Anthony Edwards is going to be a star

[life_saver]

One thing to keep in mind re-Ant is that he started playing basketball seriously much later in his life than a typical American NBA player..I remember reading somewhere (or a pod) that he only started training for basketball seriously when he was 13 years old. Until then, he was more mostly focused on football and apparently was already one of the best running backs in youth football.

[Quentin]

I'll say this about Edwards, his efficiency would go way up if he got any respect from the refs. He drives a ton with very little foul calls. And yes, he is getting fouled on replays and he could also finish better after contact.

Among back court players he is 3rd in attempts in the restricted area at 6.2 (Morant 6.7 and Westbrook 6.7)

Yet Edwards is only shooting 3.5 FT's per game (Morant 5.9 and Westbrook 5.8)

[magicman1978]

Sure. Couldn't be anything logical right? You aren't on the radar in terms of rivalry, I'm just giving my opinion on it. Doesnt help that I have no interest in your team opposed to MIN, and each time we see LaMelo, he either does poorly or cedes control to someone else (Bridges and Martin won the game, with an assist from Oubre by getting ejected)

I think Ant is a better player on a worse team - or at least, worse supporting cast - who plays better defense (especially on-ball). They have roughly the same efficiency, but Melo gets the metrics boost for being the team's primary ballhandler. But I'll absolutely take the elite direction-changing athlete with the better pull-up 3pt shot if I'm building a team now. Way harder to find that kind of player off-ball than lead guards.

Your first paragraph makes me think you haven't been watching Melo much at all. Melo is easily the Hornets best player - I don't think you can say the same for Ant. I don't think the Hornet's cast is that much better (metrics grade them out pretty evenly). Also, Melo shoots 35.4% on 3.3 pull up 3s per game vs 34.3% on 4.6 for Ant. Catch and shoot - Melo is 41.8% on 3.8 shot per game vs 35.6% for Ant on 4.1 per game. I don't see any advantage for Ant there.

Ant definitely has the higher ceiling to me, but I don't believe he's at Melo's level right now (and the impact metrics don't either).

Definitely not saying that Melo isn't their best player, I was clearly stating what happened when we've played the Hornets this year.

I missed Melo in the rankings on that, yes he's got the edge there. But I do disagree that the Hornets arent better, and metrics do agree with me there. And even if not, just on paper.. we're talking about Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, Mikal Bridges, PJ Washington, Martin.. all above or around positive net ratings. The lowest rated player they have who has 500 minutes this year is Kelly Oubre, and he's not terrible (-1.7 BPM). Meanwhile the Wolves have two heavy minutes players with way, way worse numbers: McDaniels (-5.2) and Beasley (-3.1). Ant has the best player next to him (KAT) but also has to deal with a guy like DLo running the point (no idea how he's a positive OBPM with .511 TS% but player tracking *hates* him)

I dont think its particularly close, I'd much rather have the rest of the Hornets roster than the Wolves if I wanted to win now. I actually really like the Hornets roster, aside from their top draft pick this season and Kelly Oubre. The Wolves - who I've watched for 1.5 years now and really root for - have a really poorly put together roster by a deservedly fired GM. That said, if Vanderbilt ever becomes tradeable... give the W's a call

If you're going to use BPM, let's use its aggregate VORP - the Wolves Cast has a VORP of 1.5 and Hornets 1.7. Now looking at someone like Cody Martin with 1.4bpm vs Beasley at -3.2bpm. Do we really think Martin is a significantly better player than Beasley or could Beasley just be off to a bad start. That's pretty much the difference right now in their VORP. I'll give you McDaniels, I have no idea why he's playing so much. His brother Jalen is better, but he's a huge negative with LaMelo off the floor as well. Overall, the Hornets are better - but it's not such a significant difference that it should impact Ant's and LaMelo's play/impact drastically.

Positionally, LaMelo also ranks much higher at the PG position based on metrics than Ant does at either SG or SF - i.e., using impact metrics (BPA, RAPTOR, etc.), it would be harder to replace LaMelo's impact than it would be to replace Ant's. Now, of course it's early in the season here and impact metrics are not going to tell us everything - but they do lean significantly in Lamelo's favor.

I think Ant's got a higher ceiling and may be better than LaMelo soon, but I think LaMelo's got the edge right now because he's just got a better overall feel for the game where I feel like Ant is still figuring things out.

[FNQ]

Your first paragraph makes me think you haven't been watching Melo much at all. Melo is easily the Hornets best player - I don't think you can say the same for Ant. I don't think the Hornet's cast is that much better (metrics grade them out pretty evenly). Also, Melo shoots 35.4% on 3.3 pull up 3s per game vs 34.3% on 4.6 for Ant. Catch and shoot - Melo is 41.8% on 3.8 shot per game vs 35.6% for Ant on 4.1 per game. I don't see any advantage for Ant there.

Ant definitely has the higher ceiling to me, but I don't believe he's at Melo's level right now (and the impact metrics don't either).

Definitely not saying that Melo isn't their best player, I was clearly stating what happened when we've played the Hornets this year.

I missed Melo in the rankings on that, yes he's got the edge there. But I do disagree that the Hornets arent better, and metrics do agree with me there. And even if not, just on paper.. we're talking about Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, Mikal Bridges, PJ Washington, Martin.. all above or around positive net ratings. The lowest rated player they have who has 500 minutes this year is Kelly Oubre, and he's not terrible (-1.7 BPM). Meanwhile the Wolves have two heavy minutes players with way, way worse numbers: McDaniels (-5.2) and Beasley (-3.1). Ant has the best player next to him (KAT) but also has to deal with a guy like DLo running the point (no idea how he's a positive OBPM with .511 TS% but player tracking *hates* him)

I dont think its particularly close, I'd much rather have the rest of the Hornets roster than the Wolves if I wanted to win now. I actually really like the Hornets roster, aside from their top draft pick this season and Kelly Oubre. The Wolves - who I've watched for 1.5 years now and really root for - have a really poorly put together roster by a deservedly fired GM. That said, if Vanderbilt ever becomes tradeable... give the W's a call

If you're going to use BPM, let's use its aggregate VORP - the Wolves Cast has a VORP of 1.5 and Hornets 1.7. Now looking at someone like Cody Martin with 1.4bpm vs Beasley at -3.2bpm. Do we really think Martin is a significantly better player than Beasley or could Beasley just be off to a bad start. That's pretty much the difference right now in their VORP. I'll give you McDaniels, I have no idea why he's playing so much. His brother Jalen is better, but he's a huge negative with LaMelo off the floor as well. Overall, the Hornets are better - but it's not such a significant difference that it should impact Ant's and LaMelo's play/impact drastically.

Positionally, LaMelo also ranks much higher at the PG position based on metrics than Ant does at either SG or SF - i.e., using impact metrics (BPA, RAPTOR, etc.), it would be harder to replace LaMelo's impact than it would be to replace Ant's. Now, of course it's early in the season here and impact metrics are not going to tell us everything - but they do lean significantly in Lamelo's favor.

I think Ant's got a higher ceiling and may be better than LaMelo soon, but I think LaMelo's got the edge right now because he's just got a better overall feel for the game where I feel like Ant is still figuring things out.

I think if we're looking at overall career, the waters do become more muddied. However if I think you evaluated them all just based on general basketball knowledge, I'd still favor the Hornets, but that might also be because I've watched the Wolves so much the past year or so and am more familiar with their flaws.. but to me, a supporting case of Hayward/Rozier/Bridges and the like trumps KAT/DLo and the rest. But I also have a very low viewing of DLo and Beasley (I do think those numbers are pretty accurate this year, he's not good, though the shooting has to turn around a bit) so I dont blame anyone who'd go the other direction

And FWIW I do believe Martin's much better than Beasley, I dunno if I'd give it the 5 point gap that BPM does, and I have no idea how to translate that into a real life value, but I wouldnt hesitate if asked who I'd prefer, even if he doesnt shoot 47% from 3 all year

[FNQ]

Wow. Edwards is beating Poole in just about every category including steals and blocks. Plus he's playing against starters, not backups. He's also not even the number 1 or 2 option on this team most of the time. Edwards is also completely different physically. You bringing up this comparison wreaks of homerism. Good job.

The Wolves fans who keep thinking its a comparison about the future really need to understand the context.

Poole is starting too, and yes, he's the #2 option behind Curry. He hasn't been played a minute with Klay Thompson.

Poole was cited to show that a player who has higher efficiency and takes his shots from the same areas is not automatically considered a future #1 despite having 1 extra year of experience. Understand the argument first.. please. I would know what it is, I'm the one who invoked it

That's pretty disingenuous considering the post you're quoting didn't even include any future projections... and only used current details. Whether you disagree with the take or not is irrelevant at this point since you already moved the goalposts.

I've been pretty clear what the discussion was about, people's ability to follow it or not isn't really on me. I get that fans always get irrational about their prize future players, especially franchises that really need one, but I do know what the conversation is about. I initiated it. And so correcting its direction isnt moving the goalposts, its.. correction the direction.

But yea my first line was more in general, the rest of what I said was in direct response to incorrect things assumed. I guess I should have just mentioned that using counting numbers when one plays 20% more minutes than the other isn't a great way to compare players either, that would have fit better

[SUPERVILLAIN]

[Yuri Vaultin]

Don't go overdoing it jerking yourself off with one hand and patting yourself on the back with the other.

[Clav]

Don't go overdoing it jerking yourself off with one hand and patting yourself on the back with the other.

Auto-Erotic-Gratification

[WolfAddict]

Don't go overdoing it jerking yourself off with one hand and patting yourself on the back with the other.

Hey! You can tell me what to do, or how to do it, but not both...