2021-22 Offseason Thread

[rarefind]

If I was an owner 175m over 7 years for Semien would be my ammunition in CBA talks.

[tempests_dawn]

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[tempests_dawn]

So, goodbye to Ray?

[polo007]

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[Cyrus]

It's interesting after the snail pace of the last 2 years of FA, that all the FA's are trying to sign before Dec 1st deadline. My guess is there is gonna to be some big changes to how FA works, and older/current FA's don't want to deal with the fallout, or maybe more lux tax?

[polo007]

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[Cyrus]

Leverage Vladdy & Bo. They make hitters around them better. Semien is not a huge loss for us. We need that 4th starter more.

He's not only a big loss based on his production, but it's all the off the field/Veteran stuff that was invaluable, that we are losing. Sad to see that side go. I don't think he can re-produce such an amazing year that he had this past year, but he can always reproduce what it is to be professional, and Vet. There was a reason, that basically the whole A's infield, and players in general, were heart broken when he left the A's last year, and it had very little to do with his production.

I hope whomever we get, will at the very least have similar off-field rep, we need a "leader" in the infield, and it's not Vlad/Bo/Biggio yet.

[polo007]

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[polo007]

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[guvernator]

I think our next SP is coming from Miami (for Kirk + extras).

[guvernator]

Leverage Vladdy & Bo. They make hitters around them better. Semien is not a huge loss for us. We need that 4th starter more.

He's not only a big loss based on his production, but it's all the off the field/Veteran stuff that was invaluable, that we are losing. Sad to see that side go. I don't think he can re-produce such an amazing year that he had this past year, but he can always reproduce what it is to be professional, and Vet. There was a reason, that basically the whole A's infield, and players in general, were heart broken when he left the A's last year, and it had very little to do with his production.

I hope whomever we get, will at the very least have similar off-field rep, we need a "leader" in the infield, and it's not Vlad/Bo/Biggio yet.

I really doubt that Semien came here to baby sit. This was Vlad/Bo's team from May onwards. Semien was a mercenary just passing through.

[Schad]

So, goodbye to Ray?

I'd imagine so. We'll have to see what Ray gets, but if he gets comparable money (as MLBTR projected), I'd rather have Gausman. Both major risks over that term, but with Gausman it's easy to explain what happened: he was a control pitcher who lacked an out pitch, and found an out pitch. With Ray, he was the wildest pitcher in baseball who suddenly had good control, if still not great command.

[polo007]

The Blue Jays buy Kevin Gausman and peace of mind for $110 million. Marcus Semien’s free-agent departure was inevitable | The Star

The Jays rotation currently projects to be Berríos, Gausman, Ryu, Alek Manoah and Ross Stripling. Nate Pearson, Anthony Kay, Trent Thornton and Thomas Hatch are among the depth options, and while the expectation is that the Jays will pursue another starter before the end of the off-season, it probably won’t be someone earning as much as Ray. A safer bet would be on the Jays acquiring another starter through trade or signing a free agent to a short-term contract.

While Ray’s status remains uncertain, one of his former teammates got some clarity on Sunday as Marcus Semien signed a seven-year deal worth $175 million with the Texas Rangers.

Semien’s departure is a big loss for the Jays, but one they had been expecting for quite some time. From the day Semien agreed to a one-year deal worth $18 million last off-season, it was evident neither party viewed this marriage of convenience as a long-term arrangement.

Anyone who expected Semien to sign for anything less than top dollar doesn’t know him very well. As a high-ranking member of the MLB Players’ Association executive committee, he takes the business side of the sport very seriously. The union encourages all of its members to sign with the highest bidder because it raises the bar for players who follow.

He was always going to pay it forward by falling in line.

Semien’s decision last month to hire agent Scott Boras supported that theory. Boras isn’t the guy players hire to work out a team-friendly deal. He’s the guy they send into the war room to extract as much money and term as possible. Sunday’s deal was mission accomplished on that front, with the $175 million well surpassing even the loftiest projections at the start of the off-season.

The reality for the Jays was this: If Semien didn’t accept a big discount to play for his hometown team in Oakland last winter, he was never going to take one to remain in Toronto, a city his children weren’t able to reside in last season because of the pandemic. That meant if the Jays wanted to keep him around they had to table the top offer, and in this kind of competitive market that was never going to happen either.

The Jays have a lot of money to spend this off-season as evidenced by the Gausman signing. They just want to prioritize the right positions to spend it on and that wasn’t going to be second base, at least not on a long-term deal when the Jays have infield prospects such as Orelvis Martinez and Jordan Groshans on the way. Instead, the top priority was starting pitching, and on Sunday they landed their guy.

While MLB is expected to go into a hiatus with the collective agreement set to expire Dec. 2, the Jays off-season is far from over. They need a replacement for Semien, a replacement for Steven Matz, another arm for the bullpen and possibly a left-handed hitter to complement their outfield. There’s a lot of work to do, but the front office will feel a lot better about itself going into the lockout knowing Gausman is under contract.

[Cyrus]

Leverage Vladdy & Bo. They make hitters around them better. Semien is not a huge loss for us. We need that 4th starter more.

He's not only a big loss based on his production, but it's all the off the field/Veteran stuff that was invaluable, that we are losing. Sad to see that side go. I don't think he can re-produce such an amazing year that he had this past year, but he can always reproduce what it is to be professional, and Vet. There was a reason, that basically the whole A's infield, and players in general, were heart broken when he left the A's last year, and it had very little to do with his production.

I hope whomever we get, will at the very least have similar off-field rep, we need a "leader" in the infield, and it's not Vlad/Bo/Biggio yet.

I really doubt that Semien came here to baby sit. This was Vlad/Bo's team from May onwards. Semien was a mercenary just passing through.

By all accounts that what he did, when Bo was struggling at the start of the year in the field, who you think Bo went to talk to, from a guy who also had similar experience early in his career.

[guvernator]

He's not only a big loss based on his production, but it's all the off the field/Veteran stuff that was invaluable, that we are losing. Sad to see that side go. I don't think he can re-produce such an amazing year that he had this past year, but he can always reproduce what it is to be professional, and Vet. There was a reason, that basically the whole A's infield, and players in general, were heart broken when he left the A's last year, and it had very little to do with his production.

I hope whomever we get, will at the very least have similar off-field rep, we need a "leader" in the infield, and it's not Vlad/Bo/Biggio yet.

I really doubt that Semien came here to baby sit. This was Vlad/Bo's team from May onwards. Semien was a mercenary just passing through.

By all accounts that what he did, when Bo was struggling at the start of the year in the field, who you think Bo went to talk to, from a guy who also had similar experience early in his career.

Coaches, His all star father. Semien is pretty down the list for advice taking.

[Cyrus]

So, goodbye to Ray?

I'd imagine so. We'll have to see what Ray gets, but if he gets comparable money (as MLBTR projected), I'd rather have Gausman. Both major risks over that term, but with Gausman it's easy to explain what happened: he was a control pitcher who lacked an out pitch, and found an out pitch. With Ray, he was the wildest pitcher in baseball who suddenly had good control, if still not great command.

He gone for sure, Ray is gonna get more (whether it was from us or another team) of 5 years and $110, at very least he's looking at 5 years/125 mll, maybe even longer term, since he's a bit younger, and just won a cy young, and Boras knows how to extract them dollars from some owner.

I think we'll be fine with just grabbing a 3rd round pick for Ray, I think one of the reasons why we were so hot after Gausman, he didn't have a comp pick assosicated with him.

I can see Ray signing with Angels, or maybe Dodgers ponies up after like losing Max / Kershaw or Giants after losing all their starting pitching.

[Cyrus]

I really doubt that Semien came here to baby sit. This was Vlad/Bo's team from May onwards. Semien was a mercenary just passing through.

By all accounts that what he did, when Bo was struggling at the start of the year in the field, who you think Bo went to talk to, from a guy who also had similar experience early in his career.

Coaches, His all star father. Semien is pretty down the list for advice taking.

Nah our coaches suck defensively, we don't got ron washington. His Allstar dad, was mainly known for a hitter and was terrible defensively in the outfield. If he is asking his dad for advice defensively, then I can see why he was constantly making errors lol.

When Tulo was with the Jays, Bichette said that was a big influence (Defensively) on him, not his pops... So yeah, Simien was probably first dude he was talking to get back on track.

Look all I'm saying is we are going to miss the little things that Semiem brought, and I'm not advocating signing to 7 years/175, probably we would have had to go more. Hopefully we can find a similar like infielder, that can bring some of those qualities, and it can't be an end of the bench type of guy, who rarely gets playing time. There is a reason why we signed springer to bring some of these qualities to the Outfield core, lets just hope he plays more than 70-80 games.

[polo007]

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[Lateral Quicks]

Re: Semien's deal, good for Semien. And good for the Blue Jays - I would not want to touch that deal.

I'm not sure about Yimi Garcia in the AL East given his career HR rate. But I do like the money is relatively light and there's a club option for the third year in case things work out.

I don't see Ray back now after Gausman signs. And that's for the best - very much expect a long-term deal for Ray to look awful in a couple years, if not sooner.

I think the next priorities include:
- A left-handed hitting veteran infielder to replace Semien and help balance the lineup (unless the plan is to give Biggio full playing time next year)
- Another rotation piece, likely through trade from our catching depth
- Further rotation and bullpen depth
- A left-handed hitting outfielder would be nice, but not a must

I like that both Garcia and Gausman reportedly had better deals on the table to sign elsewhere, but chose Toronto instead. That tells me the league sees the Blue Jays as a real contender over the next few years. It also tells me that the front office is likely telling agents/players that lots of money is available to spend - so there could very well be many more additions to come.