GT: Knicks at Nets. 11/30/2021 7:30 pm EST - TNT

[Rich Rane]

Honestly surprised a lot of my Knick coworkers aren't more pissed at Randle. KD schools him and gets a tech, but he had Harden defending him in the post after and he decides on a fadeaway.

[HardenGoat]

You take take Kyrie in a heartbeat. What happens in the post season is the game gets decided by the stars, mostly due to teams learning every play you have, the inevitable fatigue that sets in, plus the game slowing down. The team with stars that can create their own shots has the edge, and we would have 3 of the best (Iam making an assumption Harden returns to his full capabilities - he will barring injury). I don't care how great a coach the other team has, a healthy big 3 would be our best option for dealing with a team like the Warriors. Outscore them, our defense is better this year anyways.

[Claud]

Life's been a rollercoaster lately, but still watching our games and keeping up.

From what I've seen so far, I definately think we need to make a move for a Center. If Kyrie won't play maybe flip him for a Myles Turner type big that could be available. We won't get equal value, but at least we'll get SOMETHING to help us make a run this season.
A McGee type signing that can give us some length and activity to maximize Harden's offensive skills.

Harden still trying to find himself but I think by playoffs he'll be ready.
Not even worried about KD. Both will be ready as long as they can stay healthy and we can manage their minutes. Regular season is meaningless to us since I'm not really sure we have a good homecourt advantage.

Patty, Aldridge and Bembry have been GREAT additions. All fit their roles perfectly. Top signings.
James Johnson and Carter are good defensive vets, but still not sure about them. Feeling a bit better about Johnson.

Glad to see Bruce Brown back since he gives us a lot intangibles and energy/hustle which we sorely need.

Sad to see Joe Harris will miss some time, but he should be ready around Allstar weekened. The one positive is that Cam will get more meaningful playing time which should help him develop faster. Good signs so far.

Nash hasn't been great to say the least, but I doubt he gets the boot.
Milsap has been trash, but I understand this is the time to try out different players early on the seaosn and Blake had been bad for a while so It was a good idea. Now, we know for a fact even though Blake was struggling offensively, he's definately better than Milsap. I'd keep Aldridge as starter and Blake as his backup until Claxton is up and running or we make a move for a C.

Eveything considered, It's been a good start to the season but we definately aren't the favorites for the chip until they Kyrie situation gets sorted.

[HardenGoat]

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[MrDollarBills]

:lol:

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What makes this even sweeter is that we beat them in our New Jersey uniforms !!!!

[haosmoove]

Disregarding the advance coaching X and Os. If you were the coach last night, would you:

1) intentionally foul the Knicks up by 3 with 17 seconds left and no timeouts remaining?
2) intentionally miss the 2nd of 2 ft up by one with 2.2 secs left to go?

I would probably do both.
1) We have Harden KD and Mills on the team up by 3, it's highly unlikely that we lose a ft war. Not to mention the Knicks need to waste a few seconds getting the ball into the front court after each exchange of ft shooting. (Or we choose to foul their lesser shooters if they choose to inbound to them)
2) with 2.2 secs to go, a 2 pt lead is as good as a 1 pt lead 95% of the time. By letting them rebound the miss, their options dwindle to backcourt 3 or quick outlet pass follow by quick catch and shoot. With the second option, we can set up 4 defense where the shooter can't get off the clean look.

[DarkXaero]

I see that the irrational hate for Nash here continues to be overboard. Guess it's time to check out from RealGM Nets forum again.

[sashaturiaf]

Always awesome to beat the knicks. this game gave me heartburn. my thoughts...

1) Nets v. Knicks has juice. This is why i said it was a travesty that it was nets/lakers not nets/knicks on christmas day. doesnt matter whose good or bad or who is playing or not. Nets/Knicks will be good TV. WTF cares about nets/lakers? NBA missed that one. give us nets knicks every christmas.

2) Why in the world are we not switching everything the last defensive possesion when the knicks tied it at 110? I mean, Thibs brought Fournier off the bench specifically because he can hit threes. Fournier had shot well. it was clear the play would be for fournier. How do you not switch that? thats basketball 101. its one thing if you overplay the switch and he slips backdoor for an easy layup. your still up 1 with the ball. The knicks had ZERO timeouts. We were in the Bonus. there were under 24 seconds. switch everything and take a quick foul. We had a stoppage and got to sub in brown/defenders too. no excuses. just awful.

3) Bembry is a G,

4) WTF are we leaving three point shooters to double Randle? that killed us like 4 or 5 times. we left shooters to double him. Randle wasnt even playing well offensively. took him 23 shots to get 24 points. There is no need to double team Randle who was taking triple crossover step back jumpers all night. we were never gonna lose with Randle outshooting LMA/KD from the mid range. Again, just awful prep, awful strategy, and 0 adjustments

5) Why do we refuse to call a timeout when teams go on 10-0 or more runs? we dont kill momentum and we dont sub. its awful. We had huge leads on the knicks. we call timeouts at 6-0 or 9-1 runs and we can help maintain and rebuild those leads. Whats worse is when we get a TV timeout to finally end the bleeding, nash just comes right back our of the timeoute with the same lineup and 0 adjustments.

6) I get KD is going to take the majority of his shots in isolation. he is arguably the best iso scorer ever. i get he is going to take mid range shots, he is arguably the best mid range shooter ever. That said, that cant just be the only offensive attack we have from KD. we put ZERO pressure on the D off-ball with KD. We dont make the defense move. its predictable. its a pindown or baseline mid posts. it easy to send help. and its easy to keep the primary defender on him. How about have KD set an offball screen for mills. it gets mills an open 3 or forces an off ball switch. how about running KD action where he curls from outside down the line or aback door. there is just 0 creativity. we do nothing to put KD in the best spot to score, to make it impossible to guard. Teams run out on us because they dont need to rotate and can crash the glass or just run out.

7) the final possesion for us was terrible. We had KD just run clock from the top of the key. no action, nothing to prevent help. we saw a few possesion earlier they were going to double team KD high late in the clock and make him give it up. We made it super easy for them to force james johnson to take the last shot. props to JJ, although robinson bailed us out a bit. JJ hit the FTs, super clutch, but going back to game 3 vs. milwakuee. you have 2 mega star elite scorers and johnson/brown taking the last shots. every other team in the league gets their star a shot. Maybe KD still gives it up, be he had 0 shot to take that last shot. and we should have known it was coming. they just did it with success a few plays prior.

8) Quickly may have single handedly won it for us. he took like 6 YOLO curry territory threes and bricked the F out of them.

9) Harden was outstanding. i thought he might show out after the last loss and questions about his play. Dude has shown up as our best player in like half our games. he is playing all-nba level, even if still not his typical MVP self.

10) im not going to get on Milsap. its not his fault the coaches are playing him 20+ backup minutes. He should not be playing center. he should be 8-10 minutes at backup PF. i like his toughness, IQ on D, and rebounding on both ends. but he cant be that backup 5 getting big minutes. Blake is just better at the 5. he makes a ton of momentum plays. he would have taken 3 or 4 charges tonight.

11) thomas gave us real good minutes. his +/1 was not inidicative of hims impact. good shot selection nd his 4s felt would use him again for sure

always great to be the knicks. nash needs to resign.

2, 6, and 7 are inexcusable. No exaggeration to say any fan with a modicum of basketball knowledge wouldn't be worse than Nash at managing those things if you give them the resources that Nash has at his disposal.

I like Nash and he is clearly good at managing players' egos and morale, but our offense is simply ugly stuff considering we have 2 of the most unstoppable offensive forces in the league.

That final play was inexcusable. Nash should have known that they were going to double KD, and when they did there was no help at all coming and we got lucky that KD was able to find JJ and the fact that he was clutch at the line. It should never come to that

Reggie Miller was screaming all game for Durant and Harden to run the pick and roll. Instead the offense has everyone standing around watching them ISO into tough shots. Nash is capping the potential of this team.

I refuse to believe Nash can be this dumb, I think he's got the KD/Harden 2 man game as a break in case of emergency play that will be unleashed onto the league when the games start to matter.

The goal is for a championship and as frustrating as it is for us hardcore fans watching every game, these games ultimately don't really matter. I'm sure it's just part of Nash's plan to try every permutation of lineups out there so guys 1-12 all can handle pressure situation when it matters.

[Papi_swav]

what an awesome back and forth game. This is what a rivalry is all about, both teams brung it. Harden was aggressive out the gate. Bembry is a beast ! Definitely a fan favorite. Cam is also coming along very nicely. Lets keep racking these Ws up.

I'm a little worried that some of these games are too close then they should be. But on the other hand we have an elite closer .

[MrDollarBills]

2, 6, and 7 are inexcusable. No exaggeration to say any fan with a modicum of basketball knowledge wouldn't be worse than Nash at managing those things if you give them the resources that Nash has at his disposal.

I like Nash and he is clearly good at managing players' egos and morale, but our offense is simply ugly stuff considering we have 2 of the most unstoppable offensive forces in the league.

That final play was inexcusable. Nash should have known that they were going to double KD, and when they did there was no help at all coming and we got lucky that KD was able to find JJ and the fact that he was clutch at the line. It should never come to that

Reggie Miller was screaming all game for Durant and Harden to run the pick and roll. Instead the offense has everyone standing around watching them ISO into tough shots. Nash is capping the potential of this team.

I refuse to believe Nash can be this dumb, I think he's got the KD/Harden 2 man game as a break in case of emergency play that will be unleashed onto the league when the games start to matter.

The goal is for a championship and as frustrating as it is for us hardcore fans watching every game, these games ultimately don't really matter. I'm sure it's just part of Nash's plan to try every permutation of lineups out there so guys 1-12 all can handle pressure situation when it matters.

I wish I was this optimistic.

I mean it really is the most simple solution as well as setting screens to force KD into mismatches against smaller players. There's really no way for an opposing team to stop a KD/Harden PnR/PnP

[Prokorov]

Option 1 - Kyrie returns next week and Nash stays for remaining of this season

Option 2- Kyrie doesn’t play another game as a Net , Nash is fired next week ( replaced with your preferred head coach)

I have a slightly different take here, with some caveats--

- Beard is getting back to his deadliness little by little, and that's great to see, and bodes very well for us

- KD is on track for a significant injury thanks to Nash's kowtowing to KD's insistence upon minutes. The bigger issue though is that Marks and even Tsai should know better. That's right-- this particular issue is a Sean Marks and Tsai Chung-Hsin problem way more than it is a KD (the hero) or a Nash (stuck in a hopeless position here) problem. Come at me.

- I'm no Nash fan. If he was a natural coaching prodigy, that would be one thing. But I agree with Bills and others-- his hire was little more than cronyism (not quite "nepotism"), and it's hard to understand Sean Mark's thinking process upon such.

- At the same time (even with Nash), without Giannis' dirty move, Nets are likely the champs for '20-21. Let's not completely forget that, i.e. the fact that we really did get screwed last season.

- Getting back to your question-- I DEFINITELY take Kyrie over Nash. With feckin' bells hangin' off (as the Irish say). But yeah, Jacques Vaughn, baby!

If Kyrie comes back, we are going to win the title

Yup.

Last years team + better bench + better D + less wear on Kyrie + guys recovering from last years injury.

we coudl potentially go like 15-1 or 14-2 in the playoffs too. it would be dominance

[Prokorov]

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?s=20

Need to play this kid more period.

He has played really well. His shot selection has been great. he has fit well with every lineup. 2 issues coming in with him where "chucker mentality, takes to many YOLO shots" and "poor shooter from 3, could be worse with deeper pro line". Not a great defender but that was never really a big concern i dont think.

-The first one hasnt been an issue. He has taken good shots, maybe even passed a few good ones up
-The second one... well.... 4-23 from three is not super encouraging, but its not like a broken Ben simmons shot situation either

The tweet also implies he scored well (43% FG). but in those 4 games he is 2-15 from three and scored on 40 points on 37 shots. So he still needs some work on his efficiency. That said, he also adds to our already insane amount of god level mid range shooting, which low key throws teams off especially in the playoffs. most teams want to force teams to take midrange. when we are hitting those collectively at like 55%, its not longer in the defenses favor.

He is clearly a boost offensively when he comes in, and doesnt play like a scared rookie. I think the issue is, where do his minutes come from when Joe Harris is back. we have like 6 weeks, so thats good because we get an extended look at came. but I'd assume when Harris comes back he is going to get 25 minutes or more and at worse just lose his starting spot to Mills and come off the bench eating Cams role.

Bruce Brown as is has lost minutes to Cam. And we already are going really small alot. Only other option is to give Cam some/all of Bembrys minutes, but Bembry has kind of been a really solid glue guy for our starting lineup.

good problem to have. and luckily we have over a month for Cam to show us what he can do

[Prokorov]

Honestly surprised a lot of my Knick coworkers aren't more pissed at Randle. KD schools him and gets a tech, but he had Harden defending him in the post after and he decides on a fadeaway.

I think Knicks fans have some stuff to feel good about. They forced james johnson to take the final shot on when KD/Harden were both on the floor. after they just hit a super clutch three to tie it... in our building.

If anything, just mad at robinson for not making johnson actually hit a shot.

[Prokorov]

You take take Kyrie in a heartbeat. What happens in the post season is the game gets decided by the stars, mostly due to teams learning every play you have, the inevitable fatigue that sets in, plus the game slowing down. The team with stars that can create their own shots has the edge, and we would have 3 of the best (Iam making an assumption Harden returns to his full capabilities - he will barring injury). I don't care how great a coach the other team has, a healthy big 3 would be our best option for dealing with a team like the Warriors. Outscore them, our defense is better this year anyways.

Kyrie has also consistently outplayed curry in the finals and been prone to hit enormous shots

[Prokorov]

Disregarding the advance coaching X and Os. If you were the coach last night, would you:

1) intentionally foul the Knicks up by 3 with 17 seconds left and no timeouts remaining?

I would, specifically because they had no timeouts and could not advance the ball. we also had significantly better FT shooters on the floor. But i'd be ok not fouling under the assumption we switch everything and dont allow a wide open look at a 3.

2) intentionally miss the 2nd of 2 ft up by one with 2.2 secs left to go?

No, too much can go wrong on the bounce and we were in the Bonus. dont want a cheap loose ball foul. Make the FT, set up your defense to make them score 94 feet with 2 seconds left.

[Prokorov]

I see that the irrational hate for Nash here continues to be overboard. Guess it's time to check out from RealGM Nets forum again.

What specific criticisms do you have a problem with.

I dont see any irrational hate, and several examples of botched coaching in very clear circumstances

[Prokorov]

2, 6, and 7 are inexcusable. No exaggeration to say any fan with a modicum of basketball knowledge wouldn't be worse than Nash at managing those things if you give them the resources that Nash has at his disposal.

I like Nash and he is clearly good at managing players' egos and morale, but our offense is simply ugly stuff considering we have 2 of the most unstoppable offensive forces in the league.

That final play was inexcusable. Nash should have known that they were going to double KD, and when they did there was no help at all coming and we got lucky that KD was able to find JJ and the fact that he was clutch at the line. It should never come to that

Reggie Miller was screaming all game for Durant and Harden to run the pick and roll. Instead the offense has everyone standing around watching them ISO into tough shots. Nash is capping the potential of this team.

I refuse to believe Nash can be this dumb, I think he's got the KD/Harden 2 man game as a break in case of emergency play that will be unleashed onto the league when the games start to matter.

The goal is for a championship and as frustrating as it is for us hardcore fans watching every game, these games ultimately don't really matter. I'm sure it's just part of Nash's plan to try every permutation of lineups out there so guys 1-12 all can handle pressure situation when it matters.

The problem with this is we saw nash coach in the playoffs and make these exact mistakes.

[MrDollarBills]

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?s=20

Need to play this kid more period.

He has played really well. His shot selection has been great. he has fit well with every lineup. 2 issues coming in with him where "chucker mentality, takes to many YOLO shots" and "poor shooter from 3, could be worse with deeper pro line". Not a great defender but that was never really a big concern i dont think.

-The first one hasnt been an issue. He has taken good shots, maybe even passed a few good ones up
-The second one... well.... 4-23 from three is not super encouraging, but its not like a broken Ben simmons shot situation either

The tweet also implies he scored well (43% FG). but in those 4 games he is 2-15 from three and scored on 40 points on 37 shots. So he still needs some work on his efficiency. That said, he also adds to our already insane amount of god level mid range shooting, which low key throws teams off especially in the playoffs. most teams want to force teams to take midrange. when we are hitting those collectively at like 55%, its not longer in the defenses favor.

He is clearly a boost offensively when he comes in, and doesnt play like a scared rookie. I think the issue is, where do his minutes come from when Joe Harris is back. we have like 6 weeks, so thats good because we get an extended look at came. but I'd assume when Harris comes back he is going to get 25 minutes or more and at worse just lose his starting spot to Mills and come off the bench eating Cams role.

Bruce Brown as is has lost minutes to Cam. And we already are going really small alot. Only other option is to give Cam some/all of Bembrys minutes, but Bembry has kind of been a really solid glue guy for our starting lineup.

good problem to have. and luckily we have over a month for Cam to show us what he can do

If Cam can become more consistent from outside the arc, he's got a bright future as a scoring roleplayer. I'm honestly surprised at how solid his shot selection is. When he gets into the mid range/paint he absolutely should look to score.

[MrDollarBills]

Honestly surprised a lot of my Knick coworkers aren't more pissed at Randle. KD schools him and gets a tech, but he had Harden defending him in the post after and he decides on a fadeaway.

I think Knicks fans have some stuff to feel good about. They forced james johnson to take the final shot on when KD/Harden were both on the floor. after they just hit a super clutch three to tie it... in our building.

If anything, just mad at robinson for not making johnson actually hit a shot.

The Knicks took an uppercut to the jaw in the 3rd and stayed with it. Their team has nothing to be ashamed of.

It's insane to me that the defense called for us to NOT SWITCH on three point defense in that situation? There is no way a good three point shooter like Fournier should be wide open there.

We got very lucky.

[GTR11]

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?s=20

Need to play this kid more period.

He has played really well. His shot selection has been great. he has fit well with every lineup. 2 issues coming in with him where "chucker mentality, takes to many YOLO shots" and "poor shooter from 3, could be worse with deeper pro line". Not a great defender but that was never really a big concern i dont think.

-The first one hasnt been an issue. He has taken good shots, maybe even passed a few good ones up
-The second one... well.... 4-23 from three is not super encouraging, but its not like a broken Ben simmons shot situation either

The tweet also implies he scored well (43% FG). but in those 4 games he is 2-15 from three and scored on 40 points on 37 shots. So he still needs some work on his efficiency. That said, he also adds to our already insane amount of god level mid range shooting, which low key throws teams off especially in the playoffs. most teams want to force teams to take midrange. when we are hitting those collectively at like 55%, its not longer in the defenses favor.

He is clearly a boost offensively when he comes in, and doesnt play like a scared rookie. I think the issue is, where do his minutes come from when Joe Harris is back. we have like 6 weeks, so thats good because we get an extended look at came. but I'd assume when Harris comes back he is going to get 25 minutes or more and at worse just lose his starting spot to Mills and come off the bench eating Cams role.

Bruce Brown as is has lost minutes to Cam. And we already are going really small alot. Only other option is to give Cam some/all of Bembrys minutes, but Bembry has kind of been a really solid glue guy for our starting lineup.

good problem to have. and luckily we have over a month for Cam to show us what he can do

If Cam can become more consistent from outside the arc, he's got a bright future as a scoring roleplayer. I'm honestly surprised at how solid his shot selection is. When he gets into the mid range/paint he absolutely should look to score.

He should be having green light to be offensive monster that he is with 2nd unit, no reason not to. Playing Harden and KD 38 min is asinine.

Only thing that I monitor is his floor vision. Can he see the way defense Playing is a key imo.