Around the NBA part 2 - Save Melo from Brodie

[HEZI]

Tyler Herro just single handedly ripped an upset W away from Detroit. He plays so much like Booker.

He’s really really good. Him and RJ don’t belong in the same convo right now

[DOT]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

[HarthorneWingo]

Change the thread’s name to “Save Brodie From Melo” after tonight.

[SelbyCobra]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

[SelbyCobra]

God damn...

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I gotta work on that one.. that move was cold

Looks even better courtside...

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[Capn'O]

Jeff Green and JaMychal Green being on the same team should have been against the CBA.

[robillionaire]

Jeff Green and JaMychal Green being on the same team should have been against the CBA.

When they played the rockets earlier they had Jalen Green just to add to the confusion as well as Kevin Porter Jr to go with Michel Porter Jr and Eric Gordon with Aaron Gordon. It was silly

[Capn'O]

Jeff Green and JaMychal Green being on the same team should have been against the CBA.

When they played the rockets earlier they had Jalen Green just to add to the confusion as well as Kevin Porter Jr to go with Michel Porter Jr and Eric Gordon with Aaron Gordon. It was silly

Clyde would have walked out.

[god shammgod]

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i am an agent of chaos

[knicks94]

If KP can go another 7 straight games scoring 20 or more points without injuring himself there is no doubt in my mind that Dallas will 3PEAT.

[JXL]

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[Reign23]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

it is incredible that fox is still only 23 years old

[Buttah304]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

Sounds like your not a fan of his game. Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as how both RJ and Fox are lefty guards I wanted to pull up some side by side #s from last season.

RJ: 70 Games

Less than 5 feet = 52.8%
Less than 8 feet = 49.7%
Restricted Area = 55.4% (227/410)
Mid Range = 35.9% (46/128)

Fox: 58 Games

Less than 5 feet = 64.9%
Less than 8 feet = 61.1%
Restricted Area = 68.9% (224/325)
Mid Range = 39% (67/172)

We always talk about/highlight the fact that RJ is simply a poor finisher when he’s got a full steam ahead and what would appear to be an easy 2 points amounts to nothing practically half the time. In general I do believe this is a systemic problem with the Knicks as Obi is our only standout athlete.

Chanel - I’m not sure what the league average is with respect to these numbers (specifically from guards) but I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this breakdown.

We all know that Fox is a tantalizing prospect but he’s never been in a winning situation before. Now I fully remember when Booker was being called a certified chucker who didn’t add to the win column when he was shooting 42% FG his first 3 years in the league. CP3 changed that narrative. I also remember how much Bulls fans crapped all over LaVine his 1st year when he shot 38% FG and 33% from 3PT in 2017. Even after they acquired Vuc they became a worse team on both sides of the ball. It wasn’t until they added Ball and DeRozan that the narrative changed as well.

Is there any way you can envision Fox being apart of a winning ball club or do you just feel that he is who he is at this point. Last year age 22-23 he put up 25-7-4 on 48% FG and went to the FT line 7.2 times per game (in fact Fox was 4th in the NBA in drives per game at 18.4 and DeRozan was 6th at 18.2 and we all see how that type of offense is helping the Bulls out). To put it plainly, is Fox someone you would pursue if you were in the Knicks front office.

[Capn'O]

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Who wore it better?

[robillionaire]

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i am an agent of chaos

I remain confident he won't finish the season healthy

[JXL]

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Who wore it better?

[robillionaire]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

Sounds like your not a fan of his game. Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as how both RJ and Fox are lefty guards I wanted to pull up some side by side #s from last season.

RJ: 70 Games

Less than 5 feet = 52.8%
Less than 8 feet = 49.7%
Restricted Area = 55.4% (227/410)
Mid Range = 35.9% (46/128)

Fox: 58 Games

Less than 5 feet = 64.9%
Less than 8 feet = 61.1%
Restricted Area = 68.9% (224/325)
Mid Range = 39% (67/172)

We always talk about/highlight the fact that RJ is simply a poor finisher when he’s got a full steam ahead and what would appear to be an easy 2 points amounts to nothing practically half the time. In general I do believe this is a systemic problem with the Knicks as Obi is our only standout athlete.

Chanel - I’m not sure what the league average is with respect to these numbers (specifically from guards) but I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this breakdown.

We all know that Fox is a tantalizing prospect but he’s never been in a winning situation before. Now I fully remember when Booker was being called a certified chucker who didn’t add to the win column when he was shooting 42% FG his first 3 years in the league. CP3 changed that narrative. I also remember how much Bulls fans crapped all over LaVine his 1st year when he shot 38% FG and 33% from 3PT in 2017. Even after they acquired Vuc they became a worse team on both sides of the ball. It wasn’t until they added Ball and DeRozan that the narrative changed as well.

Is there any way you can envision Fox being apart of a winning ball club or do you just feel that he is who he is at this point. Last year age 22-23 he put up 25-7-4 on 48% FG and went to the FT line 7.2 times per game (in fact Fox was 4th in the NBA in drives per game at 18.4 and DeRozan was 6th at 18.2 and we all see how that type of offense is helping the Bulls out). To put it plainly, is Fox someone you would pursue if you were in the Knicks front office.

I agree with you. He is on the Kings. Nobody is thriving in that dysfunctional organization. Get him out of there and he could be a great PG. Unfortunately the Kings will never get rid of him and he's on the books until 2026

[Buttah304]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

Sounds like your not a fan of his game. Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as how both RJ and Fox are lefty guards I wanted to pull up some side by side #s from last season.

RJ: 70 Games

Less than 5 feet = 52.8%
Less than 8 feet = 49.7%
Restricted Area = 55.4% (227/410)
Mid Range = 35.9% (46/128)

Fox: 58 Games

Less than 5 feet = 64.9%
Less than 8 feet = 61.1%
Restricted Area = 68.9% (224/325)
Mid Range = 39% (67/172)

We always talk about/highlight the fact that RJ is simply a poor finisher when he’s got a full steam ahead and what would appear to be an easy 2 points amounts to nothing practically half the time. In general I do believe this is a systemic problem with the Knicks as Obi is our only standout athlete.

Chanel - I’m not sure what the league average is with respect to these numbers (specifically from guards) but I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this breakdown.

We all know that Fox is a tantalizing prospect but he’s never been in a winning situation before. Now I fully remember when Booker was being called a certified chucker who didn’t add to the win column when he was shooting 42% FG his first 3 years in the league. CP3 changed that narrative. I also remember how much Bulls fans crapped all over LaVine his 1st year when he shot 38% FG and 33% from 3PT in 2017. Even after they acquired Vuc they became a worse team on both sides of the ball. It wasn’t until they added Ball and DeRozan that the narrative changed as well.

Is there any way you can envision Fox being apart of a winning ball club or do you just feel that he is who he is at this point. Last year age 22-23 he put up 25-7-4 on 48% FG and went to the FT line 7.2 times per game (in fact Fox was 4th in the NBA in drives per game at 18.4 and DeRozan was 6th at 18.2 and we all see how that type of offense is helping the Bulls out). To put it plainly, is Fox someone you would pursue if you were in the Knicks front office.

I agree with you. He is on the Kings. Nobody is thriving in that dysfunctional organization. Get him out of there and he could be a great PG. Unfortunately the Kings will never get rid of him and he's on the books until 2026

What’s interesting is that they drafted Tyrese Halliburton and then Davion Mitchell (essentially 2 more point guards).

Fox is in the 2nd year of a 5/163 contract.

I wouldn’t be so sure to think that they will want to keep him at all costs. This is the same organization that let Bogdonovich walk to Atlanta for absolutely nothing. The other aspect is that they might be ready to move on from the Fox-Hield experiment (Hield actually comes off the bench these days). Even though Buddy is thriving in that role to me it’s an admission of failure.

At the end of the day Sacramento feels like the NBA version of purgatory. They passed on Luka because Vlade Divac had an issue with his father and went with Bagley 2nd overall who looks like he’s on a fast track to be out of the league. They were HYPED about Nick Stauskis with the 8th pick who now plays on the Grand Rapids G-League team. They gave Harrison Barnes 4/85 after he averaged 14 PPG with them.

They are an absolute disaster and Fox will be wasting away on a team that nobody cares about.

[Chanel Bomber]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

Sounds like your not a fan of his game. Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as how both RJ and Fox are lefty guards I wanted to pull up some side by side #s from last season.

RJ: 70 Games

Less than 5 feet = 52.8%
Less than 8 feet = 49.7%
Restricted Area = 55.4% (227/410)
Mid Range = 35.9% (46/128)

Fox: 58 Games

Less than 5 feet = 64.9%
Less than 8 feet = 61.1%
Restricted Area = 68.9% (224/325)
Mid Range = 39% (67/172)

We always talk about/highlight the fact that RJ is simply a poor finisher when he’s got a full steam ahead and what would appear to be an easy 2 points amounts to nothing practically half the time. In general I do believe this is a systemic problem with the Knicks as Obi is our only standout athlete.

Chanel - I’m not sure what the league average is with respect to these numbers (specifically from guards) but I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this breakdown.

We all know that Fox is a tantalizing prospect but he’s never been in a winning situation before. Now I fully remember when Booker was being called a certified chucker who didn’t add to the win column when he was shooting 42% FG his first 3 years in the league. CP3 changed that narrative. I also remember how much Bulls fans crapped all over LaVine his 1st year when he shot 38% FG and 33% from 3PT in 2017. Even after they acquired Vuc they became a worse team on both sides of the ball. It wasn’t until they added Ball and DeRozan that the narrative changed as well.

Is there any way you can envision Fox being apart of a winning ball club or do you just feel that he is who he is at this point. Last year age 22-23 he put up 25-7-4 on 48% FG and went to the FT line 7.2 times per game (in fact Fox was 4th in the NBA in drives per game at 18.4 and DeRozan was 6th at 18.2 and we all see how that type of offense is helping the Bulls out). To put it plainly, is Fox someone you would pursue if you were in the Knicks front office.

No in all seriousness I do think he can potentially be part of a winning club, but I also think he makes it very difficult for a team to win.

You make some excellent points, especially about his drives to the basket. He does primarily hunt shots that are efficient, and he seems to be a good finisher at the rim for a guard. Here's my case.

I don't think he's a "great" player. He's not good enough to be a high-usage player on a winning team in my opinion.

The Kings have had decent role players the last couple of years. Barnes is an excellent role player - versatile defender, 40% 3-point shooter. They have had shooters in Hield and Bogie. I'm not saying their roster is the 1986 Celtics, but their biggest problem is that Fox isn't impactful as a first or second option in my opinion, be it as a shot creator or playmaker. He does not impact the game positively in that role.

So, say he's your 3rd option, does his .319 career 3-point shooting help your team, or hurt your team? Wouldn't a less aggressive, but better shooting point guard make more sense in that configuration? Take FVV for instance.

I've always been a huge fan of Lavine. I always believed his losing was more the product of circumstances than his own shortcomings. And I had no doubt that Booker could contribute to winning and thrive in a lesser role, I just didn't think he could carry a team like a superstar.

I view Fox's ceiling as a Randle type of talent. Talented, physical, aggressive, but largely inefficient, and a basketball IQ that is inconsistent at best. I'm just not a huge fan. His biggest advantage is his speed, and his athleticism shines in transition, but it doesn't translate in the halfcourt as well it does for Lavine, Morant or young Dame imo.

On a winning team, Fox is probably a 14-3-4 guy, assuming his jumpshot is not too big of a problem in a lesser role.

Would Fox make us better? Probably. But not by much.

PS: Walton was horrible as a HC. Hopefully the Kings can hire a good coach now, and we can see Fox under a proper game manager.

[Buttah304]

De'Aaron Fox is gonna be 32 with no playoff appearance in his career and folks will still be talking about his potential.

Sounds like your not a fan of his game. Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as how both RJ and Fox are lefty guards I wanted to pull up some side by side #s from last season.

RJ: 70 Games

Less than 5 feet = 52.8%
Less than 8 feet = 49.7%
Restricted Area = 55.4% (227/410)
Mid Range = 35.9% (46/128)

Fox: 58 Games

Less than 5 feet = 64.9%
Less than 8 feet = 61.1%
Restricted Area = 68.9% (224/325)
Mid Range = 39% (67/172)

We always talk about/highlight the fact that RJ is simply a poor finisher when he’s got a full steam ahead and what would appear to be an easy 2 points amounts to nothing practically half the time. In general I do believe this is a systemic problem with the Knicks as Obi is our only standout athlete.

Chanel - I’m not sure what the league average is with respect to these numbers (specifically from guards) but I’m curious to see what your thoughts are on this breakdown.

We all know that Fox is a tantalizing prospect but he’s never been in a winning situation before. Now I fully remember when Booker was being called a certified chucker who didn’t add to the win column when he was shooting 42% FG his first 3 years in the league. CP3 changed that narrative. I also remember how much Bulls fans crapped all over LaVine his 1st year when he shot 38% FG and 33% from 3PT in 2017. Even after they acquired Vuc they became a worse team on both sides of the ball. It wasn’t until they added Ball and DeRozan that the narrative changed as well.

Is there any way you can envision Fox being apart of a winning ball club or do you just feel that he is who he is at this point. Last year age 22-23 he put up 25-7-4 on 48% FG and went to the FT line 7.2 times per game (in fact Fox was 4th in the NBA in drives per game at 18.4 and DeRozan was 6th at 18.2 and we all see how that type of offense is helping the Bulls out). To put it plainly, is Fox someone you would pursue if you were in the Knicks front office.

No in all seriousness I do think he can potentially be part of a winning club, but I also think he makes it very difficult for a team to win.

You make some excellent points, especially about his drives to the basket. He does primarily hunt shots that are efficient, and he seems to be a good finisher at the rim for a guard. Here's my case.

I don't think he's a "great" player. He's not good enough to be a high-usage player on a winning team in my opinion.

The Kings have had decent role players the last couple of years. Barnes is an excellent role player - versatile defender, 40% 3-point shooter. They have had shooters in Hield and Bogie. I'm not saying their roster is the 1986 Celtics, but their biggest problem is that Fox isn't impactful as a first or second option in my opinion, be it as a shot creator or playmaker. He does not impact the game positively in that role.

So, say he's your 3rd option, does his .319 career 3-point shooting help your team, or hurt your team? Wouldn't a less aggressive, but better shooting point guard make more sense in that configuration? Take FVV for instance.

I've always been a huge fan of Lavine. I always believed his losing was more the product of circumstances than his own shortcomings. And I had no doubt that Booker could contribute to winning and thrive in a lesser role, I just didn't think he could carry a team like a superstar.

I view Fox's ceiling as a Randle type of talent. Talented, physical, aggressive, but largely inefficient, and a basketball IQ that is inconsistent at best. I'm just not a huge fan. His biggest advantage is his speed, and his athleticism shines in transition, but it doesn't translate in the halfcourt as well it does for Lavine, Morant or young Dame imo.

On a winning team, Fox is probably a 14-3-4 guy, assuming his jumpshot is not too big of a problem in a lesser role.

Would Fox make us better? Probably. But not by much.

PS: Walton was horrible as a HC. Hopefully the Kings can hire a good coach now, and we can see Fox under a proper game manager.

I think the efficiency is what would scare me the most about a Randle and Fox pairing. It’s not that difficult to envision them both going 7-18 from the field on more nights than we would like to see. You also make a fair point that’s Fox hasn’t exactly played with the All NBA Scrub team. Guys like Harrison Barnes-Hield-Bogdonovic-Holmes are all super high end role players. At the same time he’s also never played next to someone that an opposing team has to actively game-plan for.

What I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt on is that regardless of who he played with, The Kings have never actually had an identity. His last coach was the laughable Luke Walton who should be banished from the league with how utterly inept and clueless he is.

At the end of the day, you can have top end talent, or you can be a team with depth lacking a key component or two but unless you have a legitimate coaching staff you are most likely going nowhere. There is something to be said about creating an identity for a team, or a structure if you will where everyone buys in and not only knows their role but excels at it.

Indiana is a prime example of a team that should be good on paper. You have Brogdon (whom this board absolutely loves), Sabonis (all star material), Turner (leagues best shot blocker who can hit the 3) and LaVert who warts and all can get buckets. Even Duarte has shown some flashes and Holiday is a nice bench player. But they are 8-11 and Carlisle is grasping for straws.

Point is, I just wonder if a guy like Thibs could bring the most out of a 23 year old guard who not only has shown he can score 25 a night, but he’s in that mold of a Thibs North South attacking/drive and kick PG who was recently Top 5 in drives per game. Not only would you hope (hate using that word) that he brings out the best in the skillset that Fox knows he possesses but also the ones that he might not know he has.

What I struggle with the most is this teams vision. What exactly are we doing? We signed Randle a year early after the ATL debacle. We keep going after carbon copies of players and doubling up on 6th-8th men thinking if your 10 deep that you’ll find miraculous success similar to the Tampa Bay Rays never ending bullpen depth. We put Payton in the way of IQs development and now we have done the same with Kemba. Obi can only crack 20min if 50% of our bigs are MIA. Grimes and Deuce are never going to play and all of our Future 1sts will find the same fate.

I only bring up Fox because who exactly are we targeting? The last few days we’ve been going back and forth about Fournier being movable (LOL) so who is this blockbuster acquisition? Lillard-Fox-KAT? Pipe dreams of SGA and DeJounte Murray?

As usual I’m completely lost as to where this never ending carousel of front office ponies are actually going.