PG: The Post-Moo Era Begins. Bulls are Better

[HINrichPolice]

Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.

[DaGawd]

Just realized teams 6-10 have a 9-8 record.. it’s about to ugly fast if we don’t make some moves

[moocow007]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is the head coach and the guy that decides what offense to run? Rose and Walker CLEARLY cannot play significant minutes or carry a heavy load right now (or possibly ever). Who do you want to run the offense through? IQ? They don't have top tier shot creators. Randle, sad as it is, is their best shot creator. Do you honestly believe that Thibs is being forced to go to Randle all the time by Randle? Is that what you're saying? That Randle doing what he's doing is coming from Randle himself and that Thibs is being overruled?

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

[Clyde_Style]

Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.

Your team is better

Our team is not gelling and there will have to be significant changes

It is what it is, but I don’t think we’re in denial. As fans we’re facing the music for the most part

[DaGawd]

Bulls fan here. I think you all are being too tough on your team, at least based on last night's performance. The reality is that the Bulls are a legitimately good team, and losing to the Bulls in a relatively close game should no longer be something to feel bad about.

It’s not about the bulls. It’s about our overall performance this season as a whole

[Clyde_Style]

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

We need a starting line-up with 2-way players. Fail to assemble that and we’ll never sniff contention status though you might get lucky and get a sniff of Leon’s pinky ring

[moocow007]

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

By that logic we should have just traded for Westbrook cause "we know Westbrook can score".

Every team that has actually done anything in the NBA in recent memory (and any memory) has had talent...lots of talent. The Knicks? They have Randle who is a downgraded Carmelo and they have RJ Barrett substituting in for JR SMith.

[Clyde_Style]

Unpopular opinion but I would blow this entire team up in the offseason. I would only keep Quickley, Mitch, Obi, Grimes and Deuce. Trade everybody else for assets. Re-start the tank for 2023 draft, which is considered stronger than the 2021 draft.

Oh that will soon become a very popular opinion though. It already has significant support on this board to the point it may already be the majority. But it will be soon

[evevale]

This thread along with this team's futility could be wrapped up in 1 page, nah F that, 1 heavily hate-soaked post. Not a whole lot to scrutinize over though I appreciate your efforts to try to keep things as toxic and interesting as you're able.

Bash the players all you want I won't stop you but the issue lies with the head of the snake, which in our case is getting balder and gobliner by the minute. The guy can't coach a modern offense, can't make proper mid-game adjustments, could not use Julius as a bigger offensive crutch if he wanted to, and his rotations may as well be carved onto his tombstone. Full blown psychopath at the reins folks.

[god shammgod]

Just realized teams 6-10 have a 9-8 record.. it’s about to ugly fast if we don’t make some moves

hawks only a game behind that and have won 4 in a row after a real slow start. raptors only a half game behind them.

only 3 teams are bad in this conference. the pacers, the magic and detroit. we lost to the magic twice and the pacers once already.

we have the 3rd worst home record in the conference.

the knicks will end up anywhere from 9-12 most likely.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Cant compare Rose and RJ man.

Rose is over a decade older and obv has a bad injury history. He did get hurt a few weeks ago so maybe he hasn't fully recovered from that. Was playing great before. While RJ has always been unathletic and an iffy finisher. Rose is way more athletic than RJ right now and that's sad as hell. I wasn't fooled by RJ's couple good games this year. All the numbers and eye test tell me he's not going to be anything great, maybe not even anything good. Hope he proves us wrong for real but I'm not going to ignore what I'm seeing. Meanwhile guys like Obi and IQ, who have shown real flashes of stardom, are buried on the bench.

Acting like RJ has only had a couple of good games this year is a ridiculous take. He was playing well last year too. I'm not saying he will be the second coming of Jordan but...the kid has improved every season on some things and is younger than many players drafted in his third year. This board was all about RJ a couple of weeks ago...now they are all against him. Typical fashion around here. Game to game reactions and "analysis". It's a joke.

Obi plays 10-15 mpg. IQ has been inconsistent since day one and isn't getting a ton of minutes either. Neither have shown any more flashes of stardom than RJ has. That's ridiculous to say.

Play them both 30-35 mpg and see what happens.

I don’t get the concept of being blindly loyal to a player that plays on our team especially when they are no longer playing well. Saying things like “a couple weeks ago everyone was all for RJ” I can assure you that every Knicks fans wants RJ to succeed bc it benefits all of us but how are we supposed to keep optimism for a player playing as badly as he has for as long as a stretch he has? I would say the RJ stuff has gone mostly under the radar especially outside of Realgm and the focus has been on Randle.

But RJ has been terrible on both ends. He is missing wide open layups and causing fast breaks on the other end. He doesn’t deserve the blind homerism.

Blind homerism? From who? Not me.. I am a realist. The kid is 21 and has shown flashes of all star level play while improving things each year he's been in the league. Will he become an all star...who knows? I'm just pointing out that the kid played well for more than a "couple of games this year" and now people are calling for his head.

Randle is who he is. I think he's a bench player who was overpaid. Oh well. That's another discussion. Irrelevant as far as anything I have said in this discussion. I could argue that his pounding the rock and his low IQ decisions are hurting RJ as well. But... I am not talking about Randle.

We are 17 games into the season and he is in what...10 or so game funk? Randle sucked for an entire season here and got a 4 year extension!

[god shammgod]

Unpopular opinion but I would blow this entire team up in the offseason. I would only keep Quickley, Mitch, Obi, Grimes and Deuce. Trade everybody else for assets. Re-start the tank for 2023 draft, which is considered stronger than the 2021 draft.

Oh that will soon become a very popular opinion though. It already has significant support on this board to the point it may already be the majority. But it will be soon

i wanted that before the year began

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

oof

[Clyde_Style]

Unpopular opinion but I would blow this entire team up in the offseason. I would only keep Quickley, Mitch, Obi, Grimes and Deuce. Trade everybody else for assets. Re-start the tank for 2023 draft, which is considered stronger than the 2021 draft.

Oh that will soon become a very popular opinion though. It already has significant support on this board to the point it may already be the majority. But it will be soon

i wanted that before the year began

Open your sails. The wind is blowing

[god shammgod]

Read on Twitter

oof

i didn't hear a lie

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The reason we lost:



A year later and we are still trying to find Randle some help, just like Melo, just like Ewing

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is the head coach and the guy that decides what offense to run? Rose and Walker CLEARLY cannot play significant minutes or carry a heavy load right now (or possibly ever). Who do you want to run the offense through? IQ? They don't have top tier shot creators. Randle, sad as it is, is their best shot creator. Do you honestly believe that Thibs is being forced to go to Randle all the time by Randle?

You say this like I'm high on Thibs We could run a better offense than we're doing right now, we don't even run PnR between Kemba and our bigs, which is laughable considering he needs a screen to get open now. These excuses are honestly falling on deaf ears now, the Sixers are without Embiid, they've had a 108 offensive rating in the 7 game stretch he's missed which also concides with Tobias Harris missing some games, we have a 103.6 offensive rating over that same stretch. You mean to tell me that we have a worse collection of offensive players than the Sixers do without Harris and Embiid?

Maybe stop letting a guy blitz every goddamn play calling for a post up, or screening to get the ball back. That's on the coach, and on the player.

[moocow007]

Read on Twitter

oof

Should have at least signed him instead of Fournier and whatever...

[Clyde_Style]

This thread along with this team's futility could be wrapped up in 1 page, nah F that, 1 heavily hate-soaked post. Not a whole lot to scrutinize over though I appreciate your efforts to try to keep things as toxic and interesting as you're able.

Bash the players all you want I won't stop you but the issue lies with the head of the snake, which in our case is getting balder and gobliner by the minute. The guy can't coach a modern offense, can't make proper mid-game adjustments, could not use Julius as a bigger offensive crutch if he wanted to, and his rotations may as well be carved onto his tombstone. Full blown psychopath at the reins folks.

Yet, do you believe Kemba and Fournier and now Julius “I Got Money” Randle making up the worst defensive starting unit in NBA history is Thibs’ fault?

I don’t. They just suck and teams easily erupt against us most 1st quarters because of it

P.S. Gargling with sulfuric acid does wonders for toxicity

[Jalen Bluntson]

This is really confusing to me how you guys just can't put two and two together, you cannot run an entire offense through 1 guy while everyone stands around and watches him. They brought in two guys who we know can score, yet now they can't score while playing in our offensive "system". Why doesn't it ever register that maybe Randle getting his numbers comes at the expense of the team having a coherent offense. Last night he scored, but we ran 76 possession through him, 15 of them were posts ups in which he averaged .73ppp, as a team we made only 249 passes in the game, and we had a 108.8 offensive rating which is almost exactly what Randle's individual career rating is. This is about as stagnant as an offense can get.


Last night, 20% of all of our shots came with 4-0 seconds left on the shot clock, that is horrible. The worst team in the league averages 12% of their shots coming that late in the clock. If you can't see what's happening, this is what the numbers are saying, we are running late clock posts up, making very little passes, and then when the clock is winding down it's 1 pass and shoot with no ball movement. Outside of signing all the best 3 & D shooters in the league there's no way to have a functioning offense like this. But, Randle got his.

Randle is fools gold. Decent player but ..not someone you build around. Too notch 6th man is his ceiling. Small ball 5. Not a player you run your offense through. He should be playing Center but... whatever.

Even with that being true, we could still have a better offense than what we're running now. The people saying we need better players around Randle is just wild to me, we know Kemba & Fournier can score, they suck on defense but they look horrible in our "system" now and it's just back to blaming everyone around Randle and not the stagnation his game brings to the table.

I agree completely.