2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 3)

[Vampirate]

Mobfather is back plays out and he’s the runaway rookie of the year, All NBA defensive second team and All Star relative to his peers.

He’s been the most impactful rookie without question.

Can’t get why Cade got even a mention in the race he’s been so poor shooting wise across the aboard and has played less games.

Mobley
Gap
Barnes
Gap
Wagner
Giddey

That should be the top 5 so far.

I'm going to correct you here, there's a noticeable gap thus far between Mobley and Barnes, but there's also just as much of a noticeable gap between Barnes and whomever is in 3rd.

Wagner is shooting well but doesn't rebound or get to the rim/FT line like Barnes can.

Giddey has loads of potential, but he's not close to an efficient scorer thus far.

My point is after Barnes the rest are just deeply flawed or are in a deep shooting funk struggling offensively so far.

[CptCrunch]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

Difference between Mobley and Barnes is not that huge as some people would say. Barnes is still ahead of Mobley in points, rebounds, assists and steals. Mobley is ahead of Barnes in 2 point %, 3 point %, free throw %, blocks, turnovers and true shooting %.

If Barnes picks up his defense to be as good as he was at start of season then it will be very competitive.

This is literally the very definition of grasping at straws.

[basketballRob]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

What stat is this sorted by?

Looks like the best players are on the top.

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[DroseReturnChi]

I agree, Mobley is pretty easy to project forwards at this point.

Green is going to be a scoring champion at some point probably.

Cade is gonna be an anchor for Detroit while hitting some clutch shot sin his career like Paul Pierce.

Suggs looks like a defensive specialist who needs to grow his offensive game.

Barnes is a complete mystery, his theoretical ceiling is in the stars but it's difficult to see what he can become because he was drafted so raw offensively but has made big strides even being a bad 3 point shooter still.

Some say Iggy, others say Scottie Pippen in terms of who they remind you of, maybe he goes lower than those 2, maybe higher.

Maybe he works hard enough to be the next Kawhi, or something else, or maybe he's just gonna be Draymond light?

I've always thought he was a mix of a Kawhi/Giannis personally although obviously he's nowhere close to those 2.

It'll be interesting to see moving forwards.

mobley is not a project hes a star in day 1. barnes has pippen potential but thats a big if his floor is draymond which is very good but more low usage role player. the downside of developing giannis is you need to tank and build around him. that starts by trading everyone except og and i have not seen any indication. masai is probably in agony. prospects are all abt team believing in you regardless of how good you are. you can draft a lebron and still bust if wolves/kings get him.
personally i would get rid of barnes for top 3 pick this yr and get bancharo. a great gm would keep cycling picks to get the next mobley.

[Vampirate]

I agree, Mobley is pretty easy to project forwards at this point.

Green is going to be a scoring champion at some point probably.

Cade is gonna be an anchor for Detroit while hitting some clutch shot sin his career like Paul Pierce.

Suggs looks like a defensive specialist who needs to grow his offensive game.

Barnes is a complete mystery, his theoretical ceiling is in the stars but it's difficult to see what he can become because he was drafted so raw offensively but has made big strides even being a bad 3 point shooter still.

Some say Iggy, others say Scottie Pippen in terms of who they remind you of, maybe he goes lower than those 2, maybe higher.

Maybe he works hard enough to be the next Kawhi, or something else, or maybe he's just gonna be Draymond light?

I've always thought he was a mix of a Kawhi/Giannis personally although obviously he's nowhere close to those 2.

It'll be interesting to see moving forwards.

mobley is not a project hes a star in day 1. barnes has pippen potential but thats a big if his floor is draymond which is very good but more low usage role player. the downside of developing giannis is you need to tank and build around him. that starts by trading everyone except og and i have not seen any indication. masai is probably in agony. prospects are all abt team believing in you regardless of how good you are. you can draft a lebron and still bust if wolves/kings get him.
personally i would get rid of barnes for top 3 pick this yr and get bancharo. a great gm would keep cycling picks to get the next mobley.

I'd say Barnes is a more offensively gifted Pippen but nowhere as good on the defensive side of things.

Year 1 Barnes is smoking year 1 Pippen out of the water offensively thus far.

What Barnes is doing at 2 years of a younger age is similar what Pippen did in year 2 or 3, he's just straight out further along than Pippen was as a rookie and i'd probably take Barnes over Pippen year 2 offensively as well thus far.

Pippen was an even worse FT shooter than Barnes has shown to be and didn't really evolve into a playmaker until year 3.

I'd say overall offensively he's ahead of Year 2 Pippen but behind Year 3 Pippen through 20 games. If Barnes has a really good stretch of games he could be ahead of year 3 Pippen as well offensively.

[NRSV]

“I'd say Barnes is a more offensively gifted Pippen but nowhere as good on the defensive side of things.”

That’s like saying a player is a more defensively gifted Steph Curry but not even close as a shooter.

[HiRez]

Rookie Tracker through Nov. 27.

What stat is this sorted by?

They are sorted by EPM (Estimated Plus-Minus). This is the best advanced stat I've found that I have access to so far. The only one that may be slightly better is DARKO/DPM, but I haven't worked out how to pull that in a stable way yet.

Also note I've put limits on minutes (10+) and games (> 40% of max) so there are some rookies who don't show up until they reach those thresholds.

[basketballRob]

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DraftYear=2021

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[Vampirate]

“I'd say Barnes is a more offensively gifted Pippen but nowhere as good on the defensive side of things.”

That’s like saying a player is a more defensively gifted Steph Curry but not even close as a shooter.

Put this another way, I think Barnes can reach 25+ PPG on good-elite efficiency, while averaging 5-7 assists at some point in his career to go along with 8-10 rebounds.

Pippen capped out at 22PPG in his career. In the year without Michael he was a 21.4 PPG scorer.

Barnes has already shown to be a better scorer, rebounder and playmaker than Pippen has in his rookie year thus far.

His real peak potential (depending on handles and his jumpshot of course) is a Giannis/Kawhi hybrid.

I'm not saying he's going to reach that, but that's a possibility.

[thelead]

Kuminga: 38/8/62 (listed as a PF... but he's a combo SF/SG to me)

I'm taking some liberties with how I view Kuminga but otherwise, I find the splits interesting.

Just a quick note: Kuminga is a 4/5 like Draymond Green, and not a 2/3 at all.

Sure, which is why I said that I'm taking some liberties with how I view him. He's playing 4/5 in GS's system but he would not be playing the 5 on most other teams. There's just no way.

[QingJames]

Scottie's been given the green light to shoot from deep tonight and good things are happening. This dude just continues to impress with how easy he takes to the offensive end of the game.

[srhcan]

Regarding +- is Barnes the worst among rookies? I have seen big negative +- from him multiple times

[QingJames]

Regarding +- is Barnes the worst among rookies? I have seen big negative +- from him multiple times

lol no. Of ALL rookies it's Jalen Green with a shocking -13.8 at spot 49. Then Giddey with -7.6 at 48. Cade at 46 with -6. Suggs at 44 with -5. Wagner at 43 with -4.9. Barnes at 22 with -1.1.

+/- is a dumb stat.

[bisme37]

Great game by Barnes tonight. Celts have played the Raps 3 times already and Scottie has been impressive in all 3 games.

[XTC]

I don't think even the biggest Barnes fans expected 15/8/3 from Barnes after 19 games. The kid is the future for the Raptors, and the front runner for the ROY.

It's so hard to pin point a comparison because it really does seem he has bits of pieces of so many different players in his game. I would not be surprised if Barnes hits a stat line of 26/8/6/2 and becomes a future MVP contender. If you haven't seen the kid play, I really do encourage you to watch a Raptors game this season. Barnes is special.

[srhcan]

I don't think even the biggest Barnes fans expected 15/8/3 from Barnes after 19 games. The kid is the future for the Raptors, and the front runner for the ROY.

It's so hard to pin point a comparison because it really does seem he has bits of pieces of so many different players in his game. I would not be surprised if Barnes hits a stat line of 26/8/6/2 and becomes a future MVP contender. If you haven't seen the kid play, I really do encourage you to watch a Raptors game this season. Barnes is special.

He is not front runner for the ROY. Mobley is.

[DCasey91]

I don't think even the biggest Barnes fans expected 15/8/3 from Barnes after 19 games. The kid is the future for the Raptors, and the front runner for the ROY.

It's so hard to pin point a comparison because it really does seem he has bits of pieces of so many different players in his game. I would not be surprised if Barnes hits a stat line of 26/8/6/2 and becomes a future MVP contender. If you haven't seen the kid play, I really do encourage you to watch a Raptors game this season. Barnes is special.

Barnes is very good but is not the front runner at all. Mobley is head and shoulders above everyone literally and figuratively. He is a certain +500 player which I don’t think any of the rookies are.

The irony is that Barnes’s offensive capabilities have translated better then expected but his defensive capabilities has wavered. Still for sure second best no doubt but Mobley is an All NBA defender right now and the offensive stuff is a free bonus.

Watch Cavs will start winning again like before when he was out it was just a blip on the radar.

10-6 with
0-4 without including sitting out last q through injury

Averaged 18/8 and the Cavs went 5-1 when Marks/Sexton were out. Don’t want Marks to start stifling Mobley again.

And there isn’t much separation talent wise on both lists. Raps wing depth and quality beats out the Cavs.

Also Lamelo and Ben won the award averaging less ppg so I have no doubt Mobley will win by a decent margin at the end if all play enough games.

[NRSV]

Who can Barnes be expected to guard on a nightly basis? Perimeter guys seem to blow by him with relative ease. If your position is who you defend, he’s a 3-4 and I’m leaning towards 4. I know…positionless bball…but he seems like a liability the further he is from the rim.

[Bruin]

I don't think even the biggest Barnes fans expected 15/8/3 from Barnes after 19 games. The kid is the future for the Raptors, and the front runner for the ROY.

It's so hard to pin point a comparison because it really does seem he has bits of pieces of so many different players in his game. I would not be surprised if Barnes hits a stat line of 26/8/6/2 and becomes a future MVP contender. If you haven't seen the kid play, I really do encourage you to watch a Raptors game this season. Barnes is special.

He is not front runner for the ROY. Mobley is.

[LoveMyRaps]

ROTY Frontrunner Scottie Barnes with a 21p/7r/3a/2s/1b - Made 4 threes!!!

I remember those... "He can't shoot even if his life depended on it" comments pre-draft.