The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[Marmoset]

Giddey is awesome. Him and Mobley were the only players I was right about in this draft lol (but I still didn't have the guts to rank Giddey ahead of Suggs).

I still can't wrap my head around how bad Cade, Green, and Suggs have been.

I think all three of those guys have shown something even while being disappointing. Cade and Suggs have shown a lot of positives outside of their shooting woes. Meanwhile, the Rockets are truly horrible on a level I've rarely seen - much worse than any other team this year. Because of that I have to give Jalen Green some benefit of the doubt. Of course you can argue he is part of the reason for it, but there have been flashes with Green.

Right now I feel pretty confident that there will be no true busts in the top 6. (I'd say top 9 except Kuminga hasn't really played so I have no idea about him yet). There may be guys who disappoint relative to expectations, but nobody looks like a Thabeet, Milicic, Bennett, Thomas Robinson, etc.

One big mystery for me is Bouknight in Charlotte. I'm extremely surprised that he's barely played at all. It's not like he was expected to see the minutes the top rookies are, but he often doesn't even play in garbage time.

[WaltFrazier]

Giddey is awesome. Him and Mobley were the only players I was right about in this draft lol (but I still didn't have the guts to rank Giddey ahead of Suggs).

I still can't wrap my head around how bad Cade, Green, and Suggs have been.

Being on bad teams will do that to rookies

Then how do you explain the play of Scottie Barnes

Scottie's on a team with some talented players. Suggs in particular is on a bad team but with a guard who was a rookie just last year. On a different team like say Boston he'd be thriving even if not starting

[Got Nuffin]

Then how do you explain the play of Scottie Barnes

Scottie's on a team with some talented players. Suggs in particular is on a bad team but with a guard who was a rookie just last year. On a different team like say Boston he'd be thriving even if not starting

I could see him doing well in Boston because they have 2 ball dominant players and Suggs wouldn't be required to do much other than play defence, run in transition and spot up. It's when he's asked to be ball-dominant that he struggles as he has limited handles, can't finish well at the rim. Then when his shooting is off like it was earlier in the season his play falls off a cliff.

Suggs would struggle mightily if he and Barnes switched places imo, and would probably be sitting competing with Malachi Flynn for minutes. Whether Barnes develops into the ball-dominant playmaker we want him to be or not, he is the guy who you could literally plug into any team and he'd be contributing and putting up at least ok stats as a rookie anywhere.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Then how do you explain the play of Scottie Barnes

Scottie's on a team with some talented players. Suggs in particular is on a bad team but with a guard who was a rookie just last year. On a different team like say Boston he'd be thriving even if not starting

I could see him doing well in Boston because they have 2 ball dominant players and Suggs wouldn't be required to do much other than play defence, run in transition and spot up. It's when he's asked to be ball-dominant that he struggles as he has limited handles, can't finish well at the rim. Then when his shooting is off like it was earlier in the season his play falls off a cliff.

Suggs would struggle mightily if he and Barnes switched places imo, and would probably be sitting competing with Malachi Flynn for minutes. Whether Barnes develops into the ball-dominant playmaker we want him to be or not, he is the guy who you could literally plug into any team and he'd be contributing and putting up at least ok stats as a rookie anywhere.

yup. that's why the Raptors didn't pick him. he's not better than Flynn offensively but his defensive prowess is for real.

Someone on their forum actually said he's another Marcus Smart, which isn't far from the truth, right now. Smart was picked #6.

[OhCanada1091]

Giddey is awesome. Him and Mobley were the only players I was right about in this draft lol (but I still didn't have the guts to rank Giddey ahead of Suggs).

I still can't wrap my head around how bad Cade, Green, and Suggs have been.

Being on bad teams will do that to rookies

No, so far it looks like they were overhyped. This is not the case of being on a bad team. They should be scoring the lights out actually.

Its also due to the rule changes. Guards haven't been able to do whatever they want this year. Size and versatility is the way to go.

[QingJames]

Just given their physical profiles, I dont ever see Suggs being more valuable than Barnes.

It was always a higher floor/higher ceiling issue. And Scottie has addressed any concern there. His floor is now equivalent to Suggs', and his ceiling (some sort of mashup of Giannis and Draymond) is considerably higher.

Having said that, Suggs' defence is really good, while Scottie's is a work in progress.

Draymond in the same sentence as Giannis is comical. If Barnes comparison is draymond than he’s a failure.

Don’t let NBA media/Twitter find comparable for you.

If Barnes compares to arguably the best defensive wing of all time he’s a failure? Gimme a break…

[OakleyDokely]

Just given their physical profiles, I dont ever see Suggs being more valuable than Barnes.

It was always a higher floor/higher ceiling issue. And Scottie has addressed any concern there. His floor is now equivalent to Suggs', and his ceiling (some sort of mashup of Giannis and Draymond) is considerably higher.

Having said that, Suggs' defence is really good, while Scottie's is a work in progress.

Draymond in the same sentence as Giannis is comical. If Barnes comparison is draymond than he’s a failure.

Don’t let NBA media/Twitter find comparable for you.

There's a decent chance Draymond is going to the hall of fame.

[Sheldon Cooper]

It was always a higher floor/higher ceiling issue. And Scottie has addressed any concern there. His floor is now equivalent to Suggs', and his ceiling (some sort of mashup of Giannis and Draymond) is considerably higher.

Having said that, Suggs' defence is really good, while Scottie's is a work in progress.

Draymond in the same sentence as Giannis is comical. If Barnes comparison is draymond than he’s a failure.

Don’t let NBA media/Twitter find comparable for you.

There's a decent chance Draymond is going to the hall of fame.

I'd say he's a first ballot hall of famer once he retires. His resume is bonkers, multiple time all-star, multiple time all-nba, multiple time all-nba-defensive, dpoy, three times champion. Suggesting that Barnes will be a failure if he turns out like Draymond Green is what's comical.

[CANsportsguru]

I was team Suggs at #4 and was wrong. Barnes is clearly better at this point and it's not close.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

It was always a higher floor/higher ceiling issue. And Scottie has addressed any concern there. His floor is now equivalent to Suggs', and his ceiling (some sort of mashup of Giannis and Draymond) is considerably higher.

Having said that, Suggs' defence is really good, while Scottie's is a work in progress.

Draymond in the same sentence as Giannis is comical. If Barnes comparison is draymond than he’s a failure.

Don’t let NBA media/Twitter find comparable for you.

There's a decent chance Draymond is going to the hall of fame.

There was nothing wrong that was said by saying Barnes is a combination of Giannis and Draymond.

What Johanliebert doesn’t know is there is a difference between:

1) complimenting Barnes defensive potential of both Draymond and Giannis (both DPOY by the way) and Giannis’ potential to just dominate downlow offensively….

2) And comparing Draymond to Giannis directly.

[johanliebert]

Basketball philosophers still overvaluing draymond?

Barnes has higher expectations.

[Courtside]

Basketball philosophers still overvaluing draymond?

Barnes has higher expectations.

This board has higher expectations than you passing off your casual takes as some kind of expertise that everyone should all bow down and listen to.

[yellowknifer]

There isn't a debate at all. Suggs seems like a good guy but he isn't in the same stratosphere.

[Vampirate]

It was always a higher floor/higher ceiling issue. And Scottie has addressed any concern there. His floor is now equivalent to Suggs', and his ceiling (some sort of mashup of Giannis and Draymond) is considerably higher.

Having said that, Suggs' defence is really good, while Scottie's is a work in progress.

Draymond in the same sentence as Giannis is comical. If Barnes comparison is draymond than he’s a failure.

Don’t let NBA media/Twitter find comparable for you.

There's a decent chance Draymond is going to the hall of fame.

In terms of HOF in sports, the Basketball HOF is by far the weakest.

Making the BB HOF isn't THAT great of an accomplishment tbh.

[God Squad]

Suggs struggles honestly confuse me.

1. I didn't know his handle was this weak
2. Can't finish at the rim, even though he's got a good build/athletic
3. The jumpshot is totally off/streaky

1 and 2 were something he was good at in college, but can't do anything against better competition. If he can get these things under control you can see a Jrue Holiday type with Suggs great defense. If not, then he's likely a mix of George Hill/ Marcus Smart. But the Brandon Roy comps were just fans hoping for something that he wasn't.

Mobley was the player I was hoping would fall somehow ( Thanks PhilBlackson!...LIAR). I still have high hopes for Green, but clearly it won't be this year IMO because he has A LOT to work on in order to become an NBA player. But the flashes of what he could be are there.

[God Squad]

If the Raps had drafted Suggs, we'd say Barnes is ahead at this point, but is only 20 games. We would point out that guys like Butler averaged 3 PPG or Dirk shot 20% from 3PT in their rookie season. Barnes/Suggs' rookie season still has 62 games left.

Suggs' defense is very good, as good as advertised for someone who played only 20 games. His issue is he can't shoot from long distance. Looking at the stats, 42% of his shots are from 3PT and he's doing it at a paltry rate of 25% (similar to Barnes). 49% of Suggs' shots are from beyond 16ft vs. only 18% for Barnes. Suggs is attempting 5 3PT shots per game vs. 1 attempt for Barnes.

All these misses on high volume and he's lost confidence but don't expect this to continue forever. We are fully expecting Barnes to improve his 3PT shot, so why not give the same leeway to Suggs? It's only 20 games into a long career for both high IQ players with excellent work ethic. Yes, Barnes is clearly ahead but it's a long season and a long career for both. The race has begun, not ended.

Barnes at his peak ceiling vs Suggs at his peak = Barnes by a landslide. It's okay I'll wait all season.

[Ell Curry]

Basketball philosophers still overvaluing draymond?

Barnes has higher expectations.

This board has higher expectations than you passing off your casual takes as some kind of expertise that everyone should all bow down and listen to.

I'm struggling to conceive of just how great someone thinks Curry is if they don't have Draymond as a hall of famer as they appear to be having another all-time season with him as their #2 player. He'd have to be your GOAT by a mile.

[OakleyDokely]

Basketball philosophers still overvaluing draymond?

Barnes has higher expectations.

This board has higher expectations than you passing off your casual takes as some kind of expertise that everyone should all bow down and listen to.

I'm struggling to conceive of just how great someone thinks Curry is if they don't have Draymond as a hall of famer as they appear to be having another all-time season with him as their #2 player. He'd have to be your GOAT by a mile.

It's funny reading that if your #4 pick turns into a borderline hall of famer, that's a "failure"

[LBJKB24MJ23]

This board has higher expectations than you passing off your casual takes as some kind of expertise that everyone should all bow down and listen to.

I'm struggling to conceive of just how great someone thinks Curry is if they don't have Draymond as a hall of famer as they appear to be having another all-time season with him as their #2 player. He'd have to be your GOAT by a mile.

It's funny reading that if your #4 pick turns into a borderline hall of famer, that's a "failure"

Lol


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[Axe Dragon]

One of these things is not like others…


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