmelo close out two shooters alone while Westbrook just stood in the paint. This instance was egregiously bad because he should have been the 2nd rotation, he should even have made the pre-rotation because it was obvious from the setup where the extra pass was going. I've never seen a guard so averse to contributing to the perimeter defense and rotations. Can't make threes but loves to give them away.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1002 » by Slava » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:01 pm

donnieme wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Baski wrote:Appreciate the answers. So basically hopes aren't too high but don't count em out completely.

But then I'm seeing a lot of you guys' PO lineups having Westbrook in them, and that reads to me as an automatic non-title. Am I being too hard on the guy?


I think Westbrook has shown signs of deferring. I think if he can play less on ball offensively and save his elite motor for defense then he will slot in.

Everyone needs to remember that on Houston and Washington it took Westbrook half a season to click with the team.

Actually noticed he has toned down his touches and rebound lurking but still doesn't dedicate any of that motor to defense. Last game saw Carmelo close out two shooters alone while Westbrook just stood in the paint. This instance was egregiously bad because he should have been the 2nd rotation, he should even have made the pre-rotation because it was obvious from the setup where the extra pass was going. I've never seen a guard so averse to contributing to the perimeter defense and rotations. Can't make threes but loves to give them away.


Westbrook is such a bad fit, especially for his defense, rather than anything on offense or a lack of spacing. Vogel and the Lakers made their bones on being the best defensive team by nailing every single rotation on every single possession on defense. When you take an offense out of their plan A, B & C, its suffocating. That kind of defense only works when every player is committed to it.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1003 » by zimpy27 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:10 pm

Slava wrote:
donnieme wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
I think Westbrook has shown signs of deferring. I think if he can play less on ball offensively and save his elite motor for defense then he will slot in.

Everyone needs to remember that on Houston and Washington it took Westbrook half a season to click with the team.

Actually noticed he has toned down his touches and rebound lurking but still doesn't dedicate any of that motor to defense. Last game saw Carmelo close out two shooters alone while Westbrook just stood in the paint. This instance was egregiously bad because he should have been the 2nd rotation, he should even have made the pre-rotation because it was obvious from the setup where the extra pass was going. I've never seen a guard so averse to contributing to the perimeter defense and rotations. Can't make threes but loves to give them away.


Westbrook is such a bad fit, especially for his defense, rather than anything on offense or a lack of spacing. Vogel and the Lakers made their bones on being the best defensive team by nailing every single rotation on every single possession on defense. When you take an offense out of their plan A, B & C, its suffocating. That kind of defense only works when every player is committed to it.


Westbrook has been putting together a string of good defense games. I think he will get there consistently eventually.

Lakers losing Caruso, KCP, Gasol in one offseason has hurt the defense a lot.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1004 » by trickshot » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:37 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Slava wrote:
donnieme wrote:Actually noticed he has toned down his touches and rebound lurking but still doesn't dedicate any of that motor to defense. Last game saw Carmelo close out two shooters alone while Westbrook just stood in the paint. This instance was egregiously bad because he should have been the 2nd rotation, he should even have made the pre-rotation because it was obvious from the setup where the extra pass was going. I've never seen a guard so averse to contributing to the perimeter defense and rotations. Can't make threes but loves to give them away.


Westbrook is such a bad fit, especially for his defense, rather than anything on offense or a lack of spacing. Vogel and the Lakers made their bones on being the best defensive team by nailing every single rotation on every single possession on defense. When you take an offense out of their plan A, B & C, its suffocating. That kind of defense only works when every player is committed to it.


Westbrook has been putting together a string of good defense games. I think he will get there consistently eventually.

Lakers losing Caruso, KCP, Gasol in one offseason has hurt the defense a lot.

Good is probably stretching the Bucks performance. His team defense in the 1st half of the Bucks game was atrocious. The reason it didn't stand out very frequently was he was stashed on George Hill who barely moved from the corner and the Bucks are more stagnant, however when he had to move or rotate he was lazy as ever. The possessions from 3:56 - 4:16 show a player who won't rotate even when his teammates are flying around trying to get a stop.



I'd especially highlight the one at 3:56, he and Bradley both gravitate to protect the paint, Bradley goes back to his man in the corner (fundamental help and recover move), Westbrook stays ballwatching and takes himself out of the possession. The result is an open 3 where he barely even makes a closeout. This might only be one possession but it's a microcosm of issues that have plagued the perimeter defense all season. An issue Westbrook compounds immensely. When the games are tight he's so eager to get the ball back he seems to forget about the other end. Part of why he becomes worse in those situations. Sometimes I feel like everyone who coached Westbrook to turn out the way he did need to be jailed.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1005 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:47 am

Would prefer starting Ellington over Bradley, but not too bad. Vogel getting close to the ideal rotation
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1006 » by letskissbro » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:51 am

MisterHibachi wrote:Would prefer starting Ellington over Bradley, but not too bad. Vogel getting close to the ideal rotation


Is starting only 1 real shooter really ideal though?
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1007 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:00 am

letskissbro wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:Would prefer starting Ellington over Bradley, but not too bad. Vogel getting close to the ideal rotation


Is starting only 1 real shooter really ideal though?


Well, I think THT deserves the chance to show his shooting is for real. So with him and Ellington it should be fine. If it doesn't work out, then move THT back to the bench. But I don't see a reason for Bradley to continue starting. Ellington competes enough on defense to compensate, and AD and LeBron should be enough to cover for him on that end too.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1008 » by Baski » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:07 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Baski wrote:Appreciate the answers. So basically hopes aren't too high but don't count em out completely.

But then I'm seeing a lot of you guys' PO lineups having Westbrook in them, and that reads to me as an automatic non-title. Am I being too hard on the guy?


I think Westbrook has shown signs of deferring. I think if he can play less on ball offensively and save his elite motor for defense then he will slot in.

Everyone needs to remember that on Houston and Washington it took Westbrook half a season to click with the team.

But..........can he? And even if he can, will that be enough to make him an adequate starting guard for a title run?
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1009 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:12 am

Second unit bleeding points. Vogel not helping AD pairing him with Rondo/Monk/Ellington/Melo. Too many weaknesses to cover.

I think at least two of LeBron/AD/Russ/THT should be on the floor at all times.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1010 » by JLei » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:12 am

Come on Vogel.

Wtf is this lineup that Marcus **** smart is Michael Jordan.

The starting lineup actually looked fantastic.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1011 » by JLei » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:14 am

Honestly a lineup with Carmelo, Rondo, Ellington and Monk is a fireable offense.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1012 » by trickshot » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:15 am

MisterHibachi wrote:Second unit bleeding points. Vogel not helping AD pairing him with Rondo/Monk/Ellington/Melo. Too many weaknesses to cover.

I think at least two of LeBron/AD/Russ/THT should be on the floor at all times.

the roster has just too much liability personnel. The 2nd or 3rd lineup is always loaded with 3-4 defensive liabilites. Have to sacrifice one of the precious shooters.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1013 » by Larry David » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:18 am

Jeez guys theyre not that bad
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1014 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:34 am

Russ has no game management ability wtf. Team went to complete **** last few possessions
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1015 » by thebigbird » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:36 am

Somehow Vogel has managed to play AD at the 5 and still start a lineup with no spacing. This guy.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1016 » by Larry David » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:39 am

Alright the second quarter has been pretty damn bad
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1017 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:40 am

AD low key is an awful screener
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1018 » by thebigbird » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:43 am

I just do not enjoy watching Russell Westbrook play basketball. There’s no middle ground for him. Every possession feels like youre at the blackjack table and just went all in.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1019 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:47 am

thebigbird wrote:I just do not enjoy watching Russell Westbrook play basketball. There’s no middle ground for him. Every possession feels like youre at the blackjack table and just went all in.

Massive understatement for me.
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Re: The LeBron James - 21-22 Regular Season Thread 

Post#1020 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:49 am

These refs need to see blood before they call a foul on LeBron :lol:

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