PG System and Usage Angst again

[orochi_i]

I can see why Nurse is infatuated with the current defensive scheme.

It literally won us the 'chip.

But I think even he knows deep down that the current talent on the roster simply can't do that style of defense justice.

Dude really lucked into a couple seasons of Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry, and even Kawhi that one time.

OG was also more defensive focused during those 2 years, and Siakam still gave a **** to try on both offense and defense back then.

[johanliebert]

Why do ppl want Barnes to shoot more. His iso numbers aren’t even that good.

It’s more realgm wanting him to get raw stats at this point for ROY

Exactly and some claim he’s the best player on the team. I wonder how they believe he’ll create buckets he’s not great at anything right now. He’s a project.

[Ref_from_hell]

Only thing that can save us is FVV getting injured or Pascal getting injured as well. Seriously sick of watching these two on the Raps. I want to see us develop the other players especially Barnes.

I'm going to guess you're in favor of tanking

[YogurtProducer]

Only thing that can save us is FVV getting injured or Pascal getting injured as well. Seriously sick of watching these two on the Raps. I want to see us develop the other players especially Barnes.

Cmon dude, don't say crap like that.

This board is in straight denial mode.

This team without Siakam and FVV is in a battle for last place in the league.

[Los_29]

Only thing that can save us is FVV getting injured or Pascal getting injured as well. Seriously sick of watching these two on the Raps. I want to see us develop the other players especially Barnes.

I'm going to guess you're in favor of tanking

I am honestly stunned with some of the posts I have read over the past few days here. Calling players Trash and now hoping for them to get injured. This is actually pretty concerning.

[YogurtProducer]

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He isn’t wrong entirely. Our defence hasn’t been great, but we’ve been entirely on the wrong side of some 3 point luck. Wiggins going 6/6 at one point? Poole at like 8/11 and Porter 5/9.

We seem to keep getting destroyed by very meh players. And yes, part of it is our less than stellar efforts lately, but even the worst defences in the world in NBA history don’t give up 49%, 44%, 41%, 43% (our last 4 losses).

Our effort has to be a bit better, but I’m pretty confident we’re not nearly as bad as it’s looked lately.

There's definitely some luck to 3 point shooting, but the hard doubles (and some hilarious triples) on Steph means the rest of the GSW roster got to take some of the most open, practice shoot-around jumpers they've probably seen all year.

The defense we employed on Steph was to get it out of his hands and hope the rest of the team misses. Not necessarily a bad strategy but you can't be surprised that scrubs go off when you sell out like that.

Yeah and it happens.

This happens every year a few times and realgm loses its mind. We have the worst defence EVER because a few teams all get hot on us in a 2 week span. And then suddenly we get a lot of cold shooting against us for 2 weeks and suddenly we have the best defence in the league!

Like yes, we let role players get open shots but **** me Poole/Wiggins/Porter hit like 70%+ on those tonight I swear and I would bet their season averages on wide open 3’s are closer to the mid 30’s.

We bet on the role player missing… and the role players didn’t miss. It is what it is.

[Ref_from_hell]

Only thing that can save us is FVV getting injured or Pascal getting injured as well. Seriously sick of watching these two on the Raps. I want to see us develop the other players especially Barnes.

Cmon dude, don't say crap like that.

This board is in straight denial mode.

This team without Siakam and FVV is in a battle for last place in the league.

With Fred yes, but I'm still not sure about Pascal. Record with him speaks for itself. The team just looks different with him. I'm hoping he can put it together and start contributing in games that we win. The Kings game was the first time.

[Syd-TK3]

Not sure how wide open 3s can be considered getting hot. These are professional basketball players

[HumbleRen]

Only thing that can save us is FVV getting injured or Pascal getting injured as well. Seriously sick of watching these two on the Raps. I want to see us develop the other players especially Barnes.

Cmon dude, don't say crap like that.

This board is in straight denial mode.

This team without Siakam and FVV is in a battle for last place in the league.

Bit of a stretch considering we're 2-7 since he's been back lol.

Absolutely agree on FVV though, he ain't perfect or even great as a PG but he's the best we got. Rooting for any types of injury is wierdo behaviour.

[Los_29]

How does a team that was 6-3 and playing amazing defense suddenly fall off a cliff defensively? Our defense was so sound and tight and now it's one of the worst in the league. Like what changed?

We were playing mediocre teams in that stretch. Also, it was just a matter of time for other teams to figure out how to adjust to our overreacting defense and basic offense.

Bingo.

Boston, Washington, NYK on the road are mediocre now? Guys, come on. So playing 3 games in 4 nights on a west coast trip is an accurate barometer of how good our team is but beating Boston, Washington and NYK on the road in a span of a week is just capitalizing on mediocre teams.

[DelAbbot]

Not sure how wide open 3s can be considered getting hot. These are professional basketball players

[YogurtProducer]

Cmon dude, don't say crap like that.

This board is in straight denial mode.

This team without Siakam and FVV is in a battle for last place in the league.

With Fred yes, but I'm still not sure about Pascal. Record with him speaks for itself. The team just looks different with him. I'm hoping he can put it together and start contributing in games that we win. The Kings game was the first time.

Yeah the team looks different AKA we played bottom feeders when he was injured and have played the Jazz, Nets, Warriors, Blasers and Celtics when he’s been healthy and beat the Kings. Really the only game we lost we shouldn’t have was Detroit.

But in games we have won while pascal has been out? The best team was who? The 9-8 Knicks? Technically I guess the 11-5 Wizards, but I mean they’re not gonna be a 50 win team either.

Let’s not try and use Siakam as some sort of scapegoat. We are also like 17-5 without Kawhi that one year, and IIRC we have a crazy good record before last year when Lowry was injured. Looking into little 10 game samples is just useless.

[YogurtProducer]

We were playing mediocre teams in that stretch. Also, it was just a matter of time for other teams to figure out how to adjust to our overreacting defense and basic offense.

Bingo.

Boston, Washington, NYK on the road are mediocre now? Guys, come on. So playing 3 games in 4 nights on a west coast trip is an accurate barometer of how good our team is but beating Boston, Washington and NYK on the road in a span of a week is just capitalizing on mediocre teams.

Boston is 9-8, NYK is 9-8, Washington is the fakest 11-5 team i have ever seen (they’ve had a cakewalk schedule so far lmao). That’s like the definition of mediocre. You nicely left out the two Indiana wins as well.

Since Siakam returned we’ve played Utah, GSW, Brooklyn, etc. We’ve had a way tougher schedule in the last 10 than we did in the first 10.

[AbC?]

I swear this board has reached new levels of stupidity.

Like, people are blaming Nurse for doubling... Steph Curry. If there's a player that's 1000% deserving of that kind of coverage it's him. And basically every team does it in some form, and he still routinely drops 30+. Our defense on him was excellent. The overall defense would have looked better if Wiggins and Poole didn't shoot the absurd percentages they did, even if they were open looks. Give them credit for knocking them down.

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[KL78192020]

I can see why Nurse is infatuated with the current defensive scheme.

It literally won us the 'chip.

But I think even he knows deep down that the current talent on the roster simply can't do that style of defense justice.

Dude really lucked into a couple seasons of Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry, and even Kawhi that one time.

OG was also more defensive focused at during those 2 years, and Siakam still gave a **** to try on both offense and defense back then.

Ya exactly, the scheme doesn't mean anything when you don't have the guys for it, I mean he had two defensive players of year in Kawhi/Gasol, some of the best of all time. Plus Ibaka/Lowry were the next best defenders.

Kawhi/Gasol would make most coachs look good defensively.

[EFF3KT]

Barnes needs to be assertive from the very beginning. I'm waiting for him to have his moment and then take over from there on.

I imagine it'd be hard to do that when Pascal comes running at you clapping his hands furiously for the ball.
It's frustrating to watch him take the ball from Scottie then struggle to convert.
He had a fantastic game last game and props to him but this was also against one of the worst teams in the league and that crap doesn't fly against GOOD NBA teams.
Good play making, motion, and ball movement like what we saw tonight from GSW is winning basketball and fortifies a collaborative culture where everyone will get theirs if they buy into the system.
We just have no system in place for a guy like Scottie to thrive.

?? Is this really the game to crap on Pascal? 21 points on 17 shots, Barnes had 10 points on 11 shots.

He’s been pretty damn good all year offensively outside a stinker against Utah.

He had a decent offensive game but you're missing the point of my post. Barnes cannot be assertive while being on the floor with Pascal. This is the main point I'm trying to make.
The eye test shows Scottie doesn't have the same confidence while on the court with Pascal compared to when Pascal was still recovering (feel free to find numbers to debate this). I don't remember seeing Barnes parked in a corner this often when Pascal was still injured. We saw Scottie rise and take confident mid range jumpers, feasting on the post up and offensive boards, and creating for teammates. The quality of his shots has dropped off because the spacing he was used to on the floor is now compromised with Pascal's re-insertion into the lineup. Is it detrimental to the team? I would say that's unfair to say as Pascal offensively has been solid.
Is it detrimental to Scottie's development? No question.

Pascal is a great offensive player in this league. Against bad teams, he will feast. Against good teams, he will struggle to get his at times but he will still put in his best effort to score and will find a way to get his 20 points.
I'm just of the opinion that this team cannot contend with Pascal as our franchise player. He's proven to be an amazing sidekick, that Robin to a Batman.
Wouldn't it be great to see if Scottie could eventually be our Batman? We've seen some flashes of brilliance that is very rare to see, especially in a rookie.
Ultimately, it could just be that this franchise is stuck inbetween playoff contention and development. We want to win but are not willing to take risks and make changes while adapting our playstyle to our cast, continuing to run our offense through Pascal and Freddy.
I know this a long post but I respect your opinions and your statistic supporting posts so far this season. I feel this entire board is split which is highly representative of what we're seeing translate on the court.

[Los_29]

Bingo.

Boston, Washington, NYK on the road are mediocre now? Guys, come on. So playing 3 games in 4 nights on a west coast trip is an accurate barometer of how good our team is but beating Boston, Washington and NYK on the road in a span of a week is just capitalizing on mediocre teams.

Boston is 9-8, NYK is 9-8, Washington is the fakest 11-5 team i have ever seen (they’ve had a cakewalk schedule so far lmao). That’s like the definition of mediocre. You nicely left out the two Indiana wins as well.

Since Siakam returned we’ve played Utah, GSW, Brooklyn, etc. We’ve had a way tougher schedule in the last 10 than we did in the first 10.

Boston might be 9-8 but we played them on the road without Pascal while they had Brown and Tatum. And we smoked them. We smoked the Knicks as well on the road. I agree with the Wizards but the reality is they've been beating a lot of good teams this year including Miami last night. Those are good wins and playing those teams on the road aren't easy wins for any team in the league.

But yeah, I absolutely agree with your last take. Schedule has been incredibly tough especially when you consider that a few of those games took place during our west coast road trip. Makes losing to the Cavs and Pistons that much more frustrating.

[YogurtProducer]

I imagine it'd be hard to do that when Pascal comes running at you clapping his hands furiously for the ball.
It's frustrating to watch him take the ball from Scottie then struggle to convert.
He had a fantastic game last game and props to him but this was also against one of the worst teams in the league and that crap doesn't fly against GOOD NBA teams.
Good play making, motion, and ball movement like what we saw tonight from GSW is winning basketball and fortifies a collaborative culture where everyone will get theirs if they buy into the system.
We just have no system in place for a guy like Scottie to thrive.

?? Is this really the game to crap on Pascal? 21 points on 17 shots, Barnes had 10 points on 11 shots.

He’s been pretty damn good all year offensively outside a stinker against Utah.

He had a decent offensive game but you're missing the point of my post. Barnes cannot be assertive while being on the floor with Pascal. This is the main point I'm trying to make.
The eye test shows Scottie doesn't have the same confidence while on the court with Pascal compared to when Pascal was still recovering (feel free to find numbers to debate this). I don't remember seeing Barnes parked in a corner this often when Pascal was still injured. We saw Scottie rise and take confident mid range jumpers, feasting on the post up and offensive boards, and creating for teammates. The quality of his shots has dropped off because the spacing he was used to on the floor is now compromised with Pascal's re-insertion into the lineup. Is it detrimental to the team? I would say that's unfair to say as Pascal offensively has been solid.
Is it detrimental to Scottie's development? No question.

Pascal is a great offensive player in this league. Against bad teams, he will feast. Against good teams, he will struggle to get his at times but he will still put in his best effort to score and will find a way to get his 20 points.
I'm just of the opinion that this team cannot contend with Pascal as our franchise player. He's proven to be an amazing sidekick, that Robin to a Batman.
Wouldn't it be great to see if Scottie could eventually be our Batman? We've seen some flashes of brilliance that is very rare to see, especially in a rookie.
Ultimately, it could just be that this franchise is stuck inbetween playoff contention and development. We want to win but are not willing to take risks and make changes while adapting our playstyle to our cast, continuing to run our offense through Pascal and Freddy.
I know this a long post but I respect your opinions and your statistic supporting posts so far this season. I feel this entire board is split which is highly representative of what we're seeing translate on the court.

So why is this an issue with Pascal but not with OG? OG has taken more shots per game than Siakam has.

Ans it’s funny to say “against good teams he will struggle” after shooting nearly 50% tonight, or 20 on 15fga against Portland, or 15 on 12fga against Brooklyn… he has one bad game against Utah and that’s really it. Before tonight he was at 17ppg on 60TS%. It’ll be pretty close to that after tonight as well.

The “spacing” thing is funny to bring up considering when Pascal was out he played primarily with Birch and Achiwua who provide 0 spacing. So the spacing thing obviously is not the problem.

Scottie just isn’t that good offensively yet. That’s all there is to to. Early in the year his “big games” were pretty much off offensive rebounds and transition mid range pull-ups (which honestly are terrible shots and bound to come down to earth). Barnes wasn’t initiating anymore before Siakams return than he is now. He simply was hitting his mid range at a ridiculous rate (I think it was at like 70% at one point IIRC).

Barnes is a rookie. Barnes isn’t that good. Barnes has a ton of potential and will be very very good. Force feeding Barnes and not holding him accountable for his terrible defence or his turnovers or his bad decision making and rewarding him with the primary ball handling duties is just not a good use of his development.

[YogurtProducer]

Boston, Washington, NYK on the road are mediocre now? Guys, come on. So playing 3 games in 4 nights on a west coast trip is an accurate barometer of how good our team is but beating Boston, Washington and NYK on the road in a span of a week is just capitalizing on mediocre teams.

Boston is 9-8, NYK is 9-8, Washington is the fakest 11-5 team i have ever seen (they’ve had a cakewalk schedule so far lmao). That’s like the definition of mediocre. You nicely left out the two Indiana wins as well.

Since Siakam returned we’ve played Utah, GSW, Brooklyn, etc. We’ve had a way tougher schedule in the last 10 than we did in the first 10.

Boston might be 9-8 but we played them on the road without Pascal while they had Brown and Tatum. And we smoked them. We smoked the Knicks as well on the road. I agree with the Wizards but the reality is they've been beating a lot of good teams this year including Miami last night. Those are good wins and playing those teams on the road aren't easy wins for any team in the league.

But yeah, I absolutely agree with your last take. Schedule has been incredibly tough especially when you consider that a few of those games took place during our west coast road trip. Makes losing to the Cavs and Pistons that much more frustrating.

I mean part of it is their starting lineup hit 2 3’s all game. As much as I’m willing to recognize we’ve been boned by bad 3 point luck lately, that game was wild the other way where we got very lucky with 3 point luck.

That’s the reality of an NBA season, you’ll play good teams who have had terrible nights (Boston) and you’ll win, you’ll play bad teams who get insanely hot and lose (Detroit), and then there will be everything in between.

Since Siakam has been back we’ve played a lot of elite teams, and it seems the non-elite teams have had some insane shooting performances like Detroit.

I just feel like this board things every win we get is because we deserve to win and forgets about the games we didn’t, and every loss is 100% our fault and is more indicative than anything else.

But looks the end result. We’re 8-10 wirh Siakam missing over half the games, FVV missing a game, OG missing games, Barnes missing games, and Birch and Precious missing games. Every starter except GTJ has missed games. I don’t think many would say we would be 8-10 if they knew that info before the year.

[sbsat]

I just cannot understand thee takes... Like what the hell is going on. We blaming Pascal for Barnes' lack of assertiveness on offense? I counted numerous times Barnes could've stepped in for a mod range jumper ... He wasn't taking them. His finishing at the rim was bad tonight too... He looks tired. Nurse is publicly saying he needs to be more assertive... How is this Pascals fault lol