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Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like

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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#461 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:24 pm

this is getting silly
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#462 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:30 pm

We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#463 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:34 pm

Capn'O wrote:We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.


yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#464 » by Jalen Bluntson » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:40 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:
So your excuse to play the kids is that we’re waving the white flag and admitting we can’t win etc?

Run that one by thibs . It’s a non starter and not realistic. Thibs will play lineup that gives the team the best chance to fulfill whatever his goal is.
Generally that will NEVER include playing rookies on a vet laden roster.



Thibs ain’t no tanking coach , even though he got us in treadmill mode . The kids ain’t gonna get us off That treadmill.


I didn't make an excuse. I stated facts. Kids don't learn how to win riding the bench on a losing team. Fuq Thibs. The kids won the last game we played. Even if they lose...WHILE PLAYING...then they learn. What did losing while sitting on the bench teach them? Nothing. We watched 3 years of kids riding the bench behind scrub vets. What experience did they get? They learned that they could have tried to help but weren't given the chance.

The direction of this team is stupid. No one is trading a star for Burks/Rose/Noel/Taj etc. They will want the kids...then what? We lose again with no youth or picks. Kemba/Fournier?

Competitive losing is not teaching anyone anything. Draft players and build a roster around them playing a backup role. Not a bench warmer role. Maybe use the D League to develop them? Maybe let them play real games because the limited practice they get during the season is useless. You don't try to win with players that aren't coming back next year. You don't sign a roster full of players that wouldn't be on a winning team and bury the kids. That's been proven.

Kemba is washed. Randle is over paid. None of this makes any sense. We can't keep doing the same failing process evey year and expect anything good to come of it.

Play the kids and live with the results.period


You make sense but you can’t easily transition from contending , to treadmill , to basically tanking all in the span of 20 games.

That’s the reality . We can put the kids in , build around them but the reality is they are closer to g-league than viable nba starter .
You can’t just say build around that like it’s the answer .


I wasn't trying to suggest that we blow it up now. That's not going to happen. I'm saying the team should have done this YEARS AGO. They keep bringing in too many vets who suck. Filling the roster and playing them the most minutes usually. It has gotten us nowhere. There is no trade that will fix it either. No one wants most of these guys. That's why we got them!! Now we are locked into this team for at least two years. For what? They aren't winning anything and they are wasting time and fuggin up the draft.

This team isn't a contender. What FA could they add next year? What trade would make them a contender? I don't see it. Nothing is impossible but...the treadmill is more likely to happen.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#465 » by Capn'O » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:43 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.


yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#466 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:48 pm

Capn'O wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.


yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Yea, that will probably not happen unless they just flip them around. They will be looking to upgrade.

There could be some upgrades on the roster already, or additions by subtractions but they may stick with the guys they brought in for now.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#467 » by dakomish23 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:55 pm

Gravy wrote:Nah.. Knox, Frank, Trier, Dotson, DSJ etc. all got plenty of minutes to see that they sucked. The only guy that was actually good was KP and he played until he got hurt.


Nah. 17-18 we did not. 18-19 we did & we got rewarded for it with the cornerstone of our future championship. 19-20 we did not.

When we do it right, things work out for us. When we don’t, it won’t
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#468 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:55 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Yea, that will probably not happen unless they just flip them around. They will be looking to upgrade.

There could be some upgrades on the roster already, or additions by subtractions but they may stick with the guys they brought in for now.


so does this mean we're gonna be buyers for better role players ? to what end exactly ? it's unlikely to be enough of an upgrade to push us into the 2nd round. wouldn't it make more sense to stack the extra picks for the supposed superstar trade they're dreaming of ? and if that doesn't work out at least you have a chance to get lucky in the draft again.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#469 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:01 pm

Capn'O wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.


yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Dolan is big on starphucking and guitar picks so I dunno
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#470 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:23 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Yea, that will probably not happen unless they just flip them around. They will be looking to upgrade.

There could be some upgrades on the roster already, or additions by subtractions but they may stick with the guys they brought in for now.


so does this mean we're gonna be buyers for better role players ? to what end exactly ? it's unlikely to be enough of an upgrade to push us into the 2nd round. wouldn't it make more sense to stack the extra picks for the supposed superstar trade they're dreaming of ? and if that doesn't work out at least you have a chance to get lucky in the draft again.


I think thats what management will want to do....get as many wins as possible and try to upgrade. Maybe something along the lines of the Rose deal last year. Is that what we should be doing? It really depends on the deal. I mean if we could get a future 1st for Burks I would probably do it but not sure what's on the table and dont think management is going in that direction anyway.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#471 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:35 pm

Dropping these little nuggets in here:

Randle on/Kemba on : 872 possessions = - 13.5 net rating
Randle on/Kemba off: 527 possessions = +8.7 net rating
Randle off/ Kemba on: only 17 possessions(!!!!) = -1.8 net rating
Randle + Fournier + RJ on/ Kemba off: 205 possessions - +23.0 Net Rating
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#472 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:42 pm

Capn'O wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We're not going to trade for picks. We're going to try to consolidate.


yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Agreed. There is no way to justify this front office, this head coach and this city to this owner and fanbase by resetting...again. But hey if folks want to keep believing that it'll happen then what can you do? They have one realistic path. And that's to figure out a way to get better, even if it doesn't push them over the top this season.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#473 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:46 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:Dropping these little nuggets in here:

Randle on/Kemba on : 872 possessions = - 13.5 net rating
Randle on/Kemba off: 527 possessions = +8.7 net rating
Randle off/ Kemba on: only 17 possessions(!!!!) = -1.8 net rating
Randle + Fournier + RJ on/ Kemba off: 205 possessions - +23.0 Net Rating


That's surprising but then again not surprising. Walker has looked like absolute crap on both ends of the floor. And he doesn't even look like he's trying. There's only so much you can excuse on not being physically peak. All we need to do is to shift the eyes to a little down the bench to find an example of another former all star player that isn't at his peak anymore that still goes out there and gives it his all. Obviously talking about Rose. Walker no longer having that explosiveness he had in his prime? Fine. But looking like he's just sleepwalking through games (that he actually feels like playing in)? That's not fine.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#474 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:47 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
yeah, yeah, yeah. sugarplum superstars dancing in their head and all that. trade em!!!!!


Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Agreed. There is no way to justify this front office, this head coach and this city to this owner and fanbase by resetting...again. But hey if folks want to keep believing that it'll happen then what can you do?


i don't believe anything good will happen
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#475 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:48 pm

The Knicks painted themselves into a corner by overselling the Kemba Is Home narrative.

This is what this franchise does under Dolan: sell stories to distract us from the fact that we're irrelevant. And then make basketball moves based on those narratives. It happened with Amar'e. It's happening now.

The best-run franchises don't care about all that.

The Knicks should probably wait a little bit before dumping Kemba since he has no trade value anyway, if only to soften the PR blow. But Leon Rose would be wise to move on from him by the deadline.

Kemba's attitude in the Boston game was not that of a competitive basketball player. As sham said, this feels like a retirement tour. Except he would never receive one if not for a franchise that is desperate and that routinely gets taken advantage of.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#476 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:49 pm

god shammgod wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Superstar is highly, highly unlikely. Upgrade... possible.


But we're damn sure not gonna trade for picks.


Agreed. There is no way to justify this front office, this head coach and this city to this owner and fanbase by resetting...again. But hey if folks want to keep believing that it'll happen then what can you do?


i don't believe anything good will happen


It may not. But all they can do is continue to try to figure out a way to get this team to take steps forward. If that's by trading for a superstar (unlikely) then that's that. But if it means making some minor trades to get this team fitting better and playing better then that's still better than just sitting on your hands watching the paint on the wall dry and hoping for a miracle that'll never happen.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#477 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:49 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks painted themselves into a corner by overselling the Kemba Is Home narrative.

This is what this franchise does under Dolan: sell stories to distract us from the fact that we're irrelevant. And then make basketball moves based on those narratives. It happened with Amar'e. It's happening now.

The best-run franchises don't care about all that.

The Knicks should probably wait a little bit before dumping Kemba since he has no trade value anyway, if only to soften the PR blow. But Leon Rose would be wise to move on from him by the deadline.

Kemba's attitude in the Boston game was not that of a competitive basketball player. As sham said, this feels like a retirement tour. Except he would never receive one if not for a franchise that is desperate and that routinely gets taken advantage of.


he just got taken out of the rotation by thibs. crazy.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#478 » by Gravy » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
Gravy wrote:Nah.. Knox, Frank, Trier, Dotson, DSJ etc. all got plenty of minutes to see that they sucked. The only guy that was actually good was KP and he played until he got hurt.


Nah. 17-18 we did not. 18-19 we did & we got rewarded for it with the cornerstone of our future championship. 19-20 we did not.

When we do it right, things work out for us. When we don’t, it won’t

2018 we could have drafted SGA.
2020 we drafted Obi who they wanted all along and is starting to show potential

The kids n vets minutes have nothing to do with the draft working out or not, its who we decide to pick.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#479 » by moocow007 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:52 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks painted themselves into a corner by overselling the Kemba Is Home narrative.

This is what this franchise does under Dolan: sell stories to distract us from the fact that we're irrelevant. And then make basketball moves based on those narratives. It happened with Amar'e. It's happening now.

The best-run franchises don't care about all that.

The Knicks should probably wait a little bit before dumping Kemba since he has no trade value anyway, if only to soften the PR blow. But Leon Rose would be wise to move on from him by the deadline.

Kemba's attitude in the Boston game was not that of a competitive basketball player. As sham said, this feels like a retirement tour. Except he would never receive one if not for a franchise that is desperate and that routinely gets taken advantage of.


he just got taken out of the rotation by thibs. crazy.


Was he? It was the 2nd game of a back-to-back and Walker sits out those. Question to me is whether it's the Knicks decision or Walkers decision.
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Re: Knicks - Hawks PG: This is what effort looks like 

Post#480 » by god shammgod » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:54 pm

moocow007 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks painted themselves into a corner by overselling the Kemba Is Home narrative.

This is what this franchise does under Dolan: sell stories to distract us from the fact that we're irrelevant. And then make basketball moves based on those narratives. It happened with Amar'e. It's happening now.

The best-run franchises don't care about all that.

The Knicks should probably wait a little bit before dumping Kemba since he has no trade value anyway, if only to soften the PR blow. But Leon Rose would be wise to move on from him by the deadline.

Kemba's attitude in the Boston game was not that of a competitive basketball player. As sham said, this feels like a retirement tour. Except he would never receive one if not for a franchise that is desperate and that routinely gets taken advantage of.


he just got taken out of the rotation by thibs. crazy.


Was he? It was the 2nd game of a back-to-back and Walker sits out those. Question to me is whether it's the Knicks decision or Walkers decision.


thibs announced it today. there's a thread.

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