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Enough is Enough vogel has got to go.

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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#201 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm

I hope and pray that they beat the Pacers tonight because if they lose, It's a possibility that they will just leave Frank there in Indiana. :-?
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#202 » by euphorbus » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:14 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:I hope and pray that they beat the Pacers tonight because if they lose, It's a possibility that they will just leave Frank there in Indiana. :-?


The Pacers already have a coach, Rick Carlisle, & will have just beaten the Lakers, so not much chance of catching on with his old team.

I am expecting a solid W tonight.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#203 » by mighty_duck » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:32 pm

How much longer will Vogel last?
22 games in, despite having the 3rd easiest schedule, we're only 11-11. Only one quality win all season (Miami).
The wins we got were tough, even though the opposition was sometimes glorified G-League teams.
Lots of losses to crap teams.

This isn't all on Frank, but teams with championship aspirations don't look like this. And it's usually the coach who pays the price, since we have little other ways to make a change.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#204 » by Danny Darko » Wed Dec 1, 2021 12:33 am

A roster that can't play defense and is all shooters and ballhogs that can't shoot or dribble... not Frank's fault. I'd hang in there with him... or we could just call Mr Pringles and live the 7 seconds or less nightmare again. Maybe Dwight would strangle him this time...
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#205 » by fteru6uhre54ew » Wed Dec 1, 2021 4:03 am

Just Imagine try to coach with a guy like Westbrook or Carmelo or Jordan or Monk. I'm sure he would be so happy if they fired him.

Pelinka has to go. He is the first reason because this team is trash.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#206 » by Kilroy » Wed Dec 1, 2021 5:37 am

When you talk about replacing a coach, I think it should be mandatory that you have a better legit option in mind... I think if we dumped Vogel right now, it would mean Fizdale as HC... Which I personally have no interest in...
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#207 » by stan francisco » Wed Dec 1, 2021 9:10 pm

Given the GoldenGirls roster Frank was dealt, I’d say he’s done great.

To start the season without a big train wreck W-L column is due to playing veterans who won’t be terrible nor great. It’s kept us afloat.

Now when rest of team (the younger talent) are starting to get what’s up, we can start resting Bradley, Rondo, DAJ etc and play Monk, Ellington, THT more. They should be more productive in the regular season than the vets.

It’s working. We’re improving defensively. We just need to make the playoffs. IMO, Westbrook and THT both need lots of PT to get it all dialed in before the post season.

If there’s any blame to go around it’s not on Frank. There’s only two coaches and n the current NBA I’d rather have and they’re under contract with Suns and Raptors.

Looking to blame someone? Losing Caruso and trading three rock solid players for incompatible Russ are two mind bogglingly stupid moves that deserve finger pointing long before anyone starts thinking about what Frank is doing to roll with it.

I put that squarely on Rich Paul and LBJ. I’d guess Pelinka reluctantly executed those trades.

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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#208 » by John Murdoch » Sat Dec 4, 2021 8:36 am

stan francisco wrote:Given the GoldenGirls roster Frank was dealt, I’d say he’s done great.

To start the season without a big train wreck W-L column is due to playing veterans who won’t be terrible nor great. It’s kept us afloat.

Now when rest of team (the younger talent) are starting to get what’s up, we can start resting Bradley, Rondo, DAJ etc and play Monk, Ellington, THT more. They should be more productive in the regular season than the vets.

It’s working. We’re improving defensively. We just need to make the playoffs. IMO, Westbrook and THT both need lots of PT to get it all dialed in before the post season.

If there’s any blame to go around it’s not on Frank. There’s only two coaches and n the current NBA I’d rather have and they’re under contract with Suns and Raptors.

Looking to blame someone? Losing Caruso and trading three rock solid players for incompatible Russ are two mind bogglingly stupid moves that deserve finger pointing long before anyone starts thinking about what Frank is doing to roll with it.

I put that squarely on Rich Paul and LBJ. I’d guess Pelinka reluctantly executed those trades.

#ItsNotFranksFault


I dont buy that it was rich paul lol. Pelnka wanted a shiny new toy and he took the bait from washington
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#209 » by SlimShady83 » Sat Dec 4, 2021 8:48 am

Who will he be replaced by?

Coach Rondo?
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#210 » by BEazy » Sun Dec 5, 2021 8:04 am

I've been a huge supporter of Vogel, but his time is up. If we can't play defense, we should be a damn near incredible offensive team. Unfortunately, Vogel cannot draw up any type of offense if it smacked him in the face. We are ranked 22nd on offense... We even got bottom dweller teams having a better offensive rating than us.

We gave up defense for offense and if we want to score at a high rate Vogel isn't the right coach for this team. Maybe Fizdale will help or even Phil Handy... I don't know, but they better think of something before LeKlutch gets disgruntled.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#211 » by stan francisco » Wed Dec 8, 2021 2:27 pm

Anyone still want to blame Frank after that third quarter of insanely stellar defense against the Celtics? Coaching is not the problem. Age and health is the biggest threat. That, and GSW.
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The Coach 

Post#212 » by thomas1897 » Wed Dec 8, 2021 10:17 pm

The fans have to remember Vogel won a championship. Any coach is as good as the talent and having the correct team chemistry given him by the management. Do not blame Vogel he was given this team. Would like to entertain any comments and rebuttal.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#213 » by BEazy » Thu Dec 9, 2021 8:17 am

Didn't think a 3rd quarter of defense would automatically put out the fire for this team. I think the people riding this high are going to be disappointed. Vogel is still very much a problem... Not all of it, but he's part of the problem.

Good defense against a 10th seed team without their 1st or 2nd, depending where you think Jaylen Brown ranks, best player for one quarter does not convince me at all...
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Re: The Coach 

Post#214 » by BEazy » Thu Dec 9, 2021 8:25 am

thomas1897 wrote:The fans have to remember Vogel won a championship. Any coach is as good as the talent and having the correct team chemistry given him by the management. Do not blame Vogel he was given this team. Would like to entertain any comments and rebuttal.


What do you mean given? Don't you think Pelinka would consult Vogel on the roster moves? He certainly has a voice with Pelinka, so I think it's foolish to label Vogel the victim of the poor roster construction.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#215 » by tamaraw08 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:09 am

ScHoolBoy B wrote:Didn't think a 3rd quarter of defense would automatically put out the fire for this team. I think the people riding this high are going to be disappointed. Vogel is still very much a problem... Not all of it, but he's part of the problem.

Good defense against a 10th seed team without their 1st or 2nd, depending where you think Jaylen Brown ranks, best player for one quarter does not convince me at all...

Lebron and his 2 other “stars” didn’t want to lose to a nemesis that embarrassed them before so they were very motivated and focused.
I only replace Vogel if there are better alternatives like Spoelstra or Pops. Handy has no experience while Fizdales failed at NY and Memphis. Speaking about Memphis, their current coach look good not just lately without Ja but even last season, eliminating Kerr’s Warriors. Not sure if he just stumbled into a winning formula or chemistry.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#216 » by Hans1984 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:13 pm

At this point you have to ask yourself why Vogel is still the coach.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#217 » by tamaraw08 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:40 pm

Hans1984 wrote:At this point you have to ask yourself why Vogel is still the coach.


I'm against replacing a decent coach if there is no better alternative available. However, firing head tactician usually pushes the players to put a much better effort to prove to the world that they are NOT the REASON for their struggles.
If Vogel is gone and they continue to lose to these bad teams, then Lebron, Davis and Westbrook would be EXPOSED as the culprit who is causing this miserable situation.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#218 » by Kilroy » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:18 pm

Westbrook, on his current contract, is essentially untradeable... LeBron is untradeable... That's like 85M/yr in salary right there...

AD might be tradeable, but you're going to have to take a bunch of lower quality players and bad contracts in return... So he's basically untradeable, unless you want either Simmons or Wall... Simmons is interesting but redundant next to LeBron...
I don't think an AD for either of the Indiana bigs makes sense either... AD's better than both of them, even how he's playing now...
That's another 35M/yr...

So, you have a roster with 3 players eating up 120M/yr, who you essentially can't trade... You have THT at 9.5M/yr and Nun at 5m/yr... And a bunch of vet min type contracts to round out the books...
You could possibly package THT and Nunn for someone, but who? The likelihood either of those guys could bring you a player that brings the special sauce that makes this team work, is extremely low...

Our only real hope to turn the season around is that Ariza and Nunn come back and completely change the chemistry of the team...

All of which is to say, even if you hate Vogel, logic would seem to dictate replacing him isn't going to have much chance at success...

Prime Phil Jackson might have had a shot, but my guess is LeBron would never accept his style of coaching... Westbrook, probably not either. Pop's from a different era too and I'm not seeing our players having the willingness to listen, he'd require...
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#219 » by TwoStarz » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:26 pm

Kilroy wrote:Westbrook, on his current contract, is essentially untradeable... LeBron is untradeable... That's like 85M/yr in salary right there...

AD might be tradeable, but you're going to have to take a bunch of lower quality players and bad contracts in return... So he's basically untradeable, unless you want either Simmons or Wall... Simmons is interesting but redundant next to LeBron...
I don't think an AD for either of the Indiana bigs makes sense either... AD's better than both of them, even how he's playing now...
That's another 35M/yr...

So, you have a roster with 3 players eating up 120M/yr, who you essentially can't trade... You have THT at 9.5M/yr and Nun at 5m/yr... And a bunch of vet min type contracts to round out the books...
You could possibly package THT and Nunn for someone, but who? The likelihood either of those guys could bring you a player that brings the special sauce that makes this team work, is extremely low...

Our only real hope to turn the season around is that Ariza and Nunn come back and completely change the chemistry of the team...

All of which is to say, even if you hate Vogel, logic would seem to dictate replacing him isn't going to have much chance at success...

Prime Phil Jackson might have had a shot, but my guess is LeBron would never accept his style of coaching... Westbrook, probably not either. Pop's from a different era too and I'm not seeing our players having the willingness to listen, he'd require...

You're right, no one currently out there that you can realistically see doing a better job with this roster while also commanding its respect. This is a team full of entitled veterans.

The right and wishful choice would've been Ty Lue, now he can coach.
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Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#220 » by BEazy » Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:39 pm

Well LeKlutch is giving out subtle hints that he's tired of the rotation inconsistencies. So I think it's the beginning of the end for Vogel unless something drastically changes.
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