Is LeBron James still top 10?

[PistolPeteJR]

I'm a Lebron detractor but I still would take him over anyone if the Finals started today

Really?? Last year in the Finals Giannis averaged 35, 13, and 5 on 61% shooting. Against the Suns in the playoffs last year Lebron averaged 23, 8, and 7 on 47% shooting.

The thing I don't get about this thread is how people can have James Harden ranked ahead of Lebron. They took away BS calls, Harden is older and he hasn't done the best job of taking care of his body. I trust Lebron in the playoffs a lot more than I trust Harden.

The only players I have ranked ahead of Lebron are Giannis, Durant, Kawhi, Steph, Jokic, Embiid, and Doncic. I think Lebron is pretty clearly the 8th best player in the league.

Context is key.

[picc]

Lebron

1. Cant beat guys off the dribble anymore
2. Cant elevate and finish over contest/contact at the rim anymore
3. Repeatedly gets stonewalled and stripped in isolation now
4. Settles for fadeaways and long jumpers like post prime Kobe
5. Has no gas on defense
6. As a result of numbers 1 and 3, his playmaking is affected negatively
7. Does not demand doubles as teams are content with guarding him with one man

A lot has changed since even two years ago. He looked on the verge of washed up against the Suns in the playoffs, and we all assumed it wouldnt last simply because he’s Lebron.

Well, he looks even worse this season. Father time is kicking his ass in revenge for all those ironman years before. And the lakers are ****, i believe, this year.

[Jazz9]

His days of being the best or even top 5 are over but he's still top 10.

[payton2kemp]

If fully healthy guys I would take over Lebron.

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. KD
4. Curry
5. Embiid
6. Luka
7. Kawhi
8. Harden
9. Lebron

Father time has finally caught up to Lebron, an amazing career but he's just not that dominant beast he used to be. I mean they lost to the Kings in triple OT. Lebron from a couple of years ago closes that game early.

That Westbrook trade was costly, they aren't winning anything this year, either way he's almost 37! Amazing career last goal is the all time scoring record if he can't win another chip.

[LesGrossman]

I feel like LeBron would be best served as a 2nd/3rd option at this point and honestly, when they acquired Anthony Davis, I was pretty confident he'd be able to make that transition but AD has been nothing short of disappointing and Pelinka traded away all of their depth for RWB.

Awful situation, OT Father Time is undefeated and LeBron is now a Top 10 player rather than a Top 3 or 5.

Thats really a weird take imho. I feel like AD was the real MVP of the title playoffs with the exception of a short span in the actual finals. AD was more crucial for their title than LeBron, on both ends. I dont think he is disappointing as much as their style of play, which is completely designed around LeBron, is limiting him strictly to a guy who waits for LeBron to pass instead of creating with the ball in his hand. Chris Bosh, Kevin Love were previous examples of players who were highly regarded in the league until they joined LeBron, at which point they suddenly appeared incompetent and completely dependant on him. Coincidence?

[Lockdown504090]

Ppl ahead of him in no order
Curry
Giannis
Jokić
Kd
Luka
Kawhi
I don’t see a reasonable argument for anyone else. , and even kawhi and Luka re kinda iffy.

Top 5 players in the league right now are:
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Durant
Butler

Those guys are indisputably better than Lebron.

I'd say the following players are also better than Lebron:
Luka
Davis

If Embiid and Kawhi were healthy, they'd be ahead of Lebron, but then, is it fair to apply that argument and not apply it to Lebron?

After that, there's a real falloff. There are a lot of first option scorers who can make a case that they've passed Lebron, guys like Paul George, Jayson Tatum, Demar DeRozan, KAT, Trae Young, Ja Morant, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, but none of them have made the case convincingly. There's a couple of defensive anchors who can make the case that their impact rivals Lebron, guys like Gobert, Bam and Draymond. Maybe the stat geeks could make that argument, but defense is always undervalued in top 10 consideration.

So I'd say Lebron is still in the 8-10 range, depending on how one counts Embiid and Kawhi.

based on just this year, that’s not unfair. Still really impressive for someone with his mileage

[LoveMyRaps]

Top 5 players in the league right now are:
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Durant
Butler

Those guys are indisputably better than Lebron.

Butler is not better than LeBron. Stop it.

[Strepbacter]

I feel like LeBron would be best served as a 2nd/3rd option at this point and honestly, when they acquired Anthony Davis, I was pretty confident he'd be able to make that transition but AD has been nothing short of disappointing and Pelinka traded away all of their depth for RWB.

Awful situation, OT Father Time is undefeated and LeBron is now a Top 10 player rather than a Top 3 or 5.

Thats really a weird take imho. I feel like AD was the real MVP of the title playoffs with the exception of a short span in the actual finals. AD was more crucial for their title than LeBron, on both ends. I dont think he is disappointing as much as their style of play, which is completely designed around LeBron, is limiting him strictly to a guy who waits for LeBron to pass instead of creating with the ball in his hand. Chris Bosh, Kevin Love were previous examples of players who were highly regarded in the league until they joined LeBron, at which point they suddenly appeared incompetent and completely dependant on him. Coincidence?

Yep. LeBron has made a career of marginalizing star bigs.

[Rendei]

His production so far this year is absolutely not top 10.

I do think he could still be top 10 when he gets serious, but he hasn't shown that yet this season.

[nate33]

Top 5 players in the league right now are:
Curry
Giannis
Jokic
Durant
Butler

Those guys are indisputably better than Lebron.

Butler is not better than LeBron. Stop it.

Go look at his numbers. Butler is a legit MVP candidate.

[CobraCommander]

His production so far this year is absolutely not top 10.

I do think he could still be top 10 when he gets serious, but he hasn't shown that yet this season.

So again who those 10 more productive nba players this year again? Asking for a friend

[CobraCommander]

If fully healthy guys I would take over Lebron.

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. KD
4. Curry
5. Embiid
6. Luka
7. Kawhi
8. Harden
9. Lebron

Father time has finally caught up to Lebron, an amazing career but he's just not that dominant beast he used to be. I mean they lost to the Kings in triple OT. Lebron from a couple of years ago closes that game early.

That Westbrook trade was costly, they aren't winning anything this year, either way he's almost 37! Amazing career last goal is the all time scoring record if he can't win another chip.

But that’s not really the point right? Cause Lebron is playing right now...and if talking right now is he top ten on earth...he playing better than Harden and Luka (check all numbers) and Kawhi hurt....so right now today on planet earth who are the 10 guys you think better this year?

I agree next year harden and Luka and damn near all of them should be better than next year Lebron but this year?

[LesGrossman]

If fully healthy guys I would take over Lebron.

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. KD
4. Curry
5. Embiid
6. Luka
7. Kawhi
8. Harden
9. Lebron

Father time has finally caught up to Lebron, an amazing career but he's just not that dominant beast he used to be. I mean they lost to the Kings in triple OT. Lebron from a couple of years ago closes that game early.

That Westbrook trade was costly, they aren't winning anything this year, either way he's almost 37! Amazing career last goal is the all time scoring record if he can't win another chip.

But that’s not really the point right? Cause Lebron is playing right now...and if talking right now is he top ten on earth...he playing better than Harden and Luka (check all numbers) and Kawhi hurt....so right now today on planet earth who are the 10 guys you think better this year?

I agree next year harden and Luka and damn near all of them should be better than next year Lebron but this year?

I would say there are a lot of guys if plugged in for him into that Lakers roster will do considerably better. Luka and Harden DO play better than him, even on defense even though both are a disgrace on D. But what about guys like Draymond, what would make LeBron better than him? Draymond is easily the playmaker Bron is, is elite on defense and makes his team mates better. He plays alongside one all star and their results are simply in a different world compared to the Lakers, and to a good part due to Draymond. What about CP3, Booker? Look at the Suns' results if you wanna talk numbers. I can think of many, many guys who would do more with less compared to 2021 LeBron. He can only prance and show off vs. weak teams and often enough not even that. Avoids playing real tough competition. Somehow he is injured but can play 40+ minutes vs. the Kings?

Come on.

[Duke4life831]

Id say 11-15. And I would still be confident come playoff time LeBron can turn it up and be a guy like 6th-8th or so. Like others have said, some of the obvious guys over LeBron

Curry
Jokic
Giannis
KD
Embiid

I dont think even if the playoffs come around and LeBron turns it up, I dont think he's surpassing those guys. And during the regular season when LeBron isn't turning it up and not putting much effort on the defensive end and stretches where he just coasts. I think there is 4-5 more guys I would choose over LeBron for the regular season.

So ya I would say 11-15 during the regular season, 6-8th during playoffs.

[Rendei]

His production so far this year is absolutely not top 10.

I do think he could still be top 10 when he gets serious, but he hasn't shown that yet this season.

So again who those 10 more productive nba players this year again? Asking for a friend

Jokic, Giannis, Curry, Durant, Paul, Harden, AD, Trae Young, Lavine, Morant, LeMelo, and the list goes on for guys having a better season than Lebron right now. This isn't even for total counting stats since Lebron has been out, but for per minute stats and advanced stats.

Random example: Lebron is averaging 0.111 WS/48 so far this season. Which would put him at 84th in the league if he had played enough minutes to qualify. Most of his stats look like this right now. He hasn't been top 10 so far this year at all.

[VanWest82]

He might not be a top 5 player anymore but he's definitely a top 5 wrestling heel. Maybe he could sign with WWE or AEW.

[Dino353]

He is still the best player in the NBA and will be this season and the next.

[AmIWrongDude]

If fully healthy guys I would take over Lebron.

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. KD
4. Curry
5. Embiid
6. Luka
7. Kawhi
8. Harden
9. Lebron

Father time has finally caught up to Lebron, an amazing career but he's just not that dominant beast he used to be. I mean they lost to the Kings in triple OT. Lebron from a couple of years ago closes that game early.

That Westbrook trade was costly, they aren't winning anything this year, either way he's almost 37! Amazing career last goal is the all time scoring record if he can't win another chip.

But that’s not really the point right? Cause Lebron is playing right now...and if talking right now is he top ten on earth...he playing better than Harden and Luka (check all numbers) and Kawhi hurt....so right now today on planet earth who are the 10 guys you think better this year?

I agree next year harden and Luka and damn near all of them should be better than next year Lebron but this year?

I would say there are a lot of guys if plugged in for him into that Lakers roster will do considerably better. Luka and Harden DO play better than him, even on defense even though both are a disgrace on D. But what about guys like Draymond, what would make LeBron better than him? Draymond is easily the playmaker Bron is, is elite on defense and makes his team mates better. He plays alongside one all star and their results are simply in a different world compared to the Lakers, and to a good part due to Draymond. What about CP3, Booker? Look at the Suns' results if you wanna talk numbers. I can think of many, many guys who would do more with less compared to 2021 LeBron. He can only prance and show off vs. weak teams and often enough not even that. Avoids playing real tough competition. Somehow he is injured but can play 40+ minutes vs. the Kings?

Come on.

This is bad....even for you. I think you should take a break.

[picc]

Question for those who think Lebron will turn it on in the playoffs and be top 1-8 (or whatever ranking you would give).

Watching him vs Phx last playoffs, did you think he was playing like a top 1-8 player?

[LesGrossman]

But that’s not really the point right? Cause Lebron is playing right now...and if talking right now is he top ten on earth...he playing better than Harden and Luka (check all numbers) and Kawhi hurt....so right now today on planet earth who are the 10 guys you think better this year?

I agree next year harden and Luka and damn near all of them should be better than next year Lebron but this year?

I would say there are a lot of guys if plugged in for him into that Lakers roster will do considerably better. Luka and Harden DO play better than him, even on defense even though both are a disgrace on D. But what about guys like Draymond, what would make LeBron better than him? Draymond is easily the playmaker Bron is, is elite on defense and makes his team mates better. He plays alongside one all star and their results are simply in a different world compared to the Lakers, and to a good part due to Draymond. What about CP3, Booker? Look at the Suns' results if you wanna talk numbers. I can think of many, many guys who would do more with less compared to 2021 LeBron. He can only prance and show off vs. weak teams and often enough not even that. Avoids playing real tough competition. Somehow he is injured but can play 40+ minutes vs. the Kings?

Come on.

This is bad....even for you. I think you should take a break.

I ask a very simple question and this is all you can come back with? Name one thing LeBron does better today than Draymond. I can name several that Draymond does better.

Yes you are wrong, dude. Try again, try to make an actual point, address the topic, avoid personal attacks. That would be a good start. Even for you.