PG - oh no, we suck again

[TerrenceClarke]

@Spurs
@Pacers
@Raptors
Bucks
Warriors

11-16 coming up!

[KnickMan]

The Bulls have 2 All-Star guards....one of which the Knicks could have signed. Yet we're stuck with Fournier, racking up losses and playing poor defense.

Knicks haven't had an all star guard since Allan Houston n Spree.

Is getting an All-star level guard really 18 years type difficulty level? Really?

THIS. I begging for this team to sign Derozan AND Ball but if we could signed at least one of them I would been satisfied. Instead Perry goes the mediocre route and gets damaged goods and a decent back up (paying him starter money). Perry should have been fired along with Mills and if it wasn't apparent before, it should be now.

Why do we keep ignoring Perry wanted DeRozan and was overruled?

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it that truly was the case, and I don't know if it is, then I take it back. Bottom line is I definitely wanted him two. Everyone gets so caught up in the 3 point shot that they forget that an efficient midrange scorer can just as effective. (Look at Durant, Leonard and so many others; the vast majority of their points is in the mid range.) Derozan would have been absolutely perfect on the Knicks and he now also shooting better from the 3 point line. He is exactly what we needed RJ to become.

[KnickMan]

The Knicks never addressed the PG problem in the offseason and that was a huge red flag. Then, they tried to sell Kemba to us like he wasn't just let go and bought out by a team.

The Knicks FO never meant to compete this year. They certainly didn't put in the pieces for it. Our main pieces last year got exposed in the playoffs and we traded for Fournier and got Kemba, who were both horrible in the postseason.

Never made a big splash or show any creativity to finally get us that playmaker. Knicks management didn't even go all in to compete. They keep playing it safe for the sake of flexibility.

Just get us that PG.

Same can be said for the draft. We didn't appear to make any serious effort to move up and snag any of the top tier talent. Look at Chris Duarte and what he is doing. He was one of the players a lot of guys talked about and would have been a great fit. Don't get me wrong, I like Grimes and McBride (Sims is looking like a steal), but I think they got a little lucky that those guys were still there.

[robillionaire]

The Knicks never addressed the PG problem in the offseason and that was a huge red flag. Then, they tried to sell Kemba to us like he wasn't just let go and bought out by a team.

The Knicks FO never meant to compete this year. They certainly didn't put in the pieces for it. Our main pieces last year got exposed in the playoffs and we traded for Fournier and got Kemba, who were both horrible in the postseason.

Never made a big splash or show any creativity to finally get us that playmaker. Knicks management didn't even go all in to compete. They keep playing it safe for the sake of flexibility.

Just get us that PG.

Same can be said for the draft. We didn't appear to make any serious effort to move up and snag any of the top tier talent. Look at Chris Duarte and what he is doing. He was one of the players a lot of guys talked about and would have been a great fit. Don't get me wrong, I like Grimes and McBride (Sims is looking like a steal), but I think they got a little lucky that those guys were still there.

Well Duarte is also 24.5 y/o and probably a complete product. In fact I checked his stats to see what he’s doing and he’s shooting 34.9% from 3 and all his BPM stats are negative, personally I am not impressed by it

Grimes is 3 years younger and is shooting 41.2% from 3 with a much higher ts% it’s a much smaller sample size but maybe we should see what we have there

[Spree2Houston]

I liked the Grimes and McBride picks. I still don’t agree with trading the 19th pick. We traded that pick to gain cap space which resulted in Evan Fournier. We were better off drafting someone at 19 . Also, seeing that all 3 of our Centers still can’t hit a jumpshot, we could’ve drafted Kai Jones and developed him into a stretch 5. Another huge blunder by Perry

[robillionaire]

I liked the Grimes and McBride picks. I still don’t agree with trading the 19th pick. We traded that pick to gain cap space which resulted in Evan Fournier. We were better off drafting someone at 19 . Also, seeing that all 3 of our Centers still can’t hit a jumpshot, we could’ve drafted Kai Jones and developed him into a stretch 5. Another huge blunder by Perry

Kai Jones doesn’t even play in Charlotte so idk why people think he’s going to be good, Grimes has some potential and we also got a Hornets future 1st I’m good with what they did

[whocares1]

Watch on YouTube

Imagine if Thibs said that about Ben Simmons. He’d probably never play a game again.

[TerrenceClarke]

I liked the Grimes and McBride picks. I still don’t agree with trading the 19th pick. We traded that pick to gain cap space which resulted in Evan Fournier. We were better off drafting someone at 19 . Also, seeing that all 3 of our Centers still can’t hit a jumpshot, we could’ve drafted Kai Jones and developed him into a stretch 5. Another huge blunder by Perry

Kai Jones doesn’t even play in Charlotte so idk why people think he’s going to be good, Grimes has some potential and we also got a Hornets future 1st I’m good with what they did

By that logic none of the players on the Knicks drafted will be good cause they hardly play or dont play at all. Charlotte has alot of big men in front of him. Having Kai Jones on the roster isn't about today, its about tomo. There is isn't a center on the roster who has the speed, and skill set of Kai Jones. It was stupid to punt on Kai Jones, and Sims is not in the class as a player or defender.

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

I liked the Grimes and McBride picks. I still don’t agree with trading the 19th pick. We traded that pick to gain cap space which resulted in Evan Fournier. We were better off drafting someone at 19 . Also, seeing that all 3 of our Centers still can’t hit a jumpshot, we could’ve drafted Kai Jones and developed him into a stretch 5. Another huge blunder by Perry

Kai Jones doesn’t even play in Charlotte so idk why people think he’s going to be good, Grimes has some potential and we also got a Hornets future 1st I’m good with what they did

By that logic none of the players on the Knicks drafted will be good cause they hardly play or dont play at all. Charlotte has alot of big men in front of him. Having Kai Jones on the roster isn't about today, its about tomo. There is isn't a center on the roster who has the speed, and skill set of Kai Jones. It was stupid to punt on Kai Jones, and Sims is not in the class as a player or defender.

Watch on YouTube

i figure he’s so good he’d be playing or getting minutes over the likes of Nick Richards and not in the g league

And you’re right it’s not about today it’s about tomorrow which is why we don’t need him today and “tomorrow” can draft someone better with their pick (if they go that route)

[god shammgod]

The Bulls have 2 All-Star guards....one of which the Knicks could have signed. Yet we're stuck with Fournier, racking up losses and playing poor defense.

Knicks haven't had an all star guard since Allan Houston n Spree.

Is getting an All-star level guard really 18 years type difficulty level? Really?

THIS. I begging for this team to sign Derozan AND Ball but if we could signed at least one of them I would been satisfied. Instead Perry goes the mediocre route and gets damaged goods and a decent back up (paying him starter money). Perry should have been fired along with Mills and if it wasn't apparent before, it should be now.

Why do we keep ignoring Perry wanted DeRozan and was overruled?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

because this way we can pretend that leon rose is not ultimately responsible for everything that's happened, which of course he is, and we can cling to the hope that the current management is not hopeless like all the groups before them.

[TerrenceClarke]

Kai Jones doesn’t even play in Charlotte so idk why people think he’s going to be good, Grimes has some potential and we also got a Hornets future 1st I’m good with what they did

By that logic none of the players on the Knicks drafted will be good cause they hardly play or dont play at all. Charlotte has alot of big men in front of him. Having Kai Jones on the roster isn't about today, its about tomo. There is isn't a center on the roster who has the speed, and skill set of Kai Jones. It was stupid to punt on Kai Jones, and Sims is not in the class as a player or defender.

Watch on YouTube

i figure he’s so good he’d be playing or getting minutes over the likes of Nick Richards and not in the g league

And you’re right it’s not about today it’s about tomorrow which is why we don’t need him today and “tomorrow” can draft someone better with their pick (if they go that route)

Grimes has potential but couldn't crack the rotation until player injuries or a player being removed. Deuce looks very high level and he dont even play. So your point is still moot on him "not playing" . Its common that talented players dont get immediate burn on positions that are deep in front of them. Anfernee Simons was a high level prospect from the rip but he didnt play on the blazers initally because of the guard depth in front of him. It happens all over the NBA. The reality is the Knicks were dumb to punt on Kai Jones, just like they was dumb on alot of the moves in FA. Its pretty obvious the Knicks FO is not that good, so them passing on Kai Jones is more indicative of their ability and not his.

[robillionaire]

By that logic none of the players on the Knicks drafted will be good cause they hardly play or dont play at all. Charlotte has alot of big men in front of him. Having Kai Jones on the roster isn't about today, its about tomo. There is isn't a center on the roster who has the speed, and skill set of Kai Jones. It was stupid to punt on Kai Jones, and Sims is not in the class as a player or defender.

Watch on YouTube

i figure he’s so good he’d be playing or getting minutes over the likes of Nick Richards and not in the g league

And you’re right it’s not about today it’s about tomorrow which is why we don’t need him today and “tomorrow” can draft someone better with their pick (if they go that route)

Grimes has potential but couldn't crack the rotation until player injuries or a player being removed. Deuce looks very high level and he dont even play. So your point is still moot on him "not playing" . Its common that talented players dont get immediate burn on positions that are deep in front of them. Anfernee Simons was a high level prospect from the rip but he didnt play on the blazers initally because of the guard depth in front of him. It happens all over the NBA. The reality is the Knicks were dumb to punt on Kai Jones, just like they was dumb on alot of the moves in FA. Its pretty obvious the Knicks FO is not that good, so them passing on Kai Jones is more indicative of their ability and not his.

I’m just saying he’s literally done nothing in the NBA, can we just wait until he actually does something before proclaiming it it was a mistake, this is sounding just like the guy who keeps saying we should have kept Oturu

[Gravy]

I wish I could and1 this more than once. I am disappointed too in his recent showings. but damn his shot will fall again and his defense and rebounding are still good. he can get to rim almost every time he wants, I don't know why the **** we are just using him as a spot up shooter right now while he is strugglin from outside.
but K-Dot you are spot on and most of the users in here don't deserve a good knicks team in their lifetime. this is so bad.

very good second season -> "RJ !!!!!"
good preseason and start to this season "RJ BETTER THAN MORANT, HERRO and so on...!!!!"
a bad 10 game stretch "he is the ultimate bust, he's never going to be good !!!"

Saying he SUCKS might be too much, but it's obvious he's a totally ordinary player, at best. That's the way it goes sometimes.

thats the opinion of most posters now. look at their opinions from 5 weeks ago, today:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2133720

That I am the captain now meme is bad luck, first KP, then Frank, now RJ

[robillionaire]

By that logic none of the players on the Knicks drafted will be good cause they hardly play or dont play at all. Charlotte has alot of big men in front of him. Having Kai Jones on the roster isn't about today, its about tomo. There is isn't a center on the roster who has the speed, and skill set of Kai Jones. It was stupid to punt on Kai Jones, and Sims is not in the class as a player or defender.

Watch on YouTube

i figure he’s so good he’d be playing or getting minutes over the likes of Nick Richards and not in the g league

And you’re right it’s not about today it’s about tomorrow which is why we don’t need him today and “tomorrow” can draft someone better with their pick (if they go that route)

Grimes has potential but couldn't crack the rotation until player injuries or a player being removed. Deuce looks very high level and he dont even play. So your point is still moot on him "not playing" . Its common that talented players dont get immediate burn on positions that are deep in front of them. Anfernee Simons was a high level prospect from the rip but he didnt play on the blazers initally because of the guard depth in front of him. It happens all over the NBA. The reality is the Knicks were dumb to punt on Kai Jones, just like they was dumb on alot of the moves in FA. Its pretty obvious the Knicks FO is not that good, so them passing on Kai Jones is more indicative of their ability and not his.

Also it’s not moot because I would say the exact same thing about a fan mad because their team didn’t take McBride and don’t care that he’s “dominating the g league” like Luka Samanic is down there putting up big numbers too and so was Ignas Brazdeikis so I’m really not impressed by that I need to see real results

[TerrenceClarke]

i figure he’s so good he’d be playing or getting minutes over the likes of Nick Richards and not in the g league

And you’re right it’s not about today it’s about tomorrow which is why we don’t need him today and “tomorrow” can draft someone better with their pick (if they go that route)

Grimes has potential but couldn't crack the rotation until player injuries or a player being removed. Deuce looks very high level and he dont even play. So your point is still moot on him "not playing" . Its common that talented players dont get immediate burn on positions that are deep in front of them. Anfernee Simons was a high level prospect from the rip but he didnt play on the blazers initally because of the guard depth in front of him. It happens all over the NBA. The reality is the Knicks were dumb to punt on Kai Jones, just like they was dumb on alot of the moves in FA. Its pretty obvious the Knicks FO is not that good, so them passing on Kai Jones is more indicative of their ability and not his.

Also it’s not moot because I would say the exact same thing about a fan mad because their team didn’t take McBride and don’t care that he’s “dominating the g league” like Luka Samanic is down there putting up big numbers too and so was Ignas Brazdeikis so I’m really not impressed by that I need to see real results

thats you, but you was the one trying to dismiss the other poster point that we should have picked him. What you eat dont make everyone else ****. I personally was a huge fan of Jones in the draft, and he would been an excellent developmental prospect to have been drafted by us as we dont have a center like him on the roster. We are still in center hell, but at least with Jones there is huge potential defensively and offensively.

You said you need to see real results? how about the real results that we all see... that our centers on the roster are super suspect now and tomo.

[robillionaire]

Grimes has potential but couldn't crack the rotation until player injuries or a player being removed. Deuce looks very high level and he dont even play. So your point is still moot on him "not playing" . Its common that talented players dont get immediate burn on positions that are deep in front of them. Anfernee Simons was a high level prospect from the rip but he didnt play on the blazers initally because of the guard depth in front of him. It happens all over the NBA. The reality is the Knicks were dumb to punt on Kai Jones, just like they was dumb on alot of the moves in FA. Its pretty obvious the Knicks FO is not that good, so them passing on Kai Jones is more indicative of their ability and not his.

Also it’s not moot because I would say the exact same thing about a fan mad because their team didn’t take McBride and don’t care that he’s “dominating the g league” like Luka Samanic is down there putting up big numbers too and so was Ignas Brazdeikis so I’m really not impressed by that I need to see real results

thats you, but you was the one trying to dismiss the other poster point that we should have picked him. What you eat dont make everyone else ****. I personally was a huge fan of Jones in the draft, and he would been an excellent developmental prospect to have been drafted by us as we dont have a center like him on the roster. We are still in center hell, but at least with Jones there is huge potential defensively and offensively.

You said you need to see real results? how about the real results that we all see... that our centers on the roster are super suspect now and tomo.

Ok well look, I just checked the box score of that 15 point game and he was a -21 and outplayed by Kabengele

We could use a better center I agree that’s true but that doesn’t mean it has to be him, there’s a reason he was there at 19 in a top heavy draft l, in fact he wasn’t that great at Texas which is why his stock did not rise but fell throughout the year, if could go back and use the 19th pick there are still good other players I would take over him

The Hornets starting center is Miles Plumlee you are overstating them being stacked at the position

[prophet_of_rage]

THIS. I begging for this team to sign Derozan AND Ball but if we could signed at least one of them I would been satisfied. Instead Perry goes the mediocre route and gets damaged goods and a decent back up (paying him starter money). Perry should have been fired along with Mills and if it wasn't apparent before, it should be now.

Why do we keep ignoring Perry wanted DeRozan and was overruled?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

it that truly was the case, and I don't know if it is, then I take it back. Bottom line is I definitely wanted him two. Everyone gets so caught up in the 3 point shot that they forget that an efficient midrange scorer can just as effective. (Look at Durant, Leonard and so many others; the vast majority of their points is in the mid range.) Derozan would have been absolutely perfect on the Knicks and he now also shooting better from the 3 point line. He is exactly what we needed RJ to become.

I understand. We are quick to blame Perry but I never hear anybody say Perry signed Quick. That was Wes' guy who overrules Thibs and company to get him. If you think Perry has clout you haven't even beem reading his rehiring. He is a dray horse. That's all and he was willong to play the position to keep the money rolling in. They had the man off acouting through most of the end of last season.

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[DickGrayson]

The Knicks never addressed the PG problem in the offseason and that was a huge red flag. Then, they tried to sell Kemba to us like he wasn't just let go and bought out by a team.

The Knicks FO never meant to compete this year. They certainly didn't put in the pieces for it. Our main pieces last year got exposed in the playoffs and we traded for Fournier and got Kemba, who were both horrible in the postseason.

Never made a big splash or show any creativity to finally get us that playmaker. Knicks management didn't even go all in to compete. They keep playing it safe for the sake of flexibility.

Just get us that PG.

Same can be said for the draft. We didn't appear to make any serious effort to move up and snag any of the top tier talent. Look at Chris Duarte and what he is doing. He was one of the players a lot of guys talked about and would have been a great fit. Don't get me wrong, I like Grimes and McBride (Sims is looking like a steal), but I think they got a little lucky that those guys were still there.

Well Duarte is also 24.5 y/o and probably a complete product. In fact I checked his stats to see what he’s doing and he’s shooting 34.9% from 3 and all his BPM stats are negative, personally I am not impressed by it

Grimes is 3 years younger and is shooting 41.2% from 3 with a much higher ts% it’s a much smaller sample size but maybe we should see what we have there

1. Duarte isn't a complete product.

2. Pacers suck this season. Don't eat too much of the BPM, Grimes would do far worse and has never been a better basketball player at any point of his life over Duarte.

3.Duarte 35% 3PT(after slumping but was 40% majority of the season) on 126 3pt attempts. Comparing Grimes 41% in 17 attempts during garbage time is mindless. Duarte is amongst the top in rookies in 3PT made and points scored. Theres absolutely nothing you've seen from Grimes in a mere 75 minutes played. That's an extremely low sample size. Who knows where they finish at the end of the season. But I'll put a stack up and say Duarte will prove hes the more lethal shooter. He's already the superior defender, athlete, slasher and playmaker. Duarte leads all rookies on 3pt made. 126 > 17. 17 is too small to even say what level of a shooter Grimes is. Harden takes like 17 3pt in one quarter.....cut that ish out assuming 41% is a stat that holds weight. 17A is too low for that to mean anything. Especially in garbage minutes.

4. Grimes is a slouch at defense, he plays guard but is not a playmaker and he never shown he can't drive effectively. He can shoot so he's a vanilla Anthony Morrow. Duarte is a quick Brogdon with defense. It's not even close. If Grimes isnt shooting, what else is he doing ? Hes never shown in Houston he was anything but a one dimensional player. If you check out Pacers games, Duarte is getting 33 mins of burn because he plays both ends. His scoring numbers will end this season around 16 ppg on 39% 3pt shooting. Grimes will struggle to even crack 20 minutes a game. 4 years from now Grimes will be the same player and Duarte will be a two way starter putting up 20 ppg on 40% 3pt shooting. Its a lopsided comparison. All guards on this roster are ass at defense and cement feet Grimes doesnt have the lateral quickness like Duarte to be a 28minute plus rotation player. Grimes can hit 3s for us then great. We got Anthony Morrow without the scoring off the bench. But lets not pretend Grimes is this all around talent who we will be building around. Duarte already commands responsibility and a big role on a team. Grimes will struggle to ever seen 20 min per game because you will learn how hell get exposed defensively. Duarte plays meaningful minutes and Grimes doesnt. Two way player who will be a 20 ppg scorer on high % > Anthony Morrow with low ceiling. Quote me 6 months from now.

[prophet_of_rage]

THIS. I begging for this team to sign Derozan AND Ball but if we could signed at least one of them I would been satisfied. Instead Perry goes the mediocre route and gets damaged goods and a decent back up (paying him starter money). Perry should have been fired along with Mills and if it wasn't apparent before, it should be now.

Why do we keep ignoring Perry wanted DeRozan and was overruled?

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

because this way we can pretend that leon rose is not ultimately responsible for everything that's happened, which of course he is, and we can cling to the hope that the current management is not hopeless like all the groups before them.

I know. Hoodwinking ourselves at this point.

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[prophet_of_rage]

I think the unfortunate truth is nobody wants to come to NYK and we don't like to admit it and neither does our FO.

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