PG: tank world order treads along

[mdenny]

FVV got it bad man lol. My man is limping out there playing 40 minutes a game.

Mans is what Luol Deng was to Thibs.

Yep. Just look at our most recent games dating back to the B2B against the Celtics and Sixers.

Celtics: FVV had 16/3/6/3 and the team was -9 in 35.5 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were blown out because the team was -7 in 12.5 FVV bench minutes.

Sixers: FVV had 32/6/7 and the team was +14 in 40 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were -8 in 8 FVV bench minutes.

Pistons: FVV out and we lose by 6.

Blazers: FVV had 16/6/7 and the team was +6 in 40 minutes with FVV on the floor. We lose by 5 because the team was outscored by 11 in the 8 FVV bench minutes.

Jazz: FVV had 24/4/4/3/2 and the team was -7 in 34.5 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were blown out because the team was outscored by 9 in the 13.5 FVV bench minutes.

Kings: FVV had 13/3/6 but with 7 TOV, yet the team was +23 in 32 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were -4 in the 16 FVV bench minutes.

Warriors: FVV had 17/4/7 while neutralizing Curry, but the team was -13 in 39 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were -2 in the 9 FVV bench minutes.

Grizzlies: FVV had 23/6/7/2/2 and the team was +18 in 37 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were -5 in the 11 FVV bench minutes.

Pacers: FVV had 26/5/4 and the team was -7 in 38 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were blown out because the team was outscored by 10 in the 10 FVV bench minutes.

Celtics: FVV had 27/6/3 and the team was -2 in 40 minutes with FVV on the floor. We were -10 in the 8 FVV bench minutes.

With FVV on the floor, the team has a +3.0 NetRTG in 763 minutes while the team has a -13.3 NetRTG in 245 minutes with FVV on the bench. His impact was pretty similar last season too (+3.3 on / -5.2 off). This is why Nurse is playing FVV almost 40 minutes most nights. The team falls apart as soon as he steps off the floor. We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league and in an all-out tank war with the ~20-win Rockets and Magic without FVV this season. I don't know how so many people fail to see it. Or maybe they do see it and they'd rather just watch excruciatingly bad basketball for 48 minutes every other night in hopes of a high pick and developing talent in a losing culture.

A valiant effort my man lol.

Not gonna change the shared hallucination of this board.

One of the more hilarious sentiments: "it's clear that FVV is not in long term plans". It's clear you are hallucinating and living an alternate reality to the one that our coaching staff and FO percieves.

Fred is here to stay. Call the whambulance haters.

One thing i've cjanged my mind about this season....i no longer percieve fred as being close to his ceiling. He's going to continue to get better by continuing to think through the game. I thought that last year's fred was his apex and i was wrong.

If we ever lose fred.....it will be because his prime doesnt match our timeline. And his prime is still 3 to 5 years away so i doubt it.

[Morghulus]

Any chance they can shorten the season?

I’ve watched every game this season. I’m happy to be watching Raptors basketball; especially since the Griz got ripped away from me out west. The Raps were good, now they are not. I’m enjoying watching them play and while I scream and yell at the TV all the time, I appreciate having a team to watch.

I’d rather watch my team play losing basketball than not have a team or not watch basketball ball at all.

[fbalmeida]

Flynn still hasn't gotten laid.

Our defense showed up for stretches, but our offense was trash.

Svi couldn't hit the side of a barn for most of the game, and this bench really put the bull in terrible.

Fred and Barnes were still enough to make a game of it, when Siakam sat or played a tertiary role. Siakam was really painful to watch, especially in the 4th quarter. The only excuse he has left is that he's still recovering. Once that's gone, he's lunchmeat. There's no way he's going to find the mental fortitude to withstand the criticism he'll get.

THAT BONGA SIGHTING THOUGH!

Watch on YouTube

[God Squad]

Pascal used to be a perceived mismatch most nights. Not any more. Used to be great posting up. Not anymore. Used to out quick his defender. Not anymore.

Needs shooters and just more talent around him. But I'm not sure if even our full team healthy is good enough.

The FO is overrated, we have a roster too small AND can't shoot, it's a bad combination

So the FO is overrated even though they told you and every other Raptor fan it was going to be a development year? They never once came out and said we're aiming for a chip this season or even the play-in. IMO you need to re evaluate the ceiling of this team, especially since they've 100% let us know it's going to be a rough year.

[XTC]

I've been very vocal with FVV in the past... but he has proven me wrong... man...

His game is so skill based I could see him having Lowry type longevity. That and the fact how far his point guard skills have come. I know he's not there yet... but theres times when he's very reminiscent of Kyle Lowry on the floor.

Also his 3 point shot is BUTTER. The amount of confidence I have in a FVV 3 is astonishing

[XTC]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

[mdenny]

In reading the body language of the raptor players....it was clear to me that scottie was so disappointed in fred's oedipus complex. And also in siakam's disassociative identity disorder.

There are only 7 sins....but fred is guilty all of them. Gluttony (stocky build), jealousy (freezes out scottie while he sits idly in corner), i could go on all day....and here's the thing, i WILL go on all day because what i'm really doing here is venting the deep satisfaction that is missing from my life.

Not interested? TOO BAD! I am here to obsessively make post after post after post. Like a man who hasn't a blowjob for many a year.

[fbalmeida]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

I remember all of that... and this team is hard to watch. Simply because it's been 8 years of winning basketball, 5 years of Eastern Conference dominance, and one championship.

I've found it to be quite hard to readjust and I think it's fair to acknowledge that it is hard.

[God Squad]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

Honestly this right here. You can tell who's either too young, or just didn't watch much basketball back then. We were the literal laughing stocks in the league and Realgm. Every game against us was an easy W. Even if we managed to be up the whole game, you knew once the 4th quarter came we were gonna blow the lead in spectacular fashion.

So many bad era's in Raptors basketball and people are crying about 9-12 start lol.

[God Squad]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

I remember all of that... and this team is hard to watch. Simply because it's been 8 years of winning basketball, 5 years of Eastern Conference dominance, and one championship.

I've found it to be quite hard to readjust and I think it's fair to acknowledge that it is hard.

What did you think was going to happen once Kawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and Lowry left? Did you think FVV, OG and Pascal would be enough to overcome the total lack of talent? Honestly I want you're opinion, and I'm confused to why everyone's so surprised we're not as strong as the core that won us a Chip.

[mdenny]

William Lou's podcast after the game is profound.

Fred Vanvleet was the star of the game from both teams. Best two-way player on the court compared to 3 guys with max contracts. So sad this message board ( i don't say fanbase because it's specific to this message board) is so down on him. His value is sky high right now. One of the best contracts in the entire league.

Casual fans don't take note of the plays he made to change possession. There were 8 to 12. Like there is EVERY night. Plus he scored 27 points. Has anyone even mentioned that? What a disgrace.

[Klayforspicy]

Keep piling up the losses. Just FVV injury away from a lottery contention

[Son Goku 25]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

I remember all of that... and this team is hard to watch. Simply because it's been 8 years of winning basketball, 5 years of Eastern Conference dominance, and one championship.

I've found it to be quite hard to readjust and I think it's fair to acknowledge that it is hard.

Yeah, and it's not about the record it's about the style of play, selfishness which brings back Mike James vibes.

[Son Goku 25]

Really?? We were spoiled for 7 years, but man I can think of SO many more difficult to watch years than this.

Yea this team is decent to watch. To bad OG is out, but watching Barnes/OG is entertaining. FVV can be a struggle to watch at times, but whatever.

I think the problem is peoples expectations, I have no playoff expectations for the team, the losses are ok as long as the young guys develop. I'd hope they give more time to Banton/Flynn to see if they have anything.

I don't really care if the offense struggles, but this level of defensive ineptitude we haven't seen in a very long time.

This

[YogurtProducer]

In reading the body language of the raptor players....it was clear to me that scottie was so disappointed in fred's oedipus complex. And also in siakam's disassociative identity disorder.

There are only 7 sins....but fred is guilty all of them. Gluttony (stocky build), jealousy (freezes out scottie while he sits idly in corner), i could go on all day....and here's the thing, i WILL go on all day because what i'm really doing here is venting the deep satisfaction that is missing from my life.

Not interested? TOO BAD! I am here to obsessively make post after post after post. Like a man who hasn't a blowjob for many a year.

[djsunyc]

when you don't have 2 or 3 of your top 8 and surround pascal and fred with kids that need alot of work - that puts a huge amount of pressure on them to carry the offense. that's unfair to them b/c they aren't all world players that can do that. but too many folks here expect them to be.

[Indeed]

William Lou's podcast after the game is profound.

Fred Vanvleet was the star of the game from both teams. Best two-way player on the court compared to 3 guys with max contracts. So sad this message board ( i don't say fanbase because it's specific to this message board) is so down on him. His value is sky high right now. One of the best contracts in the entire league.

Casual fans don't take note of the plays he made to change possession. There were 8 to 12. Like there is EVERY night. Plus he scored 27 points. Has anyone even mentioned that? What a disgrace.

I think VanVleet was the best player, but the problem (from my perspective) is that, we try to integrate VanVleet as the point. He is great as a combo guard or SG (switch for iso and score against mis-match), but he failed to play the PnR (failed to connect with Achiuwa 3 out of 4).

We started Dragic for the reason that we missed someone to play the point and initiate from PnR. We are playing Trent as to expect VanVleet to develop that aspect, but so far it is a mixed result.

I just think that we got a good team, but we are trying to play many of our players out of their comfort zone. Siakam and Barnes at C are just not working (we now have Achiuwa/Birch at C, which is better as evidence).

[will]

Also you can really tell who became a fan in 2019

While we may suck, this team is quite enjoyable to watch. We're clearly rebuilding/retooling with a purpose. Anyone who finds this team hard to watch didn't have to endure:

1) The Kevin O'Neill era
2) First option Jalen Rose/Post Carter
3) The Jay Triano/Bargnani era
4) Pre-Vince Carter

I still remember starting the year 1-14 during the 05/06 season and how embarrassing it was to be a Raptors fan

The KO era was truly painful. Thankfully it did not last long.

Looking back, the first option Jalen Rose era was an absolute masterclass in post moves in the low block. Jalen had that on lockdown. No one could defend him.

[johanliebert]

William Lou's podcast after the game is profound.

Fred Vanvleet was the star of the game from both teams. Best two-way player on the court compared to 3 guys with max contracts. So sad this message board ( i don't say fanbase because it's specific to this message board) is so down on him. His value is sky high right now. One of the best contracts in the entire league.

Casual fans don't take note of the plays he made to change possession. There were 8 to 12. Like there is EVERY night. Plus he scored 27 points. Has anyone even mentioned that? What a disgrace.

I think VanVleet was the best player, but the problem (from my perspective) is that, we try to integrate VanVleet as the point. He is great as a combo guard or SG (switch for iso and score against mis-match), but he failed to play the PnR (failed to connect with Achiuwa 3 out of 4).

We started Dragic for the reason that we missed someone to play the point and initiate from PnR. We are playing Trent as to expect VanVleet to develop that aspect, but so far it is a mixed result.

I just think that we got a good team, but we are trying to play many of our players out of their comfort zone. Siakam and Barnes at C are just not working (we now have Achiuwa/Birch at C, which is better as evidence).

Dragic is a combo guard himself so I disagree there. As far as fred he’s a point guard in 2021, the term combo guard is also old terminology.

There’s no way y’all watch steph/dame and not realize they forever changed the position. Or Fred’s college games where he was a floor general yet state he’s not a pg.


Finding achiuwa isn’t an efficient shot regardless. This team lacks talent there’s no need to be overtly critical of the better players keep your sights on guys like Achiuwa/bonga/yuta who provided nothing.

[Indeed]

William Lou's podcast after the game is profound.

Fred Vanvleet was the star of the game from both teams. Best two-way player on the court compared to 3 guys with max contracts. So sad this message board ( i don't say fanbase because it's specific to this message board) is so down on him. His value is sky high right now. One of the best contracts in the entire league.

Casual fans don't take note of the plays he made to change possession. There were 8 to 12. Like there is EVERY night. Plus he scored 27 points. Has anyone even mentioned that? What a disgrace.

I think VanVleet was the best player, but the problem (from my perspective) is that, we try to integrate VanVleet as the point. He is great as a combo guard or SG (switch for iso and score against mis-match), but he failed to play the PnR (failed to connect with Achiuwa 3 out of 4).

We started Dragic for the reason that we missed someone to play the point and initiate from PnR. We are playing Trent as to expect VanVleet to develop that aspect, but so far it is a mixed result.

I just think that we got a good team, but we are trying to play many of our players out of their comfort zone. Siakam and Barnes at C are just not working (we now have Achiuwa/Birch at C, which is better as evidence).

Dragic is a combo guard himself so I disagree there. As far as fred he’s a point guard in 2021, the term combo guard is also old terminology.

There’s no way y’all watch steph/dame and not realize they forever changed the position. Or Fred’s college games where he was a floor general yet state he’s not a pg.


Finding achiuwa isn’t an efficient shot regardless. This team lacks talent there’s no need to be overtly critical of the better players keep your sights on guys like Achiuwa/bonga/yuta who provided nothing.

The small sample size of Dragic in PnR handler ranked 90th+ percentile, which is elite.
And I disagree he is a combo guard, he sets up a few players and initiate the PnR against Detroit. I think it is lack of exposure, and we are not playing him due to us developing players, not because he is not capable of.

As for VanVleet, he made some touch down passes to Siakam and others, but in half court, it was mostly Barnes who connects to Siakam or cutters. I think people have been critical on Siakam, but part of the problem is our point. Not we don't have Barnes who can play the point, it just we are not using it.

And you made a good point where Curry isn't playing point guard, it is Green who plays point forward.