Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

Skates · Post #601 » by **Skates** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:55 am

A lot of Simmons is about fit, because even if he turns nothing around more than getting his FT% into the upper 60-borderline 70% range, he is a 1-5 defensive menace who can cover his own guy and still haunt the passing lanes, is a top 5% NBA athlete, has the passing skills and is a one-man express train on the break. If Minnesota had more to give for Simmons they would give it all, because he is the perfect fit there. The problem is that he isn't going to do nearly much for a team that isn't built like that or planning to build around him like that. And yes, he could make a leap on offense and then he is All-NBA worthy routinely, but no one is counting on that. He has a lot of value, in the right situation.

Ironically one of the teams he would fit best at the moment, if he agreed to play as a wing instead of PG, would be the Sixers. The team is better without him this year not because he isn't there, but because they are a better team with all kinds of depth and a creator in Maxey. Replace Danny Green in the lineup with Simmons and run the offense through Maxey and Embiid and Curry, let Simmons look for breakouts from D, learn to cut like Thybulle is doing and just hang out in the corners otherwise like Danny Green, make that your one three-point shooting spot. I might even start Niang with that group or another shooter we could acquire, and let Harris and Milton be the sixth men.

At this point it may well be that Simmons is here until next off-season, when teams start building, rebuilding, adjusting to wanting to be the Warriors again and Simmons out there like a bigger, far more athletic Draymond. Sacto is too screwed up to get out of its own way right now, not sure Minnesota has the trade assets, or who the third team is if they do. The Spurs want a star, and some other teams that might be a fit for Simmons on their roster don't have available tradable pieces till the offseason. I'm also not convinced that at some point Embiid doesn't need surgery on that knee this year, hence the lack of urgency for Morey this season. He could be moved if Morey accepts something he didn't before, or takes a liking to the new look of the team and sees a different fit he might not have considered, but if not, we may be doing Simmons trade threads into draft/free agency time next offseason.

76ciology · Post #602 » by **76ciology** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:22 am

Skates wrote:A lot of Simmons is about fit, because even if he turns nothing around more than getting his FT% into the upper 60-borderline 70% range, he is a 1-5 defensive menace who can cover his own guy and still haunt the passing lanes, is a top 5% NBA athlete, has the passing skills and is a one-man express train on the break. If Minnesota had more to give for Simmons they would give it all, because he is the perfect fit there. The problem is that he isn't going to do nearly much for a team that isn't built like that or planning to build around him like that. And yes, he could make a leap on offense and then he is All-NBA worthy routinely, but no one is counting on that. He has a lot of value, in the right situation.

Ironically one of the teams he would fit best at the moment, if he agreed to play as a wing instead of PG, would be the Sixers. The team is better without him this year not because he isn't there, but because they are a better team with all kinds of depth and a creator in Maxey. Replace Danny Green in the lineup with Simmons and run the offense through Maxey and Embiid and Curry, let Simmons look for breakouts from D, learn to cut like Thybulle is doing and just hang out in the corners otherwise like Danny Green, make that your one three-point shooting spot. I might even start Niang with that group or another shooter we could acquire, and let Harris and Milton be the sixth men.

At this point it may well be that Simmons is here until next off-season, when teams start building, rebuilding, adjusting to wanting to be the Warriors again and Simmons out there like a bigger, far more athletic Draymond. Sacto is too screwed up to get out of its own way right now, not sure Minnesota has the trade assets, or who the third team is if they do. The Spurs want a star, and some other teams that might be a fit for Simmons on their roster don't have available tradable pieces till the offseason. I'm also not convinced that at some point Embiid doesn't need surgery on that knee this year, hence the lack of urgency for Morey this season. He could be moved if Morey accepts something he didn't before, or takes a liking to the new look of the team and sees a different fit he might not have considered, but if not, we may be doing Simmons trade threads into draft/free agency time next offseason.

You wont be able to run an effective dribble drive offense with Biid and Ben. Its not just sliding Ben and letting Maxey, Seth and Tobi run dribble drive.

And Ben wouldn't want to just be playing off ball because it will hurt his chance for a big payday when his contract is up. He’d want a big role before his current contract is up, because he’s projected to get his biggest payday by then.

That said, given what you just said, a guy like Jerami Grant looks like someone who’d fit what you are describing Ben’s role would be on this team

Negrodamus · Post #603 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:44 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.

Your first mistake was listening to a Celtics fans, especially a casual, craft a trade. They are conditioned to try and rob you.

Tomjas · Post #604 » by **Tomjas** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:04 am

76ciology wrote:
Skates wrote:A lot of Simmons is about fit, because even if he turns nothing around more than getting his FT% into the upper 60-borderline 70% range, he is a 1-5 defensive menace who can cover his own guy and still haunt the passing lanes, is a top 5% NBA athlete, has the passing skills and is a one-man express train on the break. If Minnesota had more to give for Simmons they would give it all, because he is the perfect fit there. The problem is that he isn't going to do nearly much for a team that isn't built like that or planning to build around him like that. And yes, he could make a leap on offense and then he is All-NBA worthy routinely, but no one is counting on that. He has a lot of value, in the right situation.

Ironically one of the teams he would fit best at the moment, if he agreed to play as a wing instead of PG, would be the Sixers. The team is better without him this year not because he isn't there, but because they are a better team with all kinds of depth and a creator in Maxey. Replace Danny Green in the lineup with Simmons and run the offense through Maxey and Embiid and Curry, let Simmons look for breakouts from D, learn to cut like Thybulle is doing and just hang out in the corners otherwise like Danny Green, make that your one three-point shooting spot. I might even start Niang with that group or another shooter we could acquire, and let Harris and Milton be the sixth men.

At this point it may well be that Simmons is here until next off-season, when teams start building, rebuilding, adjusting to wanting to be the Warriors again and Simmons out there like a bigger, far more athletic Draymond. Sacto is too screwed up to get out of its own way right now, not sure Minnesota has the trade assets, or who the third team is if they do. The Spurs want a star, and some other teams that might be a fit for Simmons on their roster don't have available tradable pieces till the offseason. I'm also not convinced that at some point Embiid doesn't need surgery on that knee this year, hence the lack of urgency for Morey this season. He could be moved if Morey accepts something he didn't before, or takes a liking to the new look of the team and sees a different fit he might not have considered, but if not, we may be doing Simmons trade threads into draft/free agency time next offseason.

You wont be able to run an effective dribble drive offense with Biid and Ben. Its not just sliding Ben and letting Maxey, Seth and Tobi run dribble drive.

And Ben wouldn't want to just be playing off ball because it will hurt his chance for a big payday when his contract is up. He’d want a big role before his current contract is up, because he’s projected to get his biggest payday by then.

That said, given what you just said, a guy like Jerami Grant looks like someone who’d fit what you are describing Ben’s role would be on this team

Simmons plays off the ball all the time so that’s not an issue

The problem is that we haven’t had another ball handler since TJ

76ciology · Post #605 » by **76ciology** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:07 pm

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Kobblehead · Post #606 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:02 pm

Haliburton followed up his 33 minute, 0 point effort against us with 33 minutes and 6 points against Portland. Has now scored single digits in 5 of the last 7 games (playing 33.1 mpg during this stretch).

Tomjas · Post #607 » by **Tomjas** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:15 pm

76ciology wrote:Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Literally all the time

Do you actually watch this team play?

Meanwhile

DrUmMoNd Is GoOd

Kobblehead · Post #608 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:56 pm

Ben Simmons has no offball value. He doesn't shoot. His only value off the ball would be to set screens and roll to the basket (a role he views beneath his dignity). Therefore, again, he has no offball value.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #609 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:19 pm

Kobblehead wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.

Yikes, I didn't know Danny Ainge cut hair!

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #610 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:22 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.

Your first mistake was listening to a Celtics fans, especially a casual, craft a trade. They are conditioned to try and rob you.

Hold up now, there's a difference between listening and hearing. I can quote Sidney Deane if you like. I was hearing this crap coming out of his mouth, but I definitely was not listening to it. At that point, I was just trying to keep the peace so he didn't shave a dick into the side of my kids head.

Iverson Armband · Post #611 » by **Iverson Armband** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:55 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:The barber dude that cuts my kids hair is a Celtics fan. Super cool guy! We were talking Ben Simmons the other day. From the casual fans perspective (which is what he is), he basically said that he would give up Schroeder and filler for Ben Simmons. Not even Marcus Smart was on the table. Again, he's just a casual fan like myself, but I really couldn't believe that was all he said he would personally offer. I didn't want to take the conversation any further after that and I kept everything cool and casual. I think his value is somewhere in between what the casual fan thinks and what Daryl Morey expects to get. So we are talking role players and picks at this point.

Your first mistake was listening to a Celtics fans, especially a casual, craft a trade. They are conditioned to try and rob you.

Hold up now, there's a difference between listening and hearing. I can quote Sidney Deane if you like. I was hearing this crap coming out of his mouth, but I definitely was not listening to it. At that point, I was just trying to keep the peace so he didn't shave a dick into the side of my kids head.

76ciology · Post #612 » by **76ciology** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:24 pm

Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Literally all the time

Do you actually watch this team play?

Meanwhile

DrUmMoNd Is GoOd

No. I usually just open leaguepass listen on what the tv guys are saying while I watch random justin bieber music videos without any audio

DCasey91 · Post #613 » by **DCasey91** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:43 pm

I’m actually on the bring back Ben plan. Setup like this:

Maxey
Green
Niang
Ben
Embiid

Curry
Milton
Thybulle
Harris
Drummond

Looks good to me. See who or any team that wants Harris/Korkmaz and take this to the playoffs. Wall could be an option

Negrodamus · Post #614 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:51 pm

Why is there any talk about him returning. It's so clear there's not long term, relationship-saving strategy available for him.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #615 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:17 pm

If this was going to be salvaged it would have happened at the start of the season when all the players reached out to him. Ben is gone in my mind. It's Tyrese Maxey now.

sixerswillrule · Post #616 » by **sixerswillrule** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:19 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Why is there any talk about him returning. It's so clear there's not long term, relationship-saving strategy available for him.

Agreed. I'd be shocked if he plays here again.

Post #617 » by **sixers hoops** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:25 pm

Tomjas wrote:
76ciology wrote:Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Does Simmons “play off the ball all the time”?

Hmm…

Literally all the time

Do you actually watch this team play?

Meanwhile

DrUmMoNd Is GoOd

He doesn’t play off the ball. He only stands off the ball. He can’t shoot or create a shot. Earlier in his career, he could get to the hoop and finish, but now he is terrified of getting fouled, so he can’t even do that.

Negrodamus · Post #618 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:38 pm

Dillon Brooks
Desmond Bane
Kyle Anderson
De'Anthony Melton

for Ben Simmons

Thoughts? Griz likely wouldn't do that since it completely guts their perimeter, but Ben fits with Jaren Jackson and adds much needed defense to a horrendous defensive team.

mjkvol · Post #619 » by **mjkvol** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:54 pm

DCasey91 wrote:I’m actually on the bring back Ben plan. Setup like this:

Maxey
Green
Niang
Ben
Embiid

Curry
Milton
Thybulle
Harris
Drummond

Looks good to me. See who or any team that wants Harris/Korkmaz and take this to the playoffs. Wall could be an option

That horse left the barn and is long gone. I can't even imagine how awkward it would be if Simmons walked into the locker room at this point, and how on earth would Doc sell his return to guys who have been working since day one and whose roles have been established at this point. You're going to tell a pro that he needs to sit for this ingrate? No way Doc could do that and keep the respect of the team.

And that doesn't even take into account whether Simmons is in anything close to game shape. On paper a lot of things can make sense, but the reality of that scenario is just too bizarre to fathom that it could happen.

JRoy · Post #620 » by **JRoy** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:09 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Haliburton followed up his 33 minute, 0 point effort against us with 33 minutes and 6 points against Portland. Has now scored single digits in 5 of the last 7 games (playing 33.1 mpg during this stretch).

I don’t know what’s going on with Halliburton. He seems to check all the boxes to be an impact player but he seemed to be looking not to shoot against POR. He took a few shots but he had opportunities to take several more and passed them off to other players.