Odd Man Out From Starting Lineup?

[Tor_Raps]

So there's tons of discussion on what should be our ideal starting lineup once everyone is healthy. It's a really tough decision because part of the discussion becomes what's best for the team right now and what's best for the team long term.

The answer to start the year was most likely to move Trent jr to the bench but it's hard to take him out the way he's shot the ball and defends. He is also 22 and should be considered part of our core even if some don't.

Birch is obviously the least skilled player in the long run but his strengths help balance the starting lineup tremendously. I have already gone on of the importance of a real Center and really hate watching the team play without one of Birch/Precious on the court for long stretches.

There has been no successful team in the history of the NBA that has started someone as frail as Siakam at Center. Not only doesn't it hurt Siakam defensively who has play out of position but we lose out on all aspects a real Center provides by cleaning up mistakes around the paint. Oh and please don't bring up the Nash Suns as they were historically great offensively, which we are not.

So out of Fred/Trent/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Birch, who should be the odd man out? The unpopular opinion would be Barnes since practically all other top rookies are starting on their teams and we'd pretty much take him out of the ROY race. Tough choice lol.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

So there's tons of discussion on what should be our ideal starting lineup once everyone is healthy. It's a really tough decision because part of the discussion becomes what's best for the team right now and what's best for the team long term.

The answer to start the year was most likely to move Trent jr to the bench but it's hard to take him out the way he's shot the ball and defends. He is also 22 and should be considered part of our core even if some don't.

Birch is obviously the least skilled player in the long run but his strengths help balance the starting lineup tremendously. I have already gone on of the importance of a real Center and really hate watching the team play without one of Birch/Precious on the court for long stretches.

There has been no successful team in the history of the NBA that has started someone as frail as Siakam at Center. Not only doesn't it hurt Siakam defensively who has play out of position but we lose out on all aspects a real Center provides by cleaning up mistakes around the paint. Oh and please don't bring up the Nash Suns as they were historically great offensively, which we are not.

So out of Fred/Trent/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Birch, who should be the odd man out?

If the stats back up the that the starting lineup of …

FVV
GTJ
OG
SB
Siakam

… Do not falter against other starting lineups, then let it continue.

It’s the use of substitutions and bench play that have been hurting the raps from the eye test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Indeed]

So there's tons of discussion on what should be our ideal starting lineup once everyone is healthy. It's a really tough decision because part of the discussion becomes what's best for the team right now and what's best for the team long term.

The answer to start the year was most likely to move Trent jr to the bench but it's hard to take him out the way he's shot the ball and defends. He is also 22 and should be considered part of our core even if some don't.

Birch is obviously the least skilled player in the long run but his strengths help balance the starting lineup tremendously. I have already gone on of the importance of a real Center and really hate watching the team play without one of Birch/Precious on the court for long stretches.

There has been no successful team in the history of the NBA that has started someone as frail as Siakam at Center. Not only doesn't it hurt Siakam defensively who has play out of position but we lose out on all aspects a real Center provides by cleaning up mistakes around the paint. Oh and please don't bring up the Nash Suns as they were historically great offensively, which we are not.

So out of Fred/Trent/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Birch, who should be the odd man out?

If the stats back up the that the starting lineup of …

FVV
GTJ
OG
SB
Siakam

… Do not falter against other starting lineups, then let it continue.

It’s the use of substitutions and bench play that have been hurting the raps from the eye test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not sure how much you are expecting the bench to carry the team when Boucher is the only player making 7m or more (or Birch if you count him as bench player from your lineup).

Prior to Siakam coming back, it was OG who carried the bench offense, and I would expect one or two of the starters are paid to do so as well. I think the lack of playing time for the bench wouldn't make that much of the difference, and neither they can get going with just a few minutes here and there.

I think the starting lineup itself has problem. Averaging 35 mins, plus some games are decided at the end, which is basically the starting lineup.

[DreamTeam09]

Go big bring GTJ off of the bench

FVV
OG
Barnes
Pascal
Precious

End small if need be

[Tor_Raps]

So there's tons of discussion on what should be our ideal starting lineup once everyone is healthy. It's a really tough decision because part of the discussion becomes what's best for the team right now and what's best for the team long term.

The answer to start the year was most likely to move Trent jr to the bench but it's hard to take him out the way he's shot the ball and defends. He is also 22 and should be considered part of our core even if some don't.

Birch is obviously the least skilled player in the long run but his strengths help balance the starting lineup tremendously. I have already gone on of the importance of a real Center and really hate watching the team play without one of Birch/Precious on the court for long stretches.

There has been no successful team in the history of the NBA that has started someone as frail as Siakam at Center. Not only doesn't it hurt Siakam defensively who has play out of position but we lose out on all aspects a real Center provides by cleaning up mistakes around the paint. Oh and please don't bring up the Nash Suns as they were historically great offensively, which we are not.

So out of Fred/Trent/OG/Barnes/Siakam/Birch, who should be the odd man out?

If the stats back up the that the starting lineup of …

FVV
GTJ
OG
SB
Siakam

… Do not falter against other starting lineups, then let it continue.

It’s the use of substitutions and bench play that have been hurting the raps from the eye test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stats backup siakam at center because that consists of our 5 best players while guys like a Birch are left to play with lesser players. So obviously they would look better by default but the question is how to get the most out of our entire team.

I will repeat, please tell me how many teams in the history of the NBA have been successful starting someone as frail as Siakam at Center?

Its one thing if that lineup makes us truly elite offensively or defensive like the Nash Suns were offensively but it doesn't for us. There is a reason you can't think of many teams so excuse me if I don't care to see stats from a small sample size when I have 75 years of NBA basketball on my side lol.

[Mascot]

Vanvleet (35)/Banton (13)
Trent (35)/Mykhailiuk (13)
Barnes (35)/Siakam (13)
Siakam (22)/Anunoby (25)
Anunoby (10)/Birch (22)/Achiuwa (8)/Boucher (8)

Watanabe for some mins at SG/SF when he returns

[mtcan]

Scottie goes to the bench...and there goes any hope of ROY.

If you are trying to win now...Fred/Gary/OG/Pascal/Khem really is the only way to go.

Scottie seems way too passive on offense with Pascal, OG and Fred on the floor at the same time. He defers too much. Perhaps coming off the bench will open up some scoring opportunities for Scottie.

[JN]

I would look into rotating out one of your starters about 3 minutes into the game, so they can rotate back in earlier. Strengthens the bench when they come in.

[billy_hoyle]

People complaining about ROY, that's absurd, who cares. Move Barnes to the bench, he's simply not as good, nor does he deserve to start over Siakam, or OG. He will come in early (to take out one the these two). We should literally always have two of these guys on the floor at all times.

Need to upgrade our Center position. We basically have two legitimate backups, no starter.

I actually like our back court of FVV, GTJ, Banton, Svi and Flynn.

[kalel123]

There have been enough times where Scottie Barnes was clearly the best player even with one or two of FVV, OG, and Siakam on the floor with him that it simply doesn't make any kind of sense to push him to the bench. If we are willing to give time to any one of those 3 guys to adjust, most notable being Siakam, you have to be willing to give time for the rook to adjust to the vets as well because once he does, long-term reward is that much greater.

I say let Trent Jr come off the bench and be the sixth man. It's not too late to look at benching Barnes if that doesn't work.

[Rapsalot]

It is only one game but, if GTJ plays well with Bench I would start him and then sub for him at 5 min mark and have SB4 come off bench then give rest to GTJ, OG, PS so he would play some with different starters and bench players.

Start: FVV, GTJ, OGA, PS and KB with the first 4 guys KB will just play off others and get a put back or maybe shoot a 3. Based on play to date unless injury or B2B I would run 10 players with bench being In order of most mins SB, PA, Svi, Banton and Chris B. If Yuta returns we will have to see but generally 1-2 players are out with rest or other issue.

If playing a small team I would maybe finish last 5 with FVV, GTJ, OG, PS, SB and just have the three forwards try and crash paint.

[YogurtProducer]

Barnes makes sense to me.

I still like the Barnes/OG/Siakam combo but Birch is just way better when he’s with the starters.

We’re not deep by any means so we need at least 40 minutes out of Precious/Birch. In the right games when Birch/Precious aren’t feeling it, we can close with our small long boi lineup.

[PT416]

Never gonna happen because Nurse isn't Popovich but if we really wanna win,
bring Siakam off the bench. Let him play 35 minutes and destroy the other teams benches. Develop a nasty defence with Fred/Trent/OG/Barnes/Birch ... and ride that chemistry with that unit like we had to start off the season, with a 6th man of the year in Siakam destroying second units.

Also it really makes no sense to bench Barnes when his contributions go beyond the points. At an NBA level he's playing harder on defence than Siakam, having less breakdowns etc. Meanwhile Siakam is a much more polished scorer. If we moved one to the bench, who has the bigger advantage: Siakam. He can outscore bench players so easily and won't have to focus on defence as much. Meanwhile with Scottie starting, he can continue guarding guys like Tatum and Luka, etc. And he can continue getting rebounds and getting in the way of driving lanes on defence instead of shying away like Siakam. It really doesn't make sense to bench Scottie over Siakam.

[dgr81]

I'm one of the biggest scottie fans on here, but if the team wants to win this year, and we know nurse does, then you move scottie to the bench.

He's probably the first to come off the bench and you can close games with him. He is not working with FVV/OG/Siakam.

If the team wants to develop Scottie, then you start him, but don't expect making the playoffs.

FVV/Banton/Malachi
GTJ/Svi/Goran
OG/Scottie/Champagnie
Pascal/Yuta/Boucher
Birch/Precious

[gp2015]

Who cares about the ROY?

I care more about developing him properly than winning a useless award.

If that means him coming off the bench for some time, I'm okay with that.

[Asif16]

Im gonna have to say Scottie. Birch makes too much of an Impact starting.

Scottie will still get halla minutes off the bench. Kinda like the Patrick Patterson role tbh. I feel like thats the best option to take

[bluerap23]

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but the correct answer is Scottie. He is the leased experienced and is accustomed to coming off the bench from College. He should still easily get 36 mins of playing time so it doesn't have to affect his development.

[JShuttlesworth]

At the end of the day, Scottie and Siakam play the same position. Our starting lineup is going to be awkward as long as they're both in it

I think Scottie is getting lost out there offensively with all the starters. Having Barnes come off the bench makes a lot of sense from a rotation perspective.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Scottie goes to the bench...and there goes any hope of ROY.

If you are trying to win now...Fred/Gary/OG/Pascal/Khem really is the only way to go.

Scottie seems way too passive on offense with Pascal, OG and Fred on the floor at the same time. He defers too much. Perhaps coming off the bench will open up some scoring opportunities for Scottie.

Defers or not being passed the ball?

[Gold Dragon]

Birch. If the Fred, GTJ, OG, Pascal, Scottie lineup cannot coexist, we need to find out sooner rather than later. That is the long term vision of this team. So far we don’t know yet because of people coming in and out with injuries, players still learning each other’s tendencies, scottie still learning the schemes/roles/league.

It will have ugly results at times but that is what this season is about, figuring out the long term vision of this roster. So far this lineup has been doing well in the short time it has played together so I don’t see them abandoning ship any time soon.

Does Birch address a lot of weaknesses of that lineup? Absolutely for the short term. But in the long run the role Birch has is going to be a low cost situational low minutes player because of the salary cap and all the money that will rightfully be tied up in those 5 starters.

Precious is like a backup plan. We want him to be the Birch player long term with the possibility of taking a starter role if the current 5 guys can’t coexist. But he is still quite far from that player.