Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[minimus]

Honestly, it is his natural position. What am I missing? Do you honestly believe he cannot guard a SF? He has been guarding them.

More worried about his offense.

As the fifth option why does that matter? I mean honestly, Ant, KAT, Dlo/Beverly, and Wood cannot score enough to let V8 keep doing exactly what he is currently doing at PF? Beverly is out at least 2 weeks, probably 3 or 4. I thought we needed to wait until the 15th but trade machine says it works today. Four weeks of Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT, Wood, Starting with Leo, Ant/Dlo, MCD, Reid, and Theis backup. That is size, defense, rebounding, and improved offense. I don’t know why people aren’t on board with this.

Correction: ESPN trade machine confirms December 15 for Theis. The other one threw me, but the 15th is still a week or two before Bev comes back.

Every time V8 is on the floor it makes easier for opponent in halfcourt to either double team KAT or put Vando's man in the paint to prevent Edwards from driving to the rim. Just watch our games vs LAC. Even a mediocre coach such as Rivers understood it during last game, he put Harris on KAT and Edwards could not score anything at rim, because Embiid was in the paint.

[winforlose]

More worried about his offense.

As the fifth option why does that matter? I mean honestly, Ant, KAT, Dlo/Beverly, and Wood cannot score enough to let V8 keep doing exactly what he is currently doing at PF? Beverly is out at least 2 weeks, probably 3 or 4. I thought we needed to wait until the 15th but trade machine says it works today. Four weeks of Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT, Wood, Starting with Leo, Ant/Dlo, MCD, Reid, and Theis backup. That is size, defense, rebounding, and improved offense. I don’t know why people aren’t on board with this.

Correction: ESPN trade machine confirms December 15 for Theis. The other one threw me, but the 15th is still a week or two before Bev comes back.

Every time V8 is on the floor it makes easier for opponent in halfcourt to either double team KAT or put Vando's man in the paint to prevent Edwards from driving to the rim. Just watch our games vs LAC. Even a mediocre coach such as Rivers understood it during last game, he put Harris on KAT and Edwards could not score anything at rim, because Embiid was in the paint.

Ok first, @Klomp, V8 has shown himself to be most effective either playing cutter, roll man on PNR, or coming from the outside in so he can board and put it back in. When he does go low post or dunker spots, he has mixed success as it is often tough to get it in to him. But, accepting your point at face value, with Wood and Towns both on the floor, it would be the opposing SF guarding V8 in the dunkers spot and Wood on the wing. The reason is that if the SF tries to guard Wood then Wood can shoot right over him or back him down and kick out to an open shooter when a big comes off to double.

@Minimus. Use your example of Embiid. Do you really think Embiid is going to guard V8 if Wood is on the floor? The whole point of my big ball scheme is that it forces bigs away from V8. That was when V8 cuts even if his man is in pursuit he is taller and longer. V8 is a SF with a PF arms and ups. I feel like you keep talking past my point instead of addressing it.

[Wolveswin]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

[winforlose]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

1, Indy hasn’t turned on the tank yet. They might feel with Warren back they can play for a play in spot. Most of what we have to offer is only viable in a rebuild and there is no way to know if they will rebuild.

2. My trade brings in two bigs instead of one. Imagine if both V8 and MCD miss tonight’s game. With your trade we would have 3 bigs and a ton of smalls. My way has 4 bigs and all we are missing are our SFs. Correction, we no longer have MCD at all and get smaller at SF.

3. Turner costs about as much as Wood, and Wood might actually be a better fit with his skills off the dribble. Turner might be a better defender, but we need more help on offense than defense at this point.

[Wolveswin]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

1, Indy hasn’t turned on the tank yet. They might feel with Warren back they can play for a play in spot. Most of what we have to offer is only viable in a rebuild and there is no way to know if they will rebuild.

2. My trade brings in two bigs instead of one. Imagine if both V8 and MCD miss tonight’s game. With your trade we would have 3 bigs and a ton of smalls. My way has 4 bigs and all we are missing are our SFs. Correction, we no longer have MCD at all and get smaller at SF.

3. Turner costs about as much as Wood, and Wood might actually be a better fit with his skills off the dribble. Turner might be a better defender, but we need more help on offense than defense at this point.

I think we need more help on D than O at this point. Funny two fans with different POV. I highly prefer Turner over Wood. Turner is use to being 3/4/5th fiddle. Taylor made for the role he would be asked to play on Wolves. Wood is the alpha on his current team. Scoring is his value. Would he really want to revert to 4th/5th fiddle as he was early in career? Not so sure. Not so sure why we would trade for a bird, clip his wings, and ask him to not showcase his #1 trait.

[winforlose]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

1, Indy hasn’t turned on the tank yet. They might feel with Warren back they can play for a play in spot. Most of what we have to offer is only viable in a rebuild and there is no way to know if they will rebuild.

2. My trade brings in two bigs instead of one. Imagine if both V8 and MCD miss tonight’s game. With your trade we would have 3 bigs and a ton of smalls. My way has 4 bigs and all we are missing are our SFs. Correction, we no longer have MCD at all and get smaller at SF.

3. Turner costs about as much as Wood, and Wood might actually be a better fit with his skills off the dribble. Turner might be a better defender, but we need more help on offense than defense at this point.

I think we need more help on D than O at this point. Funny two fans with different POV. I highly prefer Turner over Wood. Turner is use to being 3/4/5th fiddle. Taylor made for the role he would be asked to play on Wolves. Wood is the alpha on his current team. Scoring is his value. Would he really want to revert to 4th/5th fiddle as he was early in career? Not so sure. Not so sure why we would trade for a bird, clip his wings, and ask him to not showcase his #1 trait.

I respect your opinion (and I love that we can have this kind of discussion, it is shocking how rare it can be on other sites like this, without getting into mothers, and professions, and profane digressions,) I just disagree on a few points.

1. For the extra shot blocking that Turner provides Wood is a better defensive rebounder and rebounder overall. I also think Wood is a little better in a switching scheme (which is to a degree what we run (I know it is a bit different this year, but for the most part it is a switching scheme.) So I do think both men help the defense, just in different ways. But I will concede in pure classic defense Turner has the upper hand with shot blocking.

2. Turner and Wood have very similar offensive numbers. It’s kinda funny if you compare them on BB reference. But, Wood is better off the dribble and a better distance shooter. Wood or Turner both would play perimeter C to free the lane for Ant and Dlo. That extra creation offer the dribble is badly needed as we don’t have a lot of players who can create their own shot. Thus advantage Wood.

3. Where I very much disagree is the clipping wings comment. Not only would Wood love to play with a winning team and not always be doubled and the focus of the defense (something which is depressing his numbers since not playing with Wall this season,) but the increase in open shots will increase his numbers. Embiid having Seth curry emerge didn’t hurt his numbers. Likewise having Beasley re-emerge wouldn’t hurt Dlo’s numbers or Ant’s numbers in the grand scheme. Wood would have a chance to play meaningful basketball, add to his national attention and get plenty of opportunities to still lead dog. For example what if you play Wood and Ant with Reid, Beverly, and MCD. Wood is now number 1 or 2 just like he was with Wall and he has competent teammates to pass to for assists. In the end we want him for his offensive potential and he would still get plenty of touches and opportunities with less difficult shots and defensive schemes depressing his numbers.

Oh almost forgot. Houston is 2-16 and basically tanking. Indy would want a fortune for their starting C (we cannot replace him,) are not tanking, and have much less incentive to trade him.

[BlacJacMac]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

Except rebounding.

[minimus]

As the fifth option why does that matter? I mean honestly, Ant, KAT, Dlo/Beverly, and Wood cannot score enough to let V8 keep doing exactly what he is currently doing at PF? Beverly is out at least 2 weeks, probably 3 or 4. I thought we needed to wait until the 15th but trade machine says it works today. Four weeks of Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT, Wood, Starting with Leo, Ant/Dlo, MCD, Reid, and Theis backup. That is size, defense, rebounding, and improved offense. I don’t know why people aren’t on board with this.

Correction: ESPN trade machine confirms December 15 for Theis. The other one threw me, but the 15th is still a week or two before Bev comes back.

Every time V8 is on the floor it makes easier for opponent in halfcourt to either double team KAT or put Vando's man in the paint to prevent Edwards from driving to the rim. Just watch our games vs LAC. Even a mediocre coach such as Rivers understood it during last game, he put Harris on KAT and Edwards could not score anything at rim, because Embiid was in the paint.

Ok first, @Klomp, V8 has shown himself to be most effective either playing cutter, roll man on PNR, or coming from the outside in so he can board and put it back in. When he does go low post or dunker spots, he has mixed success as it is often tough to get it in to him. But, accepting your point at face value, with Wood and Towns both on the floor, it would be the opposing SF guarding V8 in the dunkers spot and Wood on the wing. The reason is that if the SF tries to guard Wood then Wood can shoot right over him or back him down and kick out to an open shooter when a big comes off to double.

@Minimus. Use your example of Embiid. Do you really think Embiid is going to guard V8 if Wood is on the floor? The whole point of my big ball scheme is that it forces bigs away from V8. That was when V8 cuts even if his man is in pursuit he is taller and longer. V8 is a SF with a PF arms and ups. I feel like you keep talking past my point instead of addressing it.

It does not matter how you are going to hide V8 in your theoretical big ball scheme. With him we basically play four against five, because he can't shoot and is not good at catching the ball nor finishing at rim. If our opponent have a good coach they will use V8 man in defense to either double team or pack the paint. Go and watch our tactic against Embiid during last minutes. We executed double team every time when non shooting Thybulle was on the floor. It means that we used a wing player who defended Thybulle, as a huge advantage for us.

The only realistic way to make V8 a full starter is to develop his passing skills: short roll passer, facilitator etc.

[winforlose]

Every time V8 is on the floor it makes easier for opponent in halfcourt to either double team KAT or put Vando's man in the paint to prevent Edwards from driving to the rim. Just watch our games vs LAC. Even a mediocre coach such as Rivers understood it during last game, he put Harris on KAT and Edwards could not score anything at rim, because Embiid was in the paint.

Ok first, @Klomp, V8 has shown himself to be most effective either playing cutter, roll man on PNR, or coming from the outside in so he can board and put it back in. When he does go low post or dunker spots, he has mixed success as it is often tough to get it in to him. But, accepting your point at face value, with Wood and Towns both on the floor, it would be the opposing SF guarding V8 in the dunkers spot and Wood on the wing. The reason is that if the SF tries to guard Wood then Wood can shoot right over him or back him down and kick out to an open shooter when a big comes off to double.

@Minimus. Use your example of Embiid. Do you really think Embiid is going to guard V8 if Wood is on the floor? The whole point of my big ball scheme is that it forces bigs away from V8. That was when V8 cuts even if his man is in pursuit he is taller and longer. V8 is a SF with a PF arms and ups. I feel like you keep talking past my point instead of addressing it.

It does not matter how you are going to hide V8 in your theoretical big ball scheme. With him we basically play four against five, because he can't shoot and is not good at catching the ball nor finishing at rim. If our opponent have a good coach they will use V8 man in defense to either double team or pack the paint. Go and watch our tactic against Embiid during last minutes. We executed double team every time when non shooting Thybulle was on the floor. It means that we used a wing player who defended Thybulle, as a huge advantage for us.

The only realistic way to make V8 a full starter is to develop his passing skills: short roll passer, facilitator etc.

I hear you. But, what you are missing in the equation is that even if my idea fails and V8 leaves the starting lineup you still have Wood to fill in the rebounding gap and have Beverly, Dlo, Ant, KAT, and Wood as our starting five. Now you have V8 and MCD playing together in the second line with their length and defensive prowess. You have the option of going super big playing MCD at the 2 and V8 at the 3 with Reid and Theis at the 4/5 and add someone like Ant or Dlo to facilitate and create. No matter how it shakes it out it gives us options and opportunities in addition to depth.

[Wolveswin]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

Except rebounding.

Turner doesn’t rebound (statistically) because he can’t. He is 6-11 250, athletic and has a decent motor. He plays in a two big system. Sabonis averages over 11 rebounds. With another big gobbling up boards, his numbers don’t jump off the page. I venture to bet he would push double digit rebounds on Wolves roster, next to Towns, with his natural abilities.

[Wolveswin]

1, Indy hasn’t turned on the tank yet. They might feel with Warren back they can play for a play in spot. Most of what we have to offer is only viable in a rebuild and there is no way to know if they will rebuild.

2. My trade brings in two bigs instead of one. Imagine if both V8 and MCD miss tonight’s game. With your trade we would have 3 bigs and a ton of smalls. My way has 4 bigs and all we are missing are our SFs. Correction, we no longer have MCD at all and get smaller at SF.

3. Turner costs about as much as Wood, and Wood might actually be a better fit with his skills off the dribble. Turner might be a better defender, but we need more help on offense than defense at this point.

I think we need more help on D than O at this point. Funny two fans with different POV. I highly prefer Turner over Wood. Turner is use to being 3/4/5th fiddle. Taylor made for the role he would be asked to play on Wolves. Wood is the alpha on his current team. Scoring is his value. Would he really want to revert to 4th/5th fiddle as he was early in career? Not so sure. Not so sure why we would trade for a bird, clip his wings, and ask him to not showcase his #1 trait.

I respect your opinion (and I love that we can have this kind of discussion, it is shocking how rare it can be on other sites like this, without getting into mothers, and professions, and profane digressions,) I just disagree on a few points.

1. For the extra shot blocking that Turner provides Wood is a better defensive rebounder and rebounder overall. I also think Wood is a little better in a switching scheme (which is to a degree what we run (I know it is a bit different this year, but for the most part it is a switching scheme.) So I do think both men help the defense, just in different ways. But I will concede in pure classic defense Turner has the upper hand with shot blocking.

2. Turner and Wood have very similar offensive numbers. It’s kinda funny if you compare them on BB reference. But, Wood is better off the dribble and a better distance shooter. Wood or Turner both would play perimeter C to free the lane for Ant and Dlo. That extra creation offer the dribble is badly needed as we don’t have a lot of players who can create their own shot. Thus advantage Wood.

3. Where I very much disagree is the clipping wings comment. Not only would Wood love to play with a winning team and not always be doubled and the focus of the defense (something which is depressing his numbers since not playing with Wall this season,) but the increase in open shots will increase his numbers. Embiid having Seth curry emerge didn’t hurt his numbers. Likewise having Beasley re-emerge wouldn’t hurt Dlo’s numbers or Ant’s numbers in the grand scheme. Wood would have a chance to play meaningful basketball, add to his national attention and get plenty of opportunities to still lead dog. For example what if you play Wood and Ant with Reid, Beverly, and MCD. Wood is now number 1 or 2 just like he was with Wall and he has competent teammates to pass to for assists. In the end we want him for his offensive potential and he would still get plenty of touches and opportunities with less difficult shots and defensive schemes depressing his numbers.

Oh almost forgot. Houston is 2-16 and basically tanking. Indy would want a fortune for their starting C (we cannot replace him,) are not tanking, and have much less incentive to trade him.

Trading for Tuner is assuming they are tank’ish by deadline. Pacers don’t tear down rebuild. Getting an expiring vet, upside sophomore, and picks — all to reshuffle and reload around not pairing Turner and Sabonis yet again (trying something new).

Rebounding, I responded to in above post.

[winforlose]

I think we need more help on D than O at this point. Funny two fans with different POV. I highly prefer Turner over Wood. Turner is use to being 3/4/5th fiddle. Taylor made for the role he would be asked to play on Wolves. Wood is the alpha on his current team. Scoring is his value. Would he really want to revert to 4th/5th fiddle as he was early in career? Not so sure. Not so sure why we would trade for a bird, clip his wings, and ask him to not showcase his #1 trait.

I respect your opinion (and I love that we can have this kind of discussion, it is shocking how rare it can be on other sites like this, without getting into mothers, and professions, and profane digressions,) I just disagree on a few points.

1. For the extra shot blocking that Turner provides Wood is a better defensive rebounder and rebounder overall. I also think Wood is a little better in a switching scheme (which is to a degree what we run (I know it is a bit different this year, but for the most part it is a switching scheme.) So I do think both men help the defense, just in different ways. But I will concede in pure classic defense Turner has the upper hand with shot blocking.

2. Turner and Wood have very similar offensive numbers. It’s kinda funny if you compare them on BB reference. But, Wood is better off the dribble and a better distance shooter. Wood or Turner both would play perimeter C to free the lane for Ant and Dlo. That extra creation offer the dribble is badly needed as we don’t have a lot of players who can create their own shot. Thus advantage Wood.

3. Where I very much disagree is the clipping wings comment. Not only would Wood love to play with a winning team and not always be doubled and the focus of the defense (something which is depressing his numbers since not playing with Wall this season,) but the increase in open shots will increase his numbers. Embiid having Seth curry emerge didn’t hurt his numbers. Likewise having Beasley re-emerge wouldn’t hurt Dlo’s numbers or Ant’s numbers in the grand scheme. Wood would have a chance to play meaningful basketball, add to his national attention and get plenty of opportunities to still lead dog. For example what if you play Wood and Ant with Reid, Beverly, and MCD. Wood is now number 1 or 2 just like he was with Wall and he has competent teammates to pass to for assists. In the end we want him for his offensive potential and he would still get plenty of touches and opportunities with less difficult shots and defensive schemes depressing his numbers.

Oh almost forgot. Houston is 2-16 and basically tanking. Indy would want a fortune for their starting C (we cannot replace him,) are not tanking, and have much less incentive to trade him.

Trading for Tuner is assuming they are tank’ish by deadline. Pacers don’t tear down rebuild. Getting an expiring vet, upside sophomore, and picks — all to reshuffle and reload around not pairing Turner and Sabonis yet again (trying something new).

Rebounding, I responded to in above post.

The big difference is that Turner will be more expensive and will probably cost us two firsts and players. Wood and Theis are available on the 15th (that’s a lot of games of having them and getting them integrated into our systems,) and with less competition given the time of year. Plus your way sends MCD and mine keeps him. I see him as more valuable than a first.

[Wolveswin]

I respect your opinion (and I love that we can have this kind of discussion, it is shocking how rare it can be on other sites like this, without getting into mothers, and professions, and profane digressions,) I just disagree on a few points.

1. For the extra shot blocking that Turner provides Wood is a better defensive rebounder and rebounder overall. I also think Wood is a little better in a switching scheme (which is to a degree what we run (I know it is a bit different this year, but for the most part it is a switching scheme.) So I do think both men help the defense, just in different ways. But I will concede in pure classic defense Turner has the upper hand with shot blocking.

2. Turner and Wood have very similar offensive numbers. It’s kinda funny if you compare them on BB reference. But, Wood is better off the dribble and a better distance shooter. Wood or Turner both would play perimeter C to free the lane for Ant and Dlo. That extra creation offer the dribble is badly needed as we don’t have a lot of players who can create their own shot. Thus advantage Wood.

3. Where I very much disagree is the clipping wings comment. Not only would Wood love to play with a winning team and not always be doubled and the focus of the defense (something which is depressing his numbers since not playing with Wall this season,) but the increase in open shots will increase his numbers. Embiid having Seth curry emerge didn’t hurt his numbers. Likewise having Beasley re-emerge wouldn’t hurt Dlo’s numbers or Ant’s numbers in the grand scheme. Wood would have a chance to play meaningful basketball, add to his national attention and get plenty of opportunities to still lead dog. For example what if you play Wood and Ant with Reid, Beverly, and MCD. Wood is now number 1 or 2 just like he was with Wall and he has competent teammates to pass to for assists. In the end we want him for his offensive potential and he would still get plenty of touches and opportunities with less difficult shots and defensive schemes depressing his numbers.

Oh almost forgot. Houston is 2-16 and basically tanking. Indy would want a fortune for their starting C (we cannot replace him,) are not tanking, and have much less incentive to trade him.

Trading for Tuner is assuming they are tank’ish by deadline. Pacers don’t tear down rebuild. Getting an expiring vet, upside sophomore, and picks — all to reshuffle and reload around not pairing Turner and Sabonis yet again (trying something new).

Rebounding, I responded to in above post.

The big difference is that Turner will be more expensive and will probably cost us two firsts and players. Wood and Theis are available on the 15th (that’s a lot of games of having them and getting them integrated into our systems,) and with less competition given the time of year. Plus your way sends MCD and mine keeps him. I see him as more valuable than a first.

Wolves should not be trading future 1sts until the deadline. They need as much runway possible to see where they sit.

Wood and Turner are going to have similar value. The difference you keep bringing up is personal taste. Be cause it will take similar assets in the end. More so if Woods + Theis.

[Baseline81]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

Must be difficult to post a trade not including Edwards or Towns...

[Wolveswin]

Some of the names mentioned here seem like moving deck chairs. Just trading to trade.

Go all in on Turner. He solves everything Wolves need AND has the skills to take Wolves to another level.

Turner
Towns
Edwards
Beasley
Beverley
Russell as super 6th (if his ego needs to start, do so but yank him quick).

What will Pacers price be? Not sure. Something around McDaniels + Prince + 2022 1st (very lightly protected) + more?

Must be difficult to post a trade not including Edwards or Towns...

It really wasn’t. Thanks for being a follower and a fan.

[_AIJ_]

Thoughts on bringing James Johnson back?

[winforlose]

Thoughts on bringing James Johnson back?

I might trade a 2nd for him and let the exemption bring him in. Not sure I would play much for him.

[Klomp]

Thoughts on bringing James Johnson back?

If it doesn't cost much to get him from Brooklyn this is the type of understated move I love....akin to the Beverley trade.

[shangrila]

I wouldn't give up anything for him. He's having one of the worst seasons of his career at 34, so he's not helping us on the court. And while I like the idea of vet mentors I think they have to actually be useful contributors to fill that role, not cheerleaders.

[winforlose]

So Blake Griffin just got pulled from the Net’s rotation. He is having a Bad season (capital B) and all his numbers are down. That said, he is cheap, we could get him with our trade exemption, and we could use some size depth. Nets are super high in Lux, would he be worth a second?

P.S I haven’t seen him play, and I would love to hear from someone who has.