Man on Fire!! Jonas Valanciunas with 29 points and 7 of 7 from 3 at the half.

[bbalnation]

We made him gain too much weight early on in his career so he could be a dominant low post big. But just as we were doing that the three point revolution happened. And Casey would always use him as garbage man to clean up the boards instead of running plays for him.

The BC days man. He was always fantastic at recognizing talent, him and his collar. It was just what he did afterwards that was questionable. In this case, it impacted JV's medium and long term health, and career.

The extra weight gain caused a lot of strain, and he got injured a lot because of it. He was really mobile when he was drafted, but the organization (led by Bryan Colangelo in 2011) wanted him to be like Roy Hibbert, thus the weight gain.

It makes me happy to see how much he's been able to adjust his game to the modern NBA. His bodys still a lil slower but damn, he's an automatic bucket. Hes also so intentionally awkward on camera at times you can't help but laugh.

Wut.... Jonas was drafted in 2011 sure but he didn't play here his first year, not till 12-13 and he was still a skinny rookie. Then BC was fired.

This is for sure on Casey.

June 26, 2013 was BC's last day with the Raptors.

Not sure why you'd try to change up the dates? Val played for two years with BC at the healm, so Jonas' weight gain would have already began.

That type of decision is not one that is made from a head coaching perspective. A GM drafts based off potential and whats there. BC saw what he saw in Jonas, and they worked with the medical/health staff to get his body to the shape hes in, like they would any NBA player. Not sure what that has to do with Casey.

Casey is involved and included as part of it, sure, as a contributor, just like other coaches. Or just like other head coaches in organizations. We have people blaming David Griffin for Zions weight gain moreso than his head coaches, as an example (different situation, different context: similar parallels).

In Vals case, once he gained significant weight, its hard to regain the same type of agility. So even after BC was let go and they were to adjust (and they tried to lose weight for a couple years), its more difficult for the body to respond (speculation, opinion based off what ive read, seen and learned).

[links135]

The BC days man. He was always fantastic at recognizing talent, him and his collar. It was just what he did afterwards that was questionable. In this case, it impacted JV's medium and long term health, and career.

The extra weight gain caused a lot of strain, and he got injured a lot because of it. He was really mobile when he was drafted, but the organization (led by Bryan Colangelo in 2011) wanted him to be like Roy Hibbert, thus the weight gain.

It makes me happy to see how much he's been able to adjust his game to the modern NBA. His bodys still a lil slower but damn, he's an automatic bucket. Hes also so intentionally awkward on camera at times you can't help but laugh.

Wut.... Jonas was drafted in 2011 sure but he didn't play here his first year, not till 12-13 and he was still a skinny rookie. Then BC was fired.

This is for sure on Casey.

June 26, 2013 was BC's last day with the Raptors.

Not sure why you'd try to change up the dates? Val played for two years with BC at the healm, so Jonas' weight gain would have already began.

That type of decision is not one that is made from a head coaching perspective. A GM drafts based off potential and whats there. BC saw what he saw in Jonas, and they worked with the medical/health staff to get his body to the shape hes in, like they would any NBA player. Not sure what that has to do with Casey.

That was his rookie year. Literally his rookie year, if you look up JV in his rookie year you'll notice he was still pretty damn skinny. He was actually let go of as GM in May. He was still a president till June, Masai signed that May 31st.

Masai did the freaking Bargnani trade in June.

And I honestly doubt Masai in his first month would be dictating JV to gain a crap load of weight, whereas Casey is on record for saying they wanted him to go the Hibbert route, which would make sense in 2004.

Again, JV was drafted in 2011, sat out 11-12 season playing his final season in Lithuania, then had his rookie year here in 12-13, Colangelo was fired the end of that year, then he bulked up that summer.

So to say that was under BC's direction would be stretching it.

[bbalnation]

Wut.... Jonas was drafted in 2011 sure but he didn't play here his first year, not till 12-13 and he was still a skinny rookie. Then BC was fired.

This is for sure on Casey.

June 26, 2013 was BC's last day with the Raptors.

Not sure why you'd try to change up the dates? Val played for two years with BC at the healm, so Jonas' weight gain would have already began.

That type of decision is not one that is made from a head coaching perspective. A GM drafts based off potential and whats there. BC saw what he saw in Jonas, and they worked with the medical/health staff to get his body to the shape hes in, like they would any NBA player. Not sure what that has to do with Casey.

That was his rookie year. Literally his rookie year, if you look up JV in his rookie year you'll notice he was still pretty damn skinny. He was actually let go of as GM in May. He was still a president till June, Masai signed that May 31st.

Masai did the freaking Bargnani trade in June.

And I honestly doubt Masai in his first month would be dictating JV to gain a crap load of weight, whereas Casey is on record for saying they wanted him to go the Hibbert route, which would make sense in 2004.

Again, JV was drafted in 2011, sat out 11-12 season playing his final season in Lithuania, then had his rookie year here in 12-13, Colangelo was fired the end of that year, then he bulked up that summer.

So to say that was under BC's direction would be stretching it.

Oh yeeeaaa I forgot about that year to get ready in Lithuania. I take back the certainty in claiming it was BC, but im still not 100% its Casey even if its him saying it (at the time). Organizations are sometimes messier than that. I guess that's something I'd be curious to ask someone on the inside.

In any case: sorry for the accidental misinformation and claiming that you were providing false dates, and questioning your credibility through that.

[nikster]

Fair enough, also fair to say he wasn't developed properly there. It's the same thing happening with Boucher.

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That was on Dwayne Casey, he hated JV, JV would be playing amazing and he would be inexplicably benched. As flawed as Stewart is, his development will probably take a hit because of Casey, just like JV did. But as others have said, to get Gasol, we needed to give up something, and Gasol's team and man defense was a billion times better than JVs, the difference was immediate. As good as JVs offense is, he will never reach Gasol's level of defense. I had actually hoped JV would come back and Gasol teach him how to be an anchor on D. Happy for JV though, will always be a Raptor for me, he even attended the championship run games after he was traded.

Why is Casey still the scapegoat for JV? I see raptor fans are back singing jv's praises..same fanbase that called him the next Tim Duncan. Nick Nurse actually limited JV even further than Casey due to his limitations that we all know of.

The Gasol trade had zilch to do with your reasoning the team just needed a legit defensive anchor and found one. Any other player the analysis would be how the game has moved on from bigs but here we blame a coach lol. Nba coverage is the worst.

Yeah Nurse had the man playing 18 minutes a game. Its not like his stats or game really changed when he left either, per possessions he has been pretty similar to his last few years (tho this game brought up his averages)

[LuDux1]

That was on Dwayne Casey, he hated JV, JV would be playing amazing and he would be inexplicably benched. As flawed as Stewart is, his development will probably take a hit because of Casey, just like JV did. But as others have said, to get Gasol, we needed to give up something, and Gasol's team and man defense was a billion times better than JVs, the difference was immediate. As good as JVs offense is, he will never reach Gasol's level of defense. I had actually hoped JV would come back and Gasol teach him how to be an anchor on D. Happy for JV though, will always be a Raptor for me, he even attended the championship run games after he was traded.

Why is Casey still the scapegoat for JV? I see raptor fans are back singing jv's praises..same fanbase that called him the next Tim Duncan. Nick Nurse actually limited JV even further than Casey due to his limitations that we all know of.

The Gasol trade had zilch to do with your reasoning the team just needed a legit defensive anchor and found one. Any other player the analysis would be how the game has moved on from bigs but here we blame a coach lol. Nba coverage is the worst.

Yeah Nurse had the man playing 18 minutes a game. Its not like his stats or game really changed when he left either, per possessions he has been pretty similar to his last few years (tho this game brought up his averages)

Best season under Cassey: 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes
30 games under Nurse: 12.8 ppg in 19 minutes

[nikster]

Why is Casey still the scapegoat for JV? I see raptor fans are back singing jv's praises..same fanbase that called him the next Tim Duncan. Nick Nurse actually limited JV even further than Casey due to his limitations that we all know of.

The Gasol trade had zilch to do with your reasoning the team just needed a legit defensive anchor and found one. Any other player the analysis would be how the game has moved on from bigs but here we blame a coach lol. Nba coverage is the worst.

Yeah Nurse had the man playing 18 minutes a game. Its not like his stats or game really changed when he left either, per possessions he has been pretty similar to his last few years (tho this game brought up his averages)

Best season under Cassey: 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes
30 games under Nurse: 12.8 ppg in 19 minutes

So? Sure he utilized him effectively but 19 minutes a game suggests Nurse didnt think he could keep him out there longer

[RaptorPride]

Regular season.

Come playoff time he is basically unplayable against the Curry's or Lillards of the world because of his awful pick roll defense.

90% of starting centers are unplayable against the Curry's or Lillards of the world in playoff.
You still can win a series or two without playing Curry/Lillard and you even have to get to that playoffs in the place. So among these 90% starting centers who might be exposed by Curry/Lillard, Val is still one of the top choices for quite some time already.

I disagree completely and have 2 front offices to back me up on my point.

Raps bench him because of it.

Grizz let him go because the Jazz destroy him in the playoffs defensively.

We also never had any real defensive players to play with JV. Lowry was like the only good defender we ever had. DeMar would get blown by alot and JV would have to cover. Just multiple bad defenders made things seem worse.

But on offence, he was the most consistent player for the Raptors all those years.

It's insane to me how 7 footer can develop his 3 pt range to actually become a decent 3pt shooter during the games but someone like Ben Simmons can't freaking learn how to shoot wide open free throws at respectable %.

JV was pretty much an 80% free throw shooter since entering the league at 19. Has always had a midrange game and a soft touch around the rim. JV was never a bad shooter. He just built on his already great shooting.

[RaptorPride]

Yeah Nurse had the man playing 18 minutes a game. Its not like his stats or game really changed when he left either, per possessions he has been pretty similar to his last few years (tho this game brought up his averages)

Best season under Cassey: 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes
30 games under Nurse: 12.8 ppg in 19 minutes

So? Sure he utilized him effectively but 19 minutes a game suggests Nurse didnt think he could keep him out there longer

Nurse is all about defence. Especially switching and having players run around a lot. JV is just not the player who you would want to do that. We also had to convince Ibaka and JV to take turns coming off the bench since starting both JV and Ibaka didn't work. Nurse started whoever based on matchups. They kinda both split minutes at centre. JV used to get gassed pretty fast playing Nurse style defence.

[links135]

Best season under Cassey: 12.7 ppg in 26 minutes
30 games under Nurse: 12.8 ppg in 19 minutes

So? Sure he utilized him effectively but 19 minutes a game suggests Nurse didnt think he could keep him out there longer

Nurse is all about defence. Especially switching and having players run around a lot. JV is just not the player who you would want to do that. We also had to convince Ibaka and JV to take turns coming off the bench since starting both JV and Ibaka didn't work. Nurse started whoever based on matchups. They kinda both split minutes at centre. JV used to get gassed pretty fast playing Nurse style defence.

Well at that point we had Kawhi + Siakam starting, plus Lowry. our offence was doing pretty darn good.

Before it was largely Derozan + Lowry. It's not like Gasol lit it up here that year either, and they did the right thing. If you're not going to heavily involve him, trade him for a complimentary piece.

It was pretty maddening watching Derozan take 30 shots a game going 7-30 and watching JV only being able to get shots off of cleaning up the glass.

Oddly enough his best per 36 scoring was 18-19 when he got traded. 24.5 in Toronto and 25.9 in Memphis.

All I can think is that last Washington series in the first round we had, normally JV would sit out the entire 4th. Casey FINALLY put him in, in the 4th when we were down 4 in game 5 with 8 minutes left, turned the whole game around and we won by 10.

His pick setting caused huge issues for the Wizards plus his rebounding really helped, in fact they only scored a total of 17 points in the 4th when JV played, when they just beat us 2 in a row where he sat the entire 4th (only 15 total minutes in a game 4 loss).

Meanwhile Casey would play freaking Jakob Poeltl.

Hell I remember one game against the Cavs JV had like 19 in the first half, 3 shots all 2nd half. Then again we had Powell and Patrick Patterson as our 3-4.

Anyways, it's nice to see him getting more than 8 shots a game regardless who's coaching him.