The TRADE Thread 2021

[KF10]

This team is flawed no matter who is coaching this team. I've always said this for the past 2-3 years now. Trade high and acquire assets.

They need to bottom out just like we did in the 08-09 season.

[LightTheBeam]

I would have to agree with this.
I was going to say after the Lakers game, go back and have a look at the first half of Fox. He looked seriously like he had checked out on the D end. He still played a decent game overall, however its on the D end that he needs to start developing and his numbers will come anyway.
Even then, when he was hot late in the game we went away from him and he was just playing off ball and not touching it? WTF

Anyway I think it's time to cash in on the vets as you say. Barnes has some currency. Holmes is a terrific player that is paid low enough to be an energetic big off the bench for a team as well as a starter.
I wonder what the market for Buddy is at the moment and whether it can/will improve around the league.

I still believe this team, as is, will make the play in, however, what is the ceiling? Is Fox going to mature into a superstar? I don't think so. So, the Kings need to do whatever they can to get their CWebb, whether by trade or draft. It looks likely it would happen with the former.

Ya Barnes should have been traded last deadline imo. If the Celtics offer surrounding 1 of Nesmith/Langford + 1st was ever really on the table they missed a golden opportunity.

Nesmith + Sengun would have been great additions to this team.

I'm pretty sure Buddy will have some value around this deadline, probably not a ton but I think the Lakers are going to try to put a package together. The Pelicans still make a ton of sense to me if they think Zion is ever going to play. They need shooters around him. and I dont think they can outright tank with Zion without pissing him off so I wouldn't be surprised if they are still buyers. Could do something like Hart + Sato for Buddy.

Holmes I don't think gets moved yet. He just signed the extension, and centers don't carry a ton of value in the league. I think GS makes the most sense but its tough to see what they would give up. Wiseman+ Looney both needed to cover the contract.

Still if the team went that route starting last deadline, maybe something like

Sengun/Wiseman
Bagley/Metu
Hart/Nesmith
Haliburton/Ramsey
Fox/Mitchell

I would have rather seen this team fail but grow rather than whatever it is we are throwing out there right now.

[BoogieTime]

I dont know how you'd handle Fox at this point, as it looks like Gentry got him to play with heart for a few games and that's it.

If something is wrong with him, other than his low motor contributing to a complete lack of leadership/impact, it needs to be known. Though I'm guessing with management threatening to trade him already through Amick, that's not the case.

First, his value is not good. I think Simmons is totally far reaching at this juncture, and that's the only thing on the radar, after his year. IMO that trade shouldve been made in the summer, but if you can add anything other than Hali/Mitchell/firsts to sweeten the pot, please do. But I still think the ship has sailed

Kings fans are making threads in the trades and transactions, which are painful, Fox's value is in the toilet at this juncture IMO.

So, now that we (or I) accept that, how to handle this if that's true?

1.Simmons - Do it yesterday and add whatever you can besides Hali/Mitchell/less than one first, yesterday IMO, and pray that Ben is getting no serious offers and that his value is diminishing by the day that this is in range

But if the real possibility exists that the Sixers have moved on from that notion, there are now two avenues that the team has to come across:

2.Tank with him
3.Sell low on him

More in depth -

2. There is one positive to Fox's regression, and that is the theory that you can tank with him over the next series of years, and hope he gets a brain or heart, and plays with some remote passion as he gets older as a player and hopefully gets tired of losing. This is going to require patience as fans might have to watch him going through the motions for several years and possibly spreading his lack of motor energy on the rest of the lockerroom. Still, the notion that you could watch him continue to have no impact, while we get rid of all vets, and hope to get some top 5-6 picks, while he eventually find his career in several years could mean a top point guard with several top picks in the medium-distant future. Again this road requires patience with him not living up to standards

3. Management has threatened Fox already through a scathing article by Amick a week or so back after the loss to Philadelphia. They seem impetuous on his play. Could you see management trade him for pennies on the dollar of his yesteryear value as they believe his lack of energy and leadership to be contagious?


For me, I guess I'd go 1 than 2 than 3. Ive been mad at his regression, but now it is what it is. Get rid of the vets, and let him guide us top some top picks while Hali and Mitchell continue to develop and possibly/probably surpass him. Hope that by the time he gets into his mid-late 20s his talent supersedes his low motor. But, I may be tuning out a lot of games while it happens

[BoogieTime]

But I think management will settle on 3. Fans IMO are going to be shocked by the return. But I anticipate him being on another team several weeks from now

[PhillyNj]

This team is flawed no matter who is coaching this team. I've always said this for the past 2-3 years now. Trade high and acquire assets.

They need to bottom out just like we did in the 08-09 season.

I think the trade high ship has sailed. Fox and Haliburton stock has plunged. Might be best off just biting the bullet on the season.
Better to make no trade than make a bad one.

[LightTheBeam]

Rinse and repeat.

This team just isn't very talented.

I love Hali but hes basically exactly the player he was last year, only with worse efficiency. He disappears way to often to ever be a true star. I had hopes he could be a Middleton like player, but hes afraid or something.

Mitchell is destined to be a small Pat Bev. Hes not a good shooter, he can't get to the rim because he just gets blocked. I like him in terms of a backup pg who gives you defense, but I'm not high on him ever becoming a starter level player. Terrible pick, much rather have risked with Bouknight/Moody/Sengun and hoped the potential paid off.

Holmes is awesome and the only player who shows up pretty much every night.

Buddy is forever hot or cold. That would be fine if he was making 8-10 million as a bench sparkplug.

Then when you have a roster like we did the last few games with Len, King, Davis, playing big minutes, its not going to be pretty.

This has been my biggest complaint with Monte. Way too safe. Thought adding a middling rookie to a crap team would make a big difference.

Then Fox gets all the blame if he doesn't drop 35pts like hes some superstar. I've got plenty of complaints about him, but really hard for me to put it on his shoulders when the rest of his backcourt scores 19 pts on 31 shots.

[BoogieTime]

This team is flawed no matter who is coaching this team. I've always said this for the past 2-3 years now. Trade high and acquire assets.

They need to bottom out just like we did in the 08-09 season.

I think the trade high ship has sailed. Fox and Haliburton stock has plunged. Might be best off just biting the bullet on the season.
Better to make no trade than make a bad one.

I dont think anyone is worried about Hali's trade value...

You could still trade high on some of the vets

[jeffjtk1234]

Trade them all


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[LightTheBeam]

Trade them all


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The sad thing is how this team is. I really can't put my finger on the issue.

Sure coaching is part of it. But its also the losing culture I guess you could say. The organization is rotten, and it leaks to the players.

Take the last 8 quarters.

1st half vs LAL, good basketball, good ball movement, players working together and we are up a good amount. 2nd half, 1 on 1 basketball, bad shots, no teamwork, no movement, get dominated.

3 quarters vs LAC, same story and we are up 20+. 4th quarter they come out and instead of putting their foot on LAC throat, they go back to 1 on 1. Fox/Mitchell each taking turns and nobody moving without the ball. LAC comes back and makes a game out of it.

Ultimately they lack consistency and effort for 48 minutes. They will give you a solid 24-36 minutes, but that other 12-24 minutes is some of the worst basketball ive ever seen. Its been the story vs a lot of teams where they don't show up for 1 quarter and then get blown out. SA, Memphis, LAL. The Minnesota/OKC/76ers games they didn't show up at all and were in a position to win both of those.

Its so easy to envision a world where they should have actually won 3-4 more games. And would be sitting somewhere between 12-13 wins. But they just don't show up.

[Bulls2021]

Do you guys think a trade of Patrick Williams, Coby White and Portland's 2022 1st round pick (lottery protected until 2028) + is enough for Harrison Barnes?

[jeffjtk1234]

Do you guys think a trade of Patrick Williams, Coby White and Portland's 2022 1st round pick (lottery protected until 2028) + is enough for Harrison Barnes?

Yes


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[Bulls2021]

Do you guys think a trade of Patrick Williams, Coby White and Portland's 2022 1st round pick (lottery protected until 2028) is enough for Harrison Barnes?

[LightTheBeam]

Do you guys think a trade of Patrick Williams, Coby White and Portland's 2022 1st round pick (lottery protected until 2028) is enough for Harrison Barnes?

Id do this no problem. Think you have to include DJJ for salary purposes. But maybe we can sneak Harkless back your way.

[LightTheBeam]

Sacramento goes for broke Chicago style. 3 separate trades presented as 1 to make the post shorter.

Houston out: Wood
Houston in: Bagley, 2022 Sacramento Kings 1st (top 3 protected)

Why for Houston? Sell Wood for a first round pick. Take a chance on Bagley whose shown some talent but obviously needs a different home.

Philly out: Simmons
Philly in: Buddy, Haliburton, 2024 Sacramento 1st

Why for Philly? Get out of Simmons and pick up a nice facilitator/shooter in Haliburton. Buddy adds bench scoring and shooting as well. Also pick up a 1st to use in a follow up deal or hold onto and could be worth a lot.

Brooklyn out: Irving
Brooklyn in: Barnes, Mitchell, Tristan

Why for Brooklyn? Get a young defensive first pg whose ready to contribute right now. Barnes adds a nice wing player for them, and even Tristan can play 15-20mpg as a big off the bench.

Sac out: Barnes, Mitchell, Buddy, Hali, Bagley, Tristan
Sac in: Irving, Simmons, Wood

Why for Sac? Assemble a super talented but poor fitting team together. The most talent they have had in forever. This team has a flight risk in Irving, and a guy who may not even show up in Simmons, but if they can make it work they will finally make the playoffs. Irving - Fox - Simmons - Wood - Holmes

[kb02]

Sacramento goes for broke Chicago style. 3 separate trades presented as 1 to make the post shorter.

Houston out: Wood
Houston in: Bagley, 2022 Sacramento Kings 1st (top 3 protected)

Why for Houston? Sell Wood for a first round pick. Take a chance on Bagley whose shown some talent but obviously needs a different home.

Philly out: Simmons
Philly in: Buddy, Haliburton, 2024 Sacramento 1st

Why for Philly? Get out of Simmons and pick up a nice facilitator/shooter in Haliburton. Buddy adds bench scoring and shooting as well. Also pick up a 1st to use in a follow up deal or hold onto and could be worth a lot.

Brooklyn out: Irving
Brooklyn in: Barnes, Mitchell, Tristan

Why for Brooklyn? Get a young defensive first pg whose ready to contribute right now. Barnes adds a nice wing player for them, and even Tristan can play 15-20mpg as a big off the bench.

Sac out: Barnes, Mitchell, Buddy, Hali, Bagley, Tristan
Sac in: Irving, Simmons, Wood

Why for Sac? Assemble a super talented but poor fitting team together. The most talent they have had in forever. This team has a flight risk in Irving, and a guy who may not even show up in Simmons, but if they can make it work they will finally make the playoffs. Irving - Fox - Simmons - Wood - Holmes

All those trades, but you don't touch the one player, who will be the first to go: Fox. Salary, replacements behind him, fit. Fox for Simmons or Sabonis. Get it done, Monte!

[BoogieTime]

Sacramento goes for broke Chicago style. 3 separate trades presented as 1 to make the post shorter.

Houston out: Wood
Houston in: Bagley, 2022 Sacramento Kings 1st (top 3 protected)

Why for Houston? Sell Wood for a first round pick. Take a chance on Bagley whose shown some talent but obviously needs a different home.

Philly out: Simmons
Philly in: Buddy, Haliburton, 2024 Sacramento 1st

Why for Philly? Get out of Simmons and pick up a nice facilitator/shooter in Haliburton. Buddy adds bench scoring and shooting as well. Also pick up a 1st to use in a follow up deal or hold onto and could be worth a lot.

Brooklyn out: Irving
Brooklyn in: Barnes, Mitchell, Tristan

Why for Brooklyn? Get a young defensive first pg whose ready to contribute right now. Barnes adds a nice wing player for them, and even Tristan can play 15-20mpg as a big off the bench.

Sac out: Barnes, Mitchell, Buddy, Hali, Bagley, Tristan
Sac in: Irving, Simmons, Wood

Why for Sac? Assemble a super talented but poor fitting team together. The most talent they have had in forever. This team has a flight risk in Irving, and a guy who may not even show up in Simmons, but if they can make it work they will finally make the playoffs. Irving - Fox - Simmons - Wood - Holmes

All those trades, but you don't touch the one player, who will be the first to go: Fox. Salary, replacements behind him, fit. Fox for Simmons or Sabonis. Get it done, Monte!

Totally

Hali is the last to go by a very wide margin as most kings fans would agree IMO. Not moving him for Simmons, and it wouldn’t take sweetener to get that deal done IMO

[LightTheBeam]

Sacramento goes for broke Chicago style. 3 separate trades presented as 1 to make the post shorter.

Houston out: Wood
Houston in: Bagley, 2022 Sacramento Kings 1st (top 3 protected)

Why for Houston? Sell Wood for a first round pick. Take a chance on Bagley whose shown some talent but obviously needs a different home.

Philly out: Simmons
Philly in: Buddy, Haliburton, 2024 Sacramento 1st

Why for Philly? Get out of Simmons and pick up a nice facilitator/shooter in Haliburton. Buddy adds bench scoring and shooting as well. Also pick up a 1st to use in a follow up deal or hold onto and could be worth a lot.

Brooklyn out: Irving
Brooklyn in: Barnes, Mitchell, Tristan

Why for Brooklyn? Get a young defensive first pg whose ready to contribute right now. Barnes adds a nice wing player for them, and even Tristan can play 15-20mpg as a big off the bench.

Sac out: Barnes, Mitchell, Buddy, Hali, Bagley, Tristan
Sac in: Irving, Simmons, Wood

Why for Sac? Assemble a super talented but poor fitting team together. The most talent they have had in forever. This team has a flight risk in Irving, and a guy who may not even show up in Simmons, but if they can make it work they will finally make the playoffs. Irving - Fox - Simmons - Wood - Holmes

All those trades, but you don't touch the one player, who will be the first to go: Fox. Salary, replacements behind him, fit. Fox for Simmons or Sabonis. Get it done, Monte!

Not a fan of either of those.

Fox is getting the blame, meanwhile Hali has regressed since last year but nobody is talking about it.

Before we trade our best player, lets try to put a semi decent team around him huh?

[kb02]

Sacramento goes for broke Chicago style. 3 separate trades presented as 1 to make the post shorter.

Houston out: Wood
Houston in: Bagley, 2022 Sacramento Kings 1st (top 3 protected)

Why for Houston? Sell Wood for a first round pick. Take a chance on Bagley whose shown some talent but obviously needs a different home.

Philly out: Simmons
Philly in: Buddy, Haliburton, 2024 Sacramento 1st

Why for Philly? Get out of Simmons and pick up a nice facilitator/shooter in Haliburton. Buddy adds bench scoring and shooting as well. Also pick up a 1st to use in a follow up deal or hold onto and could be worth a lot.

Brooklyn out: Irving
Brooklyn in: Barnes, Mitchell, Tristan

Why for Brooklyn? Get a young defensive first pg whose ready to contribute right now. Barnes adds a nice wing player for them, and even Tristan can play 15-20mpg as a big off the bench.

Sac out: Barnes, Mitchell, Buddy, Hali, Bagley, Tristan
Sac in: Irving, Simmons, Wood

Why for Sac? Assemble a super talented but poor fitting team together. The most talent they have had in forever. This team has a flight risk in Irving, and a guy who may not even show up in Simmons, but if they can make it work they will finally make the playoffs. Irving - Fox - Simmons - Wood - Holmes

All those trades, but you don't touch the one player, who will be the first to go: Fox. Salary, replacements behind him, fit. Fox for Simmons or Sabonis. Get it done, Monte!

Not a fan of either of those.

Fox is getting the blame, meanwhile Hali has regressed since last year but nobody is talking about it.

Before we trade our best player, lets try to put a semi decent team around him huh?

If Hali has regressed, what would you call Fox’s play this year? And, long term, Hali will be better than Fox.

[LightTheBeam]

All those trades, but you don't touch the one player, who will be the first to go: Fox. Salary, replacements behind him, fit. Fox for Simmons or Sabonis. Get it done, Monte!

Not a fan of either of those.

Fox is getting the blame, meanwhile Hali has regressed since last year but nobody is talking about it.

Before we trade our best player, lets try to put a semi decent team around him huh?

If Hali has regressed, what would you call Fox’s play this year? And, long term, Hali will be better than Fox.

They both have had bad starts. My pt is that fox is averaging 21 and we're talking about what a disappointment he's been. Hali is averaging 12pts and shooting down across the board. Yet he consistently avoids criticism even when he shoots 0 for, or 2-9. That should be unacceptable for a guy who kings fans consider a true building block.

They are different players. I'm not convinced haliburton can ever be a teams top 2 or even 3 scorer. Hes fantastic facilitator, and has defensive potential (although he's been bad there this year). I love him as a teams 4th guy and lead play maker. Fox can be a good teams elite #2.

I don't want to move either of them really. I want to add real players to the existing group. Hard for me to judge any of them with a lack of talent, and Waltons awful coaching.

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[LightTheBeam]

At this juncture Fox (even with the misses last night) its clear to me that we shouldn't trade him for Simmons. This team would struggle to hit the century mark nightly. Plus with Simmons holding out and seeming lack of market, its clear that the Sixers are going to cave soon and sell him for cheaper.

I still wouldn't mind finding a way to bring SImmons in with Fox, just put the talent on the floor, fit be damned. We need to create our own identity instead of trying to be the Warriors.

Very impressed with Bagley since Walton got fired, hope we don't move him for cheap anymore.

At this pt, id like to hold Fox, Hali, Davis, Bagley, Holmes and Mitchell though it wouldn't bother me if we used him to improve now. Barnes/Hield need to be on the way out. Tired of watching Buddy brick 15 shocks, and Barnes get stripped on the interior, his hot start wasn't sustainable as per usual.