Zenzibar wrote:moocow007 wrote:Guano wrote:
I think there is truth in this post and the other post that shed light on his actual play being problematic(selfish iso ball with bad effort and weak mentality at times). I think Randle put in the right spot with other really talented players that lift some of the weight off his shoulders can be a key winning player. If RJ turns into Kawhi like I was told he was going to around here it should alleviate some of the burden off Randle.
Yeah at it's core Randle is what he is right? He's a very talented offensive player that you probably don't want to be the no.1 option (and definitely not be CLEARLY the best player) on a top tier team. That's the reality Randle and the Knicks (still) are in. So it's easy to say that Randle should do this or that and the other thing better and be like a superstar player that this team needs. But no one should be expecting that anymore than anyone should have expected Carmelo Anthony to have the same type of impact as if Lebron had decided for NY instead of Miami. And yet fans keep falling into that trap. They look at their best player and expect (rather unrealistically) him to be able to do the things that the other teams best player does. And when he can't, the player sucks and trade him for a wing and a prayer (cause that obviously works).
For Randle to do well you need someone that can get him the ball in more situations where he's already on the move and near the basket. So he can use his terrific offensive feel to get easy shots. The Knicks? They need Randle to handle the ball and run the offense cause...again...they do NOT have anyone that is able to do that consistently. Elfrid Payton was the Knicks starting PG last season. Payton wouldn't even be the backup PG on the majority of the NBA teams. Walker was supposed to be a significant upgrade over Payton and so far he's just been an upgrade (in part cause you can't possibly be less of a starting PG than Elfrid Payton). And yet, fans want the Knicks and Randle to do what again? Let someone else run the offense OR for Randle to be Lebron James or Luka Doncic from an running the offense standpoint? The former is easier said than done. The later is the biggest problem that the Knicks have had for more than 2 decades...they simply have not been able to build a team where more than one star in his prime is on the team. And you simply cannot win in the NBA with just one star UNLESS that star is of a prime time Lebron James caliber player. And even then guys like Lebron and MJ couldn't do it by themselves. So why would anyone expect anything remotely close for Julius Randle?
Again I get fans for being upset. But being upset and blaming Randle for it is unfair. It's the front office's job to bring in talent so that each player is able to be put into best positions to do well. For the Knicks, Randle's "position" has and still is a Lebron James level "position". And that's just nuts cause he's not that type of talent. Which again goes back to every star that the Knicks have had since the 73 Knicks (Bernard King by himself, MRR by himself, Ewing by himself, Starbury by himself, Carmelo by himself and now Randle by himself). Got to be a little realistic here...
It's why I've kept on harping that this team is not enough and IF the plan is to really do something in the playoffs you need to be able to put your cards on the table and make a move for that 2nd star that is in his prime (so no...not Rose and not what we've seen of Walker). Get that top tier guard that can and should be doing the things that Randle so far has been forced to do and let Randle succeed by doing what he's best at doing rather more than what is realistically fair to expect him to be able to do. But instead we get the IHOP waffling where after every good/great win the Knicks don't need nothing and after every bad lost, blow up the team.
I respectfully disagree with the 1 more star theory and I'll tell you why.
Last year Randle was fittingly rewarded for his outstanding play both by the NBA's recognition i.e. MIP, 2nd Team All-Pro, All-Star game. Also by the Team with his new 4 year contract.
The problem began as soon as the Team made the playoffs. It appears to me that Randle shouldered the responsibility of the Teams success in the playoffs and herein lies the problem.
Like any good team, the Hawks analytics probably showed that Randle either passes better moving right or left and provided him no outlets off a double teams while he moved in that particular direction. Stay with me here.
I think you're overthinking things trying to find a nugget that somehow uniquely implies that had the Knicks had another player of similar level other than Randle that things would have been different. They asked Nate McMillan how he planned to stop the Knicks (this was with the Knicks looking like the clear best bet to win the series heading in). McMillan looked at the camera, shrugged his shoulder and in a deadpan manner said "uh...stop Julius Randle?".
Reality is the Knicks had one player that had superior talent to his position (sad but true). They had one player that essentially carried them through the regular season. Everyone and their mom knew that. The Knicks had, at every other position, guys that performed above or well above their expectations (talent set, historical performance, reasonable expectations, etc.). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to stop the Knicks. Nate McMillan, being a veteran NBA player and long time coach knows that the playoffs is a whole different animal from the regular season and that players that played beyond their abilities (everyone else on the Knicks more so than Randle TBQH) that it's a whole lot harder come playoff time. So you go at the guy that would most reasonably be able to replicate the regular season performance (Randle, not anyone else on the team) with pretty much everything you got and dare the other guys to beat you.
McMillan did that and the Knicks (not just Randle) collapsed. Again, Randle wasn't the only one that collapsed even though that's what the popular narrative some folks appear to be trying to spin here. The entire team collapsed (and if you don't buy that then that tells you how bad the rest of the team was if, without a very good but not great player like Randle, they weren't able to do anything). Randle just so happened to be the lead domino and the only domino that McMillan tipped.
Randle feeling the heat to produce, became a Carmelo clone, same mamba mentality, that win or lose the fate rest with him. Many superstars have this makeup. But since Randle is not on this level, it isolated his teammates and they failed.
The Knicks without Randle wouldn't have even been anywhere near the playoffs last season.
So to imply that his teammates would have done anything other than embarrass themselves like Randle did just doesn't make sense. And yet folks still seem to want to push that narrative that had Randle passed more and gotten his teammates involved that they would have had a chance against the far more talented and mismatch nightmare that was the Hawks (who also was heading into the playoffs on a steam roller). The Knicks one chance was the same one that lead them to even what they did in the regular season...Randle being able to carry the load. He didn't. Once that happened the Knicks had no shot at all.
The Knicks last season without Randle was the absolute least talented team in the NBA. You need talent to win no matter how hard we want to believe otherwise.
Fast forward to this season, the brass upgraded the offense and we have seen vast improvements with our young core. However, Randle has found it difficult to let this "I must carry the Team" mentality.
The brass upgraded with what? A potentially shot Kemba Walker and a good tertiary offensive player in Evan Fournier who has looked like **** on both ends of the floor? And you want to blame Randle for that?
As he showed last night, if the ball is a "hot potato" and moves easily, he Randle can still get his shots. But the lingering on the perimeter to just shoot the ball, has affected RJ, Evan and Walker to a degree.
Walker and Fournier have been in the league long enough to not be babies. RJ's biggest personality characteristic that says he should be able to develop into a fine player is his confidence and ability to shrug off the negatives. To again, as with Carmelo Anthony, that these other seasoned and/or proven professional athletes would so willingly cowtail to a guy that is clearly not Lebron James level is way out there. I know you guys don't see it this way but that's what it is. Just think about it objectively here.
The notion that any one player can so negatively impact every other player WHILE also being allowed to go nuts by not just any head coach but a head coach like Tom Thibodeau is nuts. The notion that Randle doing what he's doing is actually hindering other players like Walker and Fournier is silly cause, once again, he is NOT Lebron James and does not wield the type of clout that Lebron like players get from teammates. So unless we're implying that Randle is threatening the other players and Thibs with physical violence (cause he obviously is bigger than them) the narrative that Randle (like Anthony) is doing anything more than simply just not enough (because they're forcing things trying to do their best with very little help) for what a team like this needs is again way out there.
If we actually try to accept that Randle is a very talented but ultimately limited player and not the super star caliber player (I agree, do you?) that this team needs then and only then maybe we can realize that Randle's play so far this season has been regular **** instead of some sort of catastrophic **** folks are making it out to be. Fans are making Randle the escapegoat here when the escapegoat should be (the same one it's been for 20+ years)...the front office.
So yes, absolutely, Randle has looked like crap. Why? Maybe he's shell shocked from the Hawks series still. Maybe it's because other teams (the better teams in the NBA) have been reading Nate McMillan's handbook on "how to stop a talented but not superstar talented player on a low talent team with a predictable offense and win games"? It's really not that hard to figure out what the Knicks do offensively and how to stop them. I know fans want to believe that somehow that if they "simply" just replace Randle or get rid of Randle that things will be rosey. They won't. Things will suck cause the rest of the team is not talented.
That's why we keep going through this same routine. Knicks front office gets one very talented player (not superstar talent) and can't add any more significant talent, try to win even though they should know better and then when they can't (which should be to no one's surprise and yet it apparently still is) fans turn on the defacto most talented but not superstar talented player. Rinse, repeat.
What I recommend is that Thibs lets Rose and Randle play more since it appears that Randle defers to Rose. Whatever time they can share on the court together will help Randle relax with that sht and allow others to touch the ball.
Problem with that is Rose can't barely play 25 minutes and looks dead legged every other game so far this season. And we already see that Walker can't play any game of a back-to-back and has no bounce in his game. Those things are not Randle's fault and it's nothing he can help with. Rose is already loaded to the max with his role and needs coming off the bench with the minutes he can manage. Why? Cause they don't have any alternatives to what they need Rose for. So to try to get Rose more involved is just simply not realistic.
Same with Walker. There's a reason why the Celtics, who rarely pass up on talent, were so willingly to give such a talented player like Walker money to go away. Folks can say chemistry all they want but Danny Ainge has never let talent go unless that talent was shot (see Isaiah Thomas). Ainge being so eager to buyout Walker was a red flag that I mentioned when everything was happening. I was also hoping for the best, but it's not unlikely that the Celtics (who also apparently had intel as early as 2017 that Isaiah Thomas' hips were degrading and would put his future in doubt...Celtics traded Thomas to the Cavs in 2018) knew the deal with Walker (as in he's shot).
Again, it's not about deferring. It's about talent. Not talent that was (Rose and Walker) or talent that may become (RJ and any of the other young guys), but talent here and now (which is very very little).
You ain't getting a better player than DRose, without gutting this nice team of their youth. Personally, I'm not with it.
Let's be very honest here, the Knicks youth aren't all that nice...compared to how nice the other teams youth are. So not being with it why? Because you like youth of any sort? Wing and a prayer that somehow one or maybe more of those guys will turn out to be a solid player similar to what you can sign in free agency?
IF they have a chance at adding a top tier talent then they should consider it IMO. The young talent the Knicks have is honestly not projected to be top tier NBA talent down the road (that's IMHO). And if you get a chance to spin quantity for quality you do it. But if there isn't anything available and the take is that the Knicks FO doesn't feel like they can do anything to improve then sure, tank away is another option.