PG: Leagues most selfish team loses again

[Jadoogar]

Raptors whined and complained all year about playing in Tampa just to go 2-8 in Toronto.
This team isn't even very fun to watch aside from Scottie.

To the people saying we were missing some players, Memphis didn't have their best player.

[Chandan]

Lol at people here blaming pascal and Fred when they are playing with gleague lineups and are expected to carry them. No shooting and rim protection either.

3very year they're playing with **** gleague lineups according to people... good players make others better. Our roster on paper isn't this bad. This g league **** is a cop-out . The team has chemistry issues, a **** offensive system and just lacks overall iq.

Look across the fuxking league. Benches are fiilled with a bunchof no names. Look ar the warriors bench.

If you think Pascal and fvv aren't to be blamed then you're admitting that they're only complimentary pieces. And if they can't lead thiscurewnt roster to more wins, then they shouldn't be given as much of a role or as much credit as you're giving them. Meaning they need to be around other stars to be successful.

If you're gonna go with that mindset, which I agree with, then you also can't flip out every time someone criticizes them... fvv isn't a 40 mpg player. He isnr the future pg of this team. I can guarantee a prime Lowry makes this a playoff team.

If lowry/demar led the raptors to Eastern conference finals, there's no reason this current team If fvv and siakam were that good couldn't qat least lead us to a winning record... the bench is not that bad.

not to mention who the grizzlies beat us with tonight we are the team that has championship battle tested vets earning the big bucks.

[bape_lovers]

The thing is..we rely on FVV/Pascal to dribble drive too much..no one can do that yet since OG and GTJR is injured..Barnes isn’t confident in his drives yet..his post game is very good..and he improved drastically on his spot up 3

Y’all really need to adjust your expectations. We are going to tank and that’s actually a good thing.

Losing games with honour is one thing. Let's pretend we saw improvement in our defence and we saw great ball movement, passes to cutters, sets that resulted in wide open threes and the ball just didn't fall. Or we came up against a team with great rim protectors or guards who can't miss a three even when covered well.

During far too many of our 5 on 5 offensive sets there is barely any movement. It is an ISO fest out there and it is boring.

[Got Nuffin]

Nurse really needs to clamp down on some of these guys randomly going 1-on-1 because it's their turn. Siakam, FVV, Scottie, OG should have license to create in good opportunities, but Precious taking his man every time he sees the ball, Boucher constantly launching like he's a splash brother and Flynn is just terrible all over the place. It's like a free for all.

Siakam and Barnes often take up the same spots on offence and have very little chemistry together. If things keep going as they are, it won't be long until Masai looks to sell our 'vets' in Siakam and FVV to the highest bidders, which really won't be a bad thing to add more younger talent and draft picks if possible.

Barnes is going to be a star, but this current team is playing some ugly basketball and not sure I can see a real future in this group at this stage.

[Scott Hall]

Both teams are trying to win this game

- Alvin Williams

[ItsDanger]

I'll reiterate, our offense is the main problem.

[RapsFanInOhio]

Van Vleet is not a true PG or a floor general. He is an undersized capable 3 + D SG. That is all.

Averaging 20.1 on 44/39/84.

[Ref_from_hell]

Raptors whined and complained all year about playing in Tampa just to go 2-8 in Toronto.
This team isn't even very fun to watch aside from Scottie.

To the people saying we were missing some players, Memphis didn't have their best player.

Yes and neither did we. OG is our best player in my mind. Trent is our best high-volume scorer. Birch is our best big. It's not as comparable. Yes the grizzlies are missing one player, who is their best player. But they have better depth.

I hate giving excuses, but these injuries have destroyed us. Like I'm not sure we can win a single game with the current guys on the floor unless we face a team like Houston or Orlando. The raptors don't have a lot of depth. They need their guys back.

That or our bench needs to elevate their game, which they have failed to do all year

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

[Son Goku 25]

Barnes would be averaging 20 if Kyle was our PG. FVV taking way too many shots. Driving to the basket with 2-3 defenders on him instead of passing to the open guy.

Achiuwa sucks, wish we get rid of him sooner than later. Dude has a low BBIQ and just doesn't fit the team. I hate how he's given a good pass and instead of quickly dunking it decides to take a dribble or pump fake giving the defenders time to block his shot.

I know we're trading Dragic but I hope he's our PG now with FVV the one attending to "personal matters".

Barnes is too raw offensively to average 20. Unless he he starts shooting 17-18 times per game.

Let’s be honest y’all used to say Kyle held JV back but now he’s an elite playmaker?

You're making sht up now. It was Demar who was tunnel visioned and Lowry was the engine of this team who made others better. Do better

[Tha Cynic]

Our defense is trending in the right direction, but it was still pretty bad in the first half. They just missed a lot of good looks. On offense we really miss Trent and OG's scoring these past few games.

To take the next step we need an upgrade at the 1 and 5. Or, we need to figure out who our best option at the 1 is. It might be Fred for now and he might continue to improve. Barnes isn't ready, Banton's not ready and Flynn can't shoot reliably enough.

That being said, I'm glad Flynn is getting more of an opportunity. Call me crazy, but I think he's a guy who's lost his way a bit and needs more of a green light, or just to know he can play through his mistakes. He needs to calibrate his shots and sometime he misfires which leads to an ugly miss, but if he can find his range within the game like Fred does at times he'll make them at a respectable clip.

I think we win these last two with Trent or OG playing. We've really been laboring on offense.

The only legit building blocks on this roster are Fred and Barnes. You can’t think 1/5 need an upgrade as if the rest of the roster is set.

There’s a weak front court, no athleticism in the backcourt and no bench to speak of. GTJ should really be the 6th man on this roster and hopefully a young guard can be found in the draft.

Guys like Flynn, banton and yuta have no business in the NBA but the scope is on the only legitimate starters on this team.

If this a joke? How is FVV in any way more of a building block than OG? FVV's age and game just do not align with where this team is heading. He's entering his prime and his strength is as a role player in an offensive shooter capacity. He would be the perfect fit on a team with 2 or 3 established stars, where he takes a backseat and plays a supporting cast role. On this team, his PG skills and personality are a detriment to a young team that you're trying to develop into an unselfish team with good habits.

The other players you listed are young players. Do you not remember what FVV was before he became what he is today? The Raptors are essentially the youngest team in the league right now and they haven't had the luxury of sending Flynn, Banton and Precious to the G league as frequently as they did with FVV, Pascal and Norm.

The biggest issue is the lack of team ball right now. I don't mind them missing shots as long as they are playing team ball.

[ItsDanger]

Dekker > Bonga

[pingpongrac]

Raptors whined and complained all year about playing in Tampa just to go 2-8 in Toronto.
This team isn't even very fun to watch aside from Scottie.

To the people saying we were missing some players, Memphis didn't have their best player.

Yes and neither did we. OG is our best player in my mind. Trent is our best high-volume scorer. Birch is our best big. It's not as comparable. Yes the grizzlies are missing one player, who is their best player. But they have better depth.

I hate giving excuses, but these injuries have destroyed us. Like I'm not sure we can win a single game with the current guys on the floor unless we face a team like Houston or Orlando. The raptors don't have a lot of depth. They need their guys back.

That or our bench needs to elevate their game, which they have failed to do all year

This is the biggest issue and I'm going to keep harping on it until some people actually acknowledge the reason for our struggles lately.

Coming into this season, I thought we had better depth than last year because I was assuming Dragic would be a key piece for 15-20 minutes off the bench and Boucher would still be a solid role player (not the very efficient 14/7/2 player he was last year though). Obviously I was wrong on both accounts as it was clear from game 2 or 3 that we were focusing on developing Banton/Flynn meaning Dragic wouldn't get any burn and Boucher has been a shell of himself (6/4/1 on 45 TS%). Players that I assumed would be the 11th and 12th men (Svi and Banton) have played every game and they're averaging 19 and 13 MPG respectively. Flynn has been a massive disappointment, averaging 11/5/4 on 42 TS% per36 (14/5/5 on 48 TS% in his rookie season). Yuta missed most of the season so far and he struggled with his offence in the first 2 games, but he was very good tonight. We are counting on our depth to produce without 2 starters and another key bench piece, but they are failing miserably because they just aren't able to perform consistently yet. Most of our bench is extremely young and/or new to the team (Boucher and Yuta are the only currently available bench pieces older than 24), so it's understandable though.

I am one of few anti-tank posters on this board, but I am perfectly fine with the results lately. Our young guys are getting opportunities to play through some adversity and we're developing a lot of youth all at once. If these ugly 90-point offensive games with shoddy defence were consistently happening with OG and GTJ in the mix (and fully/mostly healthy in general), I'd start to worry and be disappointed. It doesn't make sense to do that now though because Nurse is literally playing all of our youth minutes that they quite honestly don't deserve and putting them in positions to prove themselves. Our future (and/or projects) is the main reason we are losing these games. Banton, Flynn and Svi have all been just terrible for most of these 10+ games since Siakam returned and the slump started. Bonga hasn't shown a whole lot in limited minutes lately. Even Scottie has been very up and down (like Nurse said in the post-game interview) and we've been a significantly better defensive team when he is off the floor. We're just a young and inexperienced team which is amplified when we're missing OG, GTJ and Birch.

[Brettfinch]

Read on Twitter

this was pre prime-derozan/Lowry days right?

Earlier than that, sunny weems was pizza

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[Chandan]

Read on Twitter

okay i am going to give this muther **** a point for guts and creativity. he's clearly enjoying himself and having some fun it's not a bad thing to see.

[Brettfinch]

I've said this long time ago. FVV and Pascal are the problem of the team. You're not going anywhere you're selfish, the only brightspot of the team this season is Scottie Barnes and OG.

I'm hoping we ship them both for a package during the season.

That’s ironic as OG is the most selfish player out of that group.

Let’s get away from the rhetoric this team isn’t going nowhere as the roster is constructed. Blaming the best players on a bad team is what nba media does not y’all who actually watch the games.

So true, I thought I was crazy but OG/Trent are the most selfish on this team.

Two different mentalities tho,

OG has been told hes the gunner and is trying to be that guy, and Trent thinks he is that guy and chucks (alot).

Siakam and Fred pass the ball and are our best two players. We do need to get the ball moving tho we are playing ugly **** basketball.

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[Brettfinch]

I've said this long time ago. FVV and Pascal are the problem of the team. You're not going anywhere you're selfish, the only brightspot of the team this season is Scottie Barnes and OG.

I'm hoping we ship them both for a package during the season.

That’s ironic as OG is the most selfish player out of that group.

Let’s get away from the rhetoric this team isn’t going nowhere as the roster is constructed. Blaming the best players on a bad team is what nba media does not y’all who actually watch the games.

Pascal had like 5 or 6 assists tonight? Og averages about 1 per game for his career lol. It's a strange point.

I don't think that means OG is 'selfish". I dislike all these claims about guys' characters and pseudo-psychological projections. Some guys are better at passing than others. It's not because of personality traits.

OG isn't selfish but he's being told he needs to shoot and score for us, and he looks off alot of teammates for a forced fade away. He just needs to learn some balance. I like OG

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[Brettfinch]

Barnes would be averaging 20 if Kyle was our PG. FVV taking way too many shots. Driving to the basket with 2-3 defenders on him instead of passing to the open guy.

Achiuwa sucks, wish we get rid of him sooner than later. Dude has a low BBIQ and just doesn't fit the team. I hate how he's given a good pass and instead of quickly dunking it decides to take a dribble or pump fake giving the defenders time to block his shot.

I know we're trading Dragic but I hope he's our PG now with FVV the one attending to "personal matters".

What a take.... dragic lul

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[Brettfinch]

Read on Twitter

Dillion Brooks - Douche Bag

Straight up can't stand the guy...

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[HiJiNX]

Y’all really need to adjust your expectations. We are going to tank and that’s actually a good thing.

Losing games with honour is one thing. Let's pretend we saw improvement in our defence and we saw great ball movement, passes to cutters, sets that resulted in wide open threes and the ball just didn't fall. Or we came up against a team with great rim protectors or guards who can't miss a three even when covered well.

During far too many of our 5 on 5 offensive sets there is barely any movement. It is an ISO fest out there and it is boring.

Exactly! It’s not the result that’s upsetting, it’s the process. We had eleven total assists AS A TEAM for 48 minutes of basketball. That’s just unacceptable. We have entire possessions with one or zero passes. That’s just unacceptable.

And it doesn’t teach good habits. And in a developmental year that’s one of the primary things you want to instil.

Then you look at the fact that this team and many players on it continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Where is the learning?? The lack of learning doesn’t make me excited for the future. I’m fine with losing, I’m not fine with the fashion in which it’s happening. Are we really gonna sit here and act like this group isn’t good enough to make the playoffs?

-Siakam - champion, all star, 2nd team all NBA, improved midrange shooter
-FVV - champion, consistent 4th quarter performer, great guard defender
-OG - champion, 20ppg scorer, 1 to 5 defender, maybe the best perimeter defender in the league, shoots the three well even when contested
-Barnes - ROY, special talent that does everything
-GTJ - microwave shooter who can get a bucket at will, great defender
-Birch - glue big, great passer on pnr, consistent paint finisher, great screener
-Svi - proven shooter, can also drive in space, good athlete, capable defender
-Boucher - near 40% three point shooter last year, though there’s obvious regression, history shows he can shoot and block shots

That team isn’t good enough to get a bottom seed in the east? Or at least remain competitive in games? We’re on the verge of getting blown out every game and it’s not just injuries or lack of continuity. It’s bad basketball. And fans are getting sick of it.