What would be the effect of putting prime Shaq in the modern era?

[sikma42]

I don't think it changes too much. Shaq would be less dominant because teams would front the post to limit his possessions, and they'd force him to defend the spread pick-and-roll all game long.

It's really hard to feed the low post today. I'm not sure if Shaq would even be as impactful as Embiid. Embiid can only maintain a 30% Usage because he takes 55% of his shots from outside 10 feet, since he happens to be a fantastic shooter.

The only example I can think of of a pure low post player in today's game is Valanciunas, who took 80% of his FGA's from inside 10 feet last year, with impressive efficiency. But Valanciunas only managed a USG% of just 22.4 even though he was, by far, the most effective scoring option for Memphis. Shaq would be even more efficient than JV to be sure, but would it be possible to get his usage rate up much more?

Ultimately, I don't think Shaq would warp today's game like he did in his era. The only real change would be that teams would be more likely to keep an extra big on the roster with 6 fouls to give. It would probably allow the Alex Len tier guys to last a bit longer in this league and earn a bit more money.

Laughing at teams trying to front Shaq and how many alley oop dunks that would lead to.

The rules are different now.

In Shaq's era, if you fronted him, it merely opened the pathway for a lob. That was because they had defensive rules requiring you to play man-to-man defense. You could not leave your man to play help defense unless your were doubling the ball. Today, there are no illegal defense rules (except the 3 second rule). Teams could front Shaq and have a man on the weakside hedge toward the paint to prevent the lob.

There's a reason why nobody posts up anymore. It's not merely that big men decided to stop practicing low post moves. It's that it's very difficult to get an opportunity to post up at all today.

Its not that easy to front even with the new rules. Shaq will just push you up the lane. If he has effectively drawn a double team off ball in the paint, which is what it would take to stop him from getting a touch ---> then he has officially become the most dominant player in the league.

[hoosierdaddy34]

I don't think it changes too much. Shaq would be less dominant because teams would front the post to limit his possessions, and they'd force him to defend the spread pick-and-roll all game long.

It's really hard to feed the low post today. I'm not sure if Shaq would even be as impactful as Embiid. Embiid can only maintain a 30% Usage because he takes 55% of his shots from outside 10 feet, since he happens to be a fantastic shooter.

The only example I can think of of a pure low post player in today's game is Valanciunas, who took 80% of his FGA's from inside 10 feet last year, with impressive efficiency. But Valanciunas only managed a USG% of just 22.4 even though he was, by far, the most effective scoring option for Memphis. Shaq would be even more efficient than JV to be sure, but would it be possible to get his usage rate up much more?

Ultimately, I don't think Shaq would warp today's game like he did in his era. The only real change would be that teams would be more likely to keep an extra big on the roster with 6 fouls to give. It would probably allow the Alex Len tier guys to last a bit longer in this league and earn a bit more money.

Laughing at teams trying to front Shaq and how many alley oop dunks that would lead to.

The rules are different now.

In Shaq's era, if you fronted him, it merely opened the pathway for a lob. That was because they had defensive rules requiring you to play man-to-man defense. You could not leave your man to play help defense unless your were doubling the ball. Today, there are no illegal defense rules (except the 3 second rule). Teams could front Shaq and have a man on the weakside hedge toward the paint to prevent the lob.

There's a reason why nobody posts up anymore. It's not merely that big men decided to stop practicing low post moves. It's that it's very difficult to get an opportunity to post up at all today.

So your argument against Shaq having an major impact is that the other team is going to completely change the way they play defense to key on him to try and stop (and still only be marginally effective doing it) him? Besides that weird logic, teans used to triple team him…a 6’8 dude hedging on his backside isn’t going to mean much to him. He’s still going over and through that dude.

Secondly…you could just run PNR with Shaq all day as well and it would be unstoppable.

Heck Prime Shaq was quick enough and a good enough ball handler that you could just isolate him on most bigs 14 feet out and it would be over. Dribble left, drop step right, baby hook. You think Gobert is stopping that? Get out of here.

And teams can’t hold him, grab, shove from getting to his spots?

It’s hilarious these dudes didn’t watch Shaq, he wasn’t a one trick pony. But he was unstoppable at the rim. He’d average 35 a game on close 70% from the field today.

[Bornstellar]

I feel like if you think Shaq in today's league wouldn't be absolutely dominant, you probably didn't watch him regularly in his prime (not trying to be insulting or anything, just saying). This man routinely was the focus of the entire defense in the golden era of NBA bigs when physical defense was allowed and he shat on pretty much everyone. You really think some 6'8 dudes fronting him in the post are going to stop him? Please

[Big J]

He'd feast.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

Simple... Run four shooters with Shaq and you force a decision to double him or stay home... I say... Good Luck and it's BBQ chicken.

[primecougar]

I hate the "shaq would struggle in pnr". Jokic is literally mvp and shaq is a better and more agile defender than him.
Shaq would change the game today. If he has anh shooters around him. It would be a wrap

[DonaldSanders]

Young Shaq would be worth more, Prime about the same, middle aged Shaq less (31 or older), old Shaq retires early at say 35.

Young Shaq was multi-talented and mobile. As Shaq aged his mobility took a huge hit which would really hurt on defense. I don't think offense is where I'd be worried -- although he wasn't a mid range threat at all, you can't single cover him which creates one of the big keys in the modern era -- Gravity! Sure if someone has to help off their man to cover Shaq, guess what? Shaq's passing was decent. Once he got to LA his assists went up and he was willing to pass out of doubles. Shaq would force teams to decide whether to give up high % 2s to him or open 3's.

Back when Shaq played he created a lot of open shots but they were often long 2's. The game changing would also benefit his offense in that his passing goes up in value. It'd be harder to put up huge post numbers but that would mean guys are open.

The issue is really how his defense would be having to be more mobile, that's why I feel like he'd decline faster with age. Maybe he takes care of himself better in a modern era, but either way father time slowed Shaq down.

[dhsilv2]

It's a copycat league. If Shaq was dominating (and he would), then you'd see others trying to mimic.

Who was trying to copy cat Shaq without having shaq?

Not mimic Shaq, but mimic the idea of building with a center. Shaq played in an era where there were plenty of HOF centers so it wasn't this groundbreaking thing. That said, obviously, plenty of big men were drafted #1 after Shaq came in the league (Duncan, Olawakandi, Ming, Dwight, Bogut, Oden). In today's league, I'm not sure how many of those guys outside of Duncan would be a consensus 1st overall pick in a draft.

Dwight and Ming still go 1 imo. And hell Wiseman just went first so lets not act like the league isn't still after big men, but they're RARE to find. Shaq's are just not possible.

But that said, you generally know if you got a big man who you can run an offense through or not. And right now we have an abundance of smalls and wings who can run an offense. Nobody is looking for the poor man's giannis right now with a 1st pick. Sure some teams want to play like Curry in a way, but even then who's running a motion offense with shooters and a big moving the ball? How many guys like KD / Leonard / CP3 are there making a living on mid range shots?

You copy ideas, concepts, and styles that you can copy. You don't copy unicorns.

[lakerz12]

40/20/4

[dhsilv2]

Young Shaq would be worth more, Prime about the same, middle aged Shaq less (31 or older), old Shaq retires early at say 35.

Young Shaq was multi-talented and mobile. As Shaq aged his mobility took a huge hit which would really hurt on defense. I don't think offense is where I'd be worried -- although he wasn't a mid range threat at all, you can't single cover him which creates one of the big keys in the modern era -- Gravity! Sure if someone has to help off their man to cover Shaq, guess what? Shaq's passing was decent. Once he got to LA his assists went up and he was willing to pass out of doubles. Shaq would force teams to decide whether to give up high % 2s to him or open 3's.

Back when Shaq played he created a lot of open shots but they were often long 2's. The game changing would also benefit his offense in that his passing goes up in value. It'd be harder to put up huge post numbers but that would mean guys are open.

The issue is really how his defense would be having to be more mobile, that's why I feel like he'd decline faster with age. Maybe he takes care of himself better in a modern era, but either way father time slowed Shaq down.

One thing is for sure...shaq would have been in better shape OR been injured playing modern defense. The amount of running and movement today vs then is staggering. For all the talk about pace and how that impacts a player's energy or hand check...the distance a player runs today I'd be willing to bet is 20-40% more than it was 20 years ago.

But I mean shaq was shaq...he has weaknesses that would be exploited differently today. Lack of a jumper...other things like that would be issues. Obviously shooters around him would be more deadly...though good lord that Magic team was basically a team of sharp shooters relative to the league at the time. It would be interesting to have seen then or now Shaq on an actual bad team.

Bottom line, like most mega stars...era will change HOW they play, it will change WHERE they play....but they'd dominate in any era...unless we're talking like 50's players.

[DroseReturnChi]

he would avg 40ppg against steph.

[dhsilv2]

40/20/4

All 3 of these numbers are insane.

1. Nobody is going to score 40 a game the way the league is setup. Shaq would be a 34-35 minute a game guy. He's not getting 40 in that time. He's also getting doubled and not getting those points.Zones are so much better today...

2. Rebounding is down for big men, not up. 3's lead to more long rebounds and there's a focus on getting back on defense vs chasing offensive boards.

3. See the first section...there's no way shaq only gets 4 assists a game. He'd get at least 5 if not 6-7-8...he'd be killing teams with his passing out of doubles.

(28-32)/(12-15)/(6-8) seems like a much more reasonable stat line which would be insane and have him in the MVP discussion just like then.

[Black Jack]

Shaq would be less valuable. PnR on D, hack-a-shaq would be spammed more, and also his offensive habit of just shoving guys around would result in more foul calls. Teams who can trot out 5 shooters would PnR him mercilessly.

Still great but not quite the world breaker he was.

[Blacksheep25]

Shaq would be less valuable. PnR on D, hack-a-shaq would be spammed more, and also his offensive habit of just shoving guys around would result in more foul calls. Teams who can trot out 5 shooters would PnR him mercilessly.

Still great but not quite the world breaker he was.

This seems fairly obvious. He’d score more, but be far less valuable than he was in his time.

[Edrees]

I don't think it changes too much. Shaq would be less dominant because teams would front the post to limit his possessions, and they'd force him to defend the spread pick-and-roll all game long.

It's really hard to feed the low post today. I'm not sure if Shaq would even be as impactful as Embiid. Embiid can only maintain a 30% Usage because he takes 55% of his shots from outside 10 feet, since he happens to be a fantastic shooter.

The only example I can think of of a pure low post player in today's game is Valanciunas, who took 80% of his FGA's from inside 10 feet last year, with impressive efficiency. But Valanciunas only managed a USG% of just 22.4 even though he was, by far, the most effective scoring option for Memphis. Shaq would be even more efficient than JV to be sure, but would it be possible to get his usage rate up much more?

Ultimately, I don't think Shaq would warp today's game like he did in his era. The only real change would be that teams would be more likely to keep an extra big on the roster with 6 fouls to give. It would probably allow the Alex Len tier guys to last a bit longer in this league and earn a bit more money.

Laughing at teams trying to front Shaq and how many alley oop dunks that would lead to.

The rules are different now.

In Shaq's era, if you fronted him, it merely opened the pathway for a lob. That was because they had defensive rules requiring you to play man-to-man defense. You could not leave your man to play help defense unless your were doubling the ball. Today, there are no illegal defense rules (except the 3 second rule). Teams could front Shaq and have a man on the weakside hedge toward the paint to prevent the lob.

There's a reason why nobody posts up anymore. It's not merely that big men decided to stop practicing low post moves. It's that it's very difficult to get an opportunity to post up at all today.

Shaq was still dominating even when there was no illegal defense rules. It was made official in 2001-2002, his numbers are just as dominant those year and two of his championships and 3 finals appearances came after the change. But they didn't really call it much even the year prior, as they had already announced the rule change would come, so they probably let people kind of slowly get used to the fact that it wont be called. I can't remember anytime a ref called teams for illegal defense during their 3peat when he got doubled. Shaq was routinely fronted in the way that you describe and it didn't slow him down.

Basically what you say is logical in theory, but it didn't actually pan out because even two people (one person as man D and another helping) wasn't enough to stop him from actual getting a lob. One particular reason for this is because people were intimidated by him, so even though they could do something, they didn't give it their all. You could see they'd try it once or twice and get so abused they did not put that effort all game. It worked sometimes, but with enough ball movement (which is what the triangle offense did) you tire guys out and get those kind of plays anyway despite the hedging on the weak side. A lot of players would pick up fouls trying to stop those lobs as help defenders. I don't see how that would change today. People would even be less inclined to risk contact with that beast of a body.

[lakerz12]

40/20/4

All 3 of these numbers are insane.

1. Nobody is going to score 40 a game the way the league is setup. Shaq would be a 34-35 minute a game guy. He's not getting 40 in that time. He's also getting doubled and not getting those points.Zones are so much better today...

2. Rebounding is down for big men, not up. 3's lead to more long rebounds and there's a focus on getting back on defense vs chasing offensive boards.

3. See the first section...there's no way shaq only gets 4 assists a game. He'd get at least 5 if not 6-7-8...he'd be killing teams with his passing out of doubles.

(28-32)/(12-15)/(6-8) seems like a much more reasonable stat line which would be insane and have him in the MVP discussion just like then.

39/19/4 at worst.

I'm referring to blocks, not assists!

[raptor jesus]

He would be the most dominant player in the league. Teams would be burning draft picks on 7-foot stiffs again just to keep him from dunking every time down the floor. Also, prime Shaq wasn't the defensive liability that some here seem to think he was. He could be quite nimble.

[WESCO]

If he played last season he'd get 20 FTS a game.

This year probably 4...

[dhsilv2]

40/20/4

All 3 of these numbers are insane.

1. Nobody is going to score 40 a game the way the league is setup. Shaq would be a 34-35 minute a game guy. He's not getting 40 in that time. He's also getting doubled and not getting those points.Zones are so much better today...

2. Rebounding is down for big men, not up. 3's lead to more long rebounds and there's a focus on getting back on defense vs chasing offensive boards.

3. See the first section...there's no way shaq only gets 4 assists a game. He'd get at least 5 if not 6-7-8...he'd be killing teams with his passing out of doubles.

(28-32)/(12-15)/(6-8) seems like a much more reasonable stat line which would be insane and have him in the MVP discussion just like then.

39/19/4 at worst.

I'm referring to blocks, not assists!

If shaq gets those stats...he'd not make the playoffs.

[Sothron]

There's a reason why nobody posts up anymore. It's not merely that big men decided to stop practicing low post moves.

I'd argue to an extent it is exactly that. Players are being taught that to prioritize three-point shooting and stand behind the arc to create spacing.

I agree with this. College allowed zone far longer than the NBA did and you still had low post scoring. It isn't rocket science to feed a low post player even if they are being fronted. You can't front a guy all game long and have someone hedge over on the weak side all game long either. Shaq would get his touches.

I wouldn't worry about Shaq on offense. It is his defense that I think would be so bad. Shaq never could guard the pick and roll or switch effectively. Someone like Trae or Curry would eat him alive every possession.