PG - oh no, we suck again

[DowNY]

The time for closing the door on RJ's Knicks tenure is certainly not here.
Take Jimmy Butler's 3rd year (2013).

.457 : 2PT
.283 : 3PT
13ppg
.769 ft%
38 minutes pg.

In Jimmy Butler's 4th year he averaged 20+ppg and has never looked back after that.

By you starting this RJ is a bust chant and those who And1 you, just shows how this fanbase wants to build from within but has absolutely no time for it.

I’d advise you to visit the RJ is a bust thread from last year. It’s the same ppl

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

Frank and Knox on their best year couldn’t average rookie RJ numbers. Thats how bad those picks were. To come late RJ to them is unfortunate but I get it. When things are going bad, it’s easy dwell on it. I said last year, I see a Harrison Barnes trajectory for RJ and still do at the very least. Never saw a positive trajectory for Frank, I had little hope for Knox at first but that changed fast.
But yeah, RJ is buns. No talent. Averaged 2, 2 & 1 last year and contributes to no wins since being drafted.

Funny thing is, if RJ was on a team like the Spurs, dudes would be talking about trying to trade for him. I know dudes want Zion/Ja production from him because majority of the other players on the team suck and worse than 21 him actually but it’s life. There’s a lot that needs fixing. Throwing RJ away or to the bench might be a solution but nobody here can say that for certain. Some of the people zoning on the kid with negativity were fans of bums like Dennis Smith, Frank, Dotson & others but kill RJ.

Lol it is what it is. I’m at a point where I don’t even care. It’s obvious trades are going to happen, it’s just a matter of who and when.

[TerrenceClarke]

Part of the reason is because of our front offices historically do not trust "analytics", and feel they can do without them because they know better.

This organization has been stuck in the stone age since Woody and Grunwald were let go.

Analytics said that the Kemba and Fournier duo would work extremely well:

Read on Twitter

What this front office didn’t know, which apparently Boston and OKC did, was that the final injury Walker got in the playoffs was it for his knee.

Honestly if they said screwed the analytics and decided to get “bucket getters” like DeRozan, who has had a negative +\- and net rating for about a decade straight until this year, we’d be better this season.

Maybe the Knicks are just cursed who knows

All you had to do was watch the playoffs and knew Kemba and Fournier was trash

Facts. The real head scratcher was EF. Dude has been ass on the defensive end his whole career and they still gave him that contract.

so basically out scouting dept/talent evaluators didnt do they job then.....

[Chanel Bomber]

I’d advise you to visit the RJ is a bust thread from last year. It’s the same ppl

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

Frank and Knox on their best year couldn’t average rookie RJ numbers. Thats how bad those picks were. To come late RJ to them is unfortunate but I get it. When things are going bad, it’s easy dwell on it. I said last year, I see a Harrison Barnes trajectory for RJ and still do at the very least. Never saw a positive trajectory for Frank, I had little hope for Knox at first but that changed fast.
But yeah, RJ is buns. No talent. Averaged 2, 2 & 1 last year and contributes to no wins since being drafted.

Funny thing is, if RJ was on a team like the Spurs, dudes would be talking about trying to trade for him. I know dudes want Zion/Ja production from him because majority of the other players on the team suck and worse than 21 him actually but it’s life. There’s a lot that needs fixing. Throwing RJ away or to the bench might be a solution but nobody here can say that for certain. Some of the people zoning on the kid with negativity were fans of bums like Dennis Smith, Frank, Dotson & others but kill RJ.

Lol it is what it is. I’m at a point where I don’t even care. It’s obvious trades are going to happen, it’s just a matter of who and when.

You have him as your avi, of course you're gonna defend him

I said that RJ was better than Frank and Knox, but that's not saying much. They're in the bottom 10%.

Never said RJ had no talent. He simply has no elite skill, and doesn't actually contribute to winning, as he's wildly inefficient in a limited role. Harrison Barnes is a pretty good optimistic comp for RJ. Hopefully he gets there, but Barnes had a more natural shooting stroke and was a better athlete.

I can't speak for the "dudes" you're referring to though.

[HarthorneWingo]

I think we just have to start our best players now which necessarily means DRose starts. RJ goes to the bench.

[thebuzzardman]

Comes a time you gotta face the truth. Truth is RJ is buns

The time for closing the door on RJ's Knicks tenure is certainly not here.
Take Jimmy Butler's 3rd year (2013).

.457 : 2PT
.283 : 3PT
13ppg
.769 ft%
38 minutes pg.

In Jimmy Butler's 4th year he averaged 20+ppg and has never looked back after that.

By you starting this RJ is a bust chant and those who And1 you, just shows how this fanbase wants to build from within but has absolutely no time for it.

They said you couldn't rebuild in NY for over 20 years for a reason.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Because Dolan reads Knicks RealGM?

[thebuzzardman]

Analytics said that the Kemba and Fournier duo would work extremely well:

Read on Twitter

What this front office didn’t know, which apparently Boston and OKC did, was that the final injury Walker got in the playoffs was it for his knee.

Honestly if they said screwed the analytics and decided to get “bucket getters” like DeRozan, who has had a negative +\- and net rating for about a decade straight until this year, we’d be better this season.

Maybe the Knicks are just cursed who knows

All you had to do was watch the playoffs and knew Kemba and Fournier was trash

Facts. The real head scratcher was EF. Dude has been ass on the defensive end his whole career and they still gave him that contract.

so basically out scouting dept/talent evaluators didnt do they job then.....

Well, pro player scouting is Zanin and his brother, so there's a place to fire someone and get a better guy.

Well, we know Thibs pushes for certain guys. Like, Rose, Taj and Noel are all clearly Thibs calls.

[prophet_of_rage]

The time for closing the door on RJ's Knicks tenure is certainly not here.
Take Jimmy Butler's 3rd year (2013).

.457 : 2PT
.283 : 3PT
13ppg
.769 ft%
38 minutes pg.

In Jimmy Butler's 4th year he averaged 20+ppg and has never looked back after that.

By you starting this RJ is a bust chant and those who And1 you, just shows how this fanbase wants to build from within but has absolutely no time for it.

They said you couldn't rebuild in NY for over 20 years for a reason.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Because Dolan reads Knicks RealGM?

Because the fans at the arena, twitter, ESPN, etc. And Dolan is well aware of the fans.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[3toheadmelo]

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

Frank and Knox on their best year couldn’t average rookie RJ numbers. Thats how bad those picks were. To come late RJ to them is unfortunate but I get it. When things are going bad, it’s easy dwell on it. I said last year, I see a Harrison Barnes trajectory for RJ and still do at the very least. Never saw a positive trajectory for Frank, I had little hope for Knox at first but that changed fast.
But yeah, RJ is buns. No talent. Averaged 2, 2 & 1 last year and contributes to no wins since being drafted.

Funny thing is, if RJ was on a team like the Spurs, dudes would be talking about trying to trade for him. I know dudes want Zion/Ja production from him because majority of the other players on the team suck and worse than 21 him actually but it’s life. There’s a lot that needs fixing. Throwing RJ away or to the bench might be a solution but nobody here can say that for certain. Some of the people zoning on the kid with negativity were fans of bums like Dennis Smith, Frank, Dotson & others but kill RJ.

Lol it is what it is. I’m at a point where I don’t even care. It’s obvious trades are going to happen, it’s just a matter of who and when.

You have him as your avi, of course you're gonna defend him

I said that RJ was better than Frank and Knox, but that's not saying much. They're in the bottom 10%.

Never said RJ had no talent. He simply has no elite skill, and doesn't actually contribute to winning, as he's wildly inefficient in a limited role. Harrison Barnes is a pretty good optimistic comp for RJ. Hopefully he gets there, but Barnes had a more natural shooting stroke and was a better athlete.

I can't speak for the "dudes" you're referring to though.

Honestly Barnes has a much bigger bag than RJ. His mid range is fun to watch when he has it going.

[dakomish23]

The time for closing the door on RJ's Knicks tenure is certainly not here.
Take Jimmy Butler's 3rd year (2013).

.457 : 2PT
.283 : 3PT
13ppg
.769 ft%
38 minutes pg.

In Jimmy Butler's 4th year he averaged 20+ppg and has never looked back after that.

By you starting this RJ is a bust chant and those who And1 you, just shows how this fanbase wants to build from within but has absolutely no time for it.

I’d advise you to visit the RJ is a bust thread from last year. It’s the same ppl

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

You spent all last year trashing obi and now you’re using him to bash rjb. Maybe don’t be a prisoner of the moment CB

[dakomish23]

The time for closing the door on RJ's Knicks tenure is certainly not here.
Take Jimmy Butler's 3rd year (2013).

.457 : 2PT
.283 : 3PT
13ppg
.769 ft%
38 minutes pg.

In Jimmy Butler's 4th year he averaged 20+ppg and has never looked back after that.

By you starting this RJ is a bust chant and those who And1 you, just shows how this fanbase wants to build from within but has absolutely no time for it.

I’d advise you to visit the RJ is a bust thread from last year. It’s the same ppl

We’re not exactly in a situation where there is so much talent ahead of RJ that he needs to get in line. You keep going with him until the next step.

Bingoooo

[Chanel Bomber]

I’d advise you to visit the RJ is a bust thread from last year. It’s the same ppl

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

You spent all last year trashing obi and now you’re using him to bash rjb. Maybe don’t be a prisoner of the moment CB

Not true. I trashed the Obi pick, for sure (especially because Haliburton was right there for the taking), but I switched my tune fairly quickly. Although let's be honest, he's not exactly proven to be a blue-chipper either. But he's been solid in his role as a back-up.

My view on RJ isn't based on this season alone. I looked at all the numbers (not just RJ's but the whole team) in detail this summer, and mixed them with the eye test. RJ simply wasn't good last year. He was inefficient in a limited role. He just wasn't atrocious like he was his rookie season, and like he's been this season. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. He has a long road ahead of him to become even a positive role player.

I'm not bashing RJ by the way, just being realistic about where his game is. I love RJ, and it's not his fault that his game isn't translating to the NBA. He's just not very talented or athletic, and that's on the Knicks front office for taking him #3. I have no beef with RJ. He's cool in my book.

[Zenzibar]

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

You spent all last year trashing obi and now you’re using him to bash rjb. Maybe don’t be a prisoner of the moment CB

Not true. I trashed the Obi pick, for sure (especially because Haliburton was right there for the taking), but I switched my tune fairly quickly. Although let's be honest, he's not exactly proven to be a blue-chipper either. But he's been solid in his role as a back-up.

My view on RJ isn't based on this season alone. I looked at all the numbers (not just RJ's but the whole team) in detail this summer, and mixed them with the eye test. RJ simply wasn't good last year. He was inefficient in a limited role. He just wasn't atrocious like he was his rookie season, and like he's been this season. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. He has a long road ahead of him to become even a positive role player.

I'm not bashing RJ by the way, just being realistic about where his game is. I love RJ, and it's not his fault that his game isn't translating to the NBA. He's just not very talented or athletic, and that's on the Knicks front office for taking him #3. I have no beef with RJ. He's cool in my book.

How much more athletic was Butler at 21? He was never a rim runner IMO and recollection.

[Chanel Bomber]

You spent all last year trashing obi and now you’re using him to bash rjb. Maybe don’t be a prisoner of the moment CB

Not true. I trashed the Obi pick, for sure (especially because Haliburton was right there for the taking), but I switched my tune fairly quickly. Although let's be honest, he's not exactly proven to be a blue-chipper either. But he's been solid in his role as a back-up.

My view on RJ isn't based on this season alone. I looked at all the numbers (not just RJ's but the whole team) in detail this summer, and mixed them with the eye test. RJ simply wasn't good last year. He was inefficient in a limited role. He just wasn't atrocious like he was his rookie season, and like he's been this season. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. He has a long road ahead of him to become even a positive role player.

I'm not bashing RJ by the way, just being realistic about where his game is. I love RJ, and it's not his fault that his game isn't translating to the NBA. He's just not very talented or athletic, and that's on the Knicks front office for taking him #3. I have no beef with RJ. He's cool in my book.

How much more athletic was Butler at 21? He was never a rim runner IMO and recollection.

Jimmy has elite lateral quickness and a much better first step than RJ.

He was also more talented with the ball.

RJ ranks in the 15th percentile in isolation scoring. 16th percentile as the PNR ball-handler. Dreadful.

I can only go back to 2015-16 on NBA stats (Butler's 5th year) but he was in the 79th percentile in isolation scoring, and the 81st percentile as the PNR ball-handler.

Age difference, but to believe that RJ has the natural talent to go from bottom of the league to elite in those categories in terms of efficiency is just wishful thinking.

[3toheadmelo]

Not true. I trashed the Obi pick, for sure (especially because Haliburton was right there for the taking), but I switched my tune fairly quickly. Although let's be honest, he's not exactly proven to be a blue-chipper either. But he's been solid in his role as a back-up.

My view on RJ isn't based on this season alone. I looked at all the numbers (not just RJ's but the whole team) in detail this summer, and mixed them with the eye test. RJ simply wasn't good last year. He was inefficient in a limited role. He just wasn't atrocious like he was his rookie season, and like he's been this season. The evidence is pretty overwhelming. He has a long road ahead of him to become even a positive role player.

I'm not bashing RJ by the way, just being realistic about where his game is. I love RJ, and it's not his fault that his game isn't translating to the NBA. He's just not very talented or athletic, and that's on the Knicks front office for taking him #3. I have no beef with RJ. He's cool in my book.

How much more athletic was Butler at 21? He was never a rim runner IMO and recollection.

Jimmy has elite lateral quickness and a much better first step than RJ.

He was also more talented with the ball.

RJ ranks in the 15th percentile in isolation scoring. 16th percentile as the PNR ball-handler. Dreadful.

I can only go back to 2015-16 on NBA stats (Butler's 5th year) but he was in the 79th percentile in isolation scoring, and the 81st percentile as the PNR ball-handler.

Age difference, but to believe that RJ has the natural talent to go from bottom of the league to elite in those categories in terms of efficiency is just wishful thinking.

The Jimmy Butler comparison is really bad and I never understood it

[Buttah304]

For me PEAK RJ is most likely 2001 Bonzi Wells on Portland.

[thebuzzardman]

They said you couldn't rebuild in NY for over 20 years for a reason.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Because Dolan reads Knicks RealGM?

Because the fans at the arena, twitter, ESPN, etc. And Dolan is well aware of the fans.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Well, if only he hired people who drafted decent players, then he wouldn't have to hear this noise.

[thebuzzardman]

For me PEAK RJ is most likely 2001 Bonzi Wells on Portland.

I don't think RJ's post game is that good

[bearadonisdna]

For me peak RJ is Brooklyn harden without the assists.
We’ve already since a glimpse of it

[Buttah304]

For me PEAK RJ is most likely 2001 Bonzi Wells on Portland.

I don't think RJ's post game is that good

Because he’s such a subpar athlete developing a post game (due to his strength) is something he’ll have to consider. When you have as many limitations as he does you have to think outside the box. Bonzi was also a ferocious rebounder at times. RJ might need to get that mentality as well.

[thebuzzardman]

For me PEAK RJ is most likely 2001 Bonzi Wells on Portland.

I don't think RJ's post game is that good

Because he’s such a subpar athlete developing a post game (due to his strength) is something he’ll have to consider. When you have as many limitations as he does you have to think outside the box. Bonzi was also a ferocious rebounder at times. RJ might need to get that mentality as well.

Ah yes. Another thing that RJ can't do that he has to add. It's such a long list. He sort of crossed shooting 3's off it though. One down, approximately 7 different other elite NBA skills to go.