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Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants)

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#981 » by Marley2Hendrix » Sun Dec 5, 2021 6:40 pm

Spoiler:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Marley2Hendrix wrote:
The vast majority of people are placed on antidepressants by general medical physicians, not psychiatrists, and, the vast majority of this population receives antidepressants after reporting depressive symptoms to their general medical physician while not meeting the criteria for a Major Depressive Disorder (a quick google yielded a 2013 journal article indicating 79% of people on antidepressants received them from their general medical physician, 60% of whom do not see a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist at any point in the future). Depressive symptoms generally pose a paradox - general malaise, anhedonia (diminished desire to engage in enjoyable/preferred activities), and lethargy, with the best known resolution to this being forced behavioral activation (i.e., pushing oneself to socialize, exercise, and, generally, being active). Unfortunately, this solution is antithetical to the experience of depressive symptoms and not intrinsically known by most. Moreover, the average adult in the united states experiences an uptick in depressive symptoms approximately two days per month, and, broadly speaking, we don't do a great job in this country in schools, media, and in general talking about what to do when depressive symptoms present.

Generally, the main utility of an antidepressant is boosting someone out of a severe depression, with the goal of giving them the energy to meaningfully engage in behavioral activation (i.e., socializing, developing a support network, exercising, meaningfully engaging in the therapy process, etc.). Ironically, this poses a dangerous and misunderstood situation of it's own, as there's plenty of research and lawsuits, primarily from the 90s, as their tends to be a statistically significant influx of individuals committing suicide approximately 4-6 weeks after initiating a trial with an antidepressant; why - because as the serious depression remits, energy rises but the underlying thoughts remain, thereby creating a scenario where they have the energy/psychic energy to commit suicide they didn't have before. To be clear, this is not the fault of the antidepressant, but the failure to ensure the individual is combining the modality of treatment with therapy and active involvement in a support system.

Lastly, and reiterating my prior point, we, as a country, like quick, easy fixes (i.e., take paxil for the rest of your life and never worry about depression again; get vaccinated and you don't have to worry about your comorbidities). Google it yourself - the long-term efficacy (i.e., continuing them for 6 months, 12 months, 4 years, etc.) of antidepressants alone isn't favorable. Moreover, for males in particular, many don't make the link when the medication causes, say, impotence, never link it to the pill, never discuss it with their prescribing physician (people aren't great about talking about these things) which then contributes to further embarrassment/withdrawal, only serving to further the source of the depression.

The stigma is mental health issues are embarrassing, so let's get on a pill and never talk about it again. As I said before,

I'm "anti-myopic view of very complex circumstances."


To me, your response was myopic, but, in an effort to try and be a good human, this is what I hope is a thoughtful response. I strongly disagree with your sentiment, "People like you are why there is a stigma around mental health," and I'm sorry you feel that way.

edit - I haven't read the article, but, after posting, I quickly had the thought bubble maybe it does sound absurd that regular exercise, through random controlled trials, has demonstrated similar efficacy to antidepressants, and you don't want to trust what random licensed psychologist guy is touting on the internet, and that's fair. Quick google and the very first result (I assure you, there's an abundance of studies):

Two categories of publications were examined: randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and meta-analyses or systematic reviews. Based on this reassessment, RCTs comparing exercise to antidepressants reported that exercise and antidepressants were equally effective. RCTs comparing exercise combined with antidepressants to antidepressants only reported a significant improvement in depression following exercise as an adjunctive treatment.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5430071/

Not to be myopic, but, think like a psychologist - forcing oneself to exercise is more than just the four or five days of exercise. It could mean, for many, going to a gym, forcing oneself out of his or her home, and at least engaging with others, even better if they have a workout buddy or friend, which yields further socialization. How about the enhanced self-esteem and sense of mastery for actual coming up with a goal of regular exercise, sticking to it, and, in basic terms, feeling better about one's health and general level of fitness, circumstances which may underlie some aspects of the depressive symptoms. There's a pretty vast list of correlates that come with exercise...


You are a paradox of what you spout against— you dislike quick fixes but you source and advice for everything is a google search, where you admittedly just read synopses only. I bolded this all for your benefit.

Do you have a medical degree? What makes you think you’re more capable of diagnosing depression and advising a cure than ones PCP? If your answer is you google’d specific search words and read a few hours worth of studies/abstracts then that is a problem.


Do you have a medical degree? What makes you think you’re more capable of diagnosing depression and advising a cure than ones PCP? If your answer is you google’d specific search words and read a few hours worth of studies/abstracts then that is a problem.... You are a paradox of what you spout against— you dislike quick fixes but you source and advice for everything is a google search, where you admittedly just read synopses only. I bolded this all for your benefit.


This is an online forum, and I'm only devoting so much time to replying to one person. It's off-topic as is, so I don't see much value in putting effort in it, particularly as you seem to have quite the negative bent to your perception of me (and that's okay).

I have a Masters and Doctorate in clinical psychology, and I've been a licensed psychologist for over 10 years. I spent the first half of my career working closely with psychiatrists, medical doctors, nurses, and facility staff at an inpatient psychiatric ward. At the psychiatric facility, my primary role was completing thorough psychological evaluations (I'd wager they averaged 14k-16k words) at the request of the psychiatrist, generally with a request to weigh in on the need for a psychotropic intervention. I've certainly taken a number of courses on psychopharmacology, but, again, I'm not a psychiatrist; they viewed the psychologist's role as assigning the clinical diagnosis, severity of distress, and recommended modalities of treatment. I dug working at this place as it embodied different specialties working together. Part of my role also was testifying in court about the need for civil commitment and forced neuroleptic (i.e., antipsychotic) medication on a regular basis.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#982 » by Curmudgeon » Sun Dec 5, 2021 9:31 pm

I don't understand the point of this discussion. Are anti-depressants and pain killers overprescribed? Yes. Would obese people do better to lose weight and exercise than to take Prozac? Probably yes in many cases.

But we're talking about a vaccine to protect against a deadly disease. There was little or no obesity in 14th Century Europe (and no anti-depressants either), but Bubonic Plague killed half the population. Exercise wasn't the answer.

Today we have a vaccine against that disease, and very few people die from it. Same with Smallpox, Cholera, Typhus, Diptheria, Yellow Fever and Polio. All of these diseases killed millions (maybe billions over the course of history), but thanks to medical science,, they are no longer killers today.

If Facebook existed in 1955 there would be thousands more people walking around on crutches when parents refused to let their children receive the Salk vaccine.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#983 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:17 am

Read on Twitter

Can we turn down the option for this new variant? We're good without it tbh.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#984 » by ddb » Mon Dec 6, 2021 2:41 pm

https://aapsonline.org/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

I'm old enough to remember when some of you were saying this was another one of my "conspiracy theories". Scary sh&t is what this is.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#985 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Dec 6, 2021 4:46 pm

Yeah, too bad the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds that other patients need-- that's the real issue. I expect that the protocols are strict because they don't want the covid patients to infect other high risk patients.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#986 » by threrf23 » Mon Dec 6, 2021 7:05 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Yeah, too bad the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds that other patients need-- that's the real issue. I expect that the protocols are strict because they don't want the covid patients to infect other high risk patients.


It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#987 » by Mr Loggins » Mon Dec 6, 2021 7:20 pm

threrf23 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Yeah, too bad the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds that other patients need-- that's the real issue. I expect that the protocols are strict because they don't want the covid patients to infect other high risk patients.


It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#988 » by ddb » Mon Dec 6, 2021 7:45 pm

Mr Loggins wrote:
threrf23 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Yeah, too bad the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds that other patients need-- that's the real issue. I expect that the protocols are strict because they don't want the covid patients to infect other high risk patients.


It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#989 » by SuperDeluxe » Mon Dec 6, 2021 7:55 pm

ddb wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:
threrf23 wrote:
It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.

Even my 3-year-old nephew, who is more informed than you are, would be able to answer these questions (except for the Scotland thing, but I'd bet that you pulled that stat out of your rear end).
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#990 » by Mr Loggins » Mon Dec 6, 2021 7:58 pm

ddb wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:
threrf23 wrote:
It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.



Becuse vaccines aren’t 100%. The point being being vaccinated dramatically increases your chances your a good outcome. If you recall from my earlier post, about 85+% of our current covid cases are unvaccinated.

And are you joking with the “why do sick people go to the hospital?? It’s pretty self-evident. The reason the unvaccinated come to the hospital is their disease has progressed to the point where they are too sick to survive without hospital care.

Enough with the “just a flu” nonsense. sheesh
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#991 » by Bad-Thoma » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:04 pm

ddb wrote:https://aapsonline.org/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

I'm old enough to remember when some of you were saying this was another one of my "conspiracy theories". Scary sh&t is what this is.


So to prove you aren't a conspiracy theorist you link an article from a conspiracy theory site? Or is it just that you can't tell the difference? I don't know how you could read that loaded title and not be able to tell the difference and still be able to speak above a 3rd grade level so I'm assuming you're just **** with us?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-aaps/
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#992 » by jmr07019 » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:16 pm

Austria to put people in jail for not taking the jab

The government said it was preparing the legal groundwork for a general vaccine mandate to come into effect from 1 February, with exemptions for those unable to receive a jab on medical grounds.

The age from which people will be required to be vaccinated has not yet been determined, the government said.

Those refusing to be vaccinated are likely to face administrative fines, which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine cannot be recovered.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/austria-plans-compulsory-covid-vaccination-for-all

Not that different from what is going on in Australia where they are already putting people in prison for close contacts.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#993 » by djFan71 » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:19 pm

ddb wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:
threrf23 wrote:
It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.

Because people need hospital beds for things other than covid. Every other medical issue that required hospital beds before covid still exist, but now has pressure on them for finite resources.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#994 » by ddb » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:35 pm

djFan71 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:

That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.

Because people need hospital beds for things other than covid. Every other medical issue that required hospital beds before covid still exist, but now has pressure on them for finite resources.


Well yeah. I was factoring that in.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#995 » by La Flame » Mon Dec 6, 2021 8:53 pm

jmr07019 wrote:Austria to put people in jail for not taking the jab

The government said it was preparing the legal groundwork for a general vaccine mandate to come into effect from 1 February, with exemptions for those unable to receive a jab on medical grounds.

The age from which people will be required to be vaccinated has not yet been determined, the government said.

Those refusing to be vaccinated are likely to face administrative fines, which can be converted into a prison sentence if the fine cannot be recovered.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/austria-plans-compulsory-covid-vaccination-for-all

Not that different from what is going on in Australia where they are already putting people in prison for close contacts.

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People will still find a way to justify this lol
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#996 » by djFan71 » Mon Dec 6, 2021 9:03 pm

ddb wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.

Because people need hospital beds for things other than covid. Every other medical issue that required hospital beds before covid still exist, but now has pressure on them for finite resources.


Well yeah. I was factoring that in.

OK, I missed that. Where did you factor that in?

In general, I think you rely on anecdotal evidence too much. "I wouldn't go to the hosptial" doesn't mean other unvaccinated people with COVID wouldn't. It's widely reported that hospitals have seen surges due to covid and turned away care for non-covid patients. The fact that you wouldn't or don't know anyone that has had it, etc, is irrelevant.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#997 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Dec 6, 2021 9:24 pm

ddb wrote:
Mr Loggins wrote:
threrf23 wrote:
It's a shame they are being given beds that other patients need. I don't blame the unvaccinated for that.



That’s the society and rules we live in - first come/first serve. Because you made the asanine “personal choice” to not get vaccinated, it doesn’t mean you get denied any healthcare. Even if that means you’ll be using an ICU bed and all the associated resources for two to 10 weeks while some other patient pays the price for your idiot decesion….so be it


Not for nothing, but why are fully vaccinated people needing beds in hospitals? Hm. Also, I was reading earlier today that in Scotland 84% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. And just a little food for thought, many unvaccinated people (like me) who would never take the shot, would also never go to the hospital with flu-like symptoms. so I'm really curious who these unvaccinated people are that are taking up so many beds. Seems more like a narrative to me. Believe me....the LAST place I would go if I thought I had covid or the flu is the damn hospital.....same place being compensated for covid cases, hospitalizations, deaths, etc.


https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-scotland-statistics/fact-check-graph-comparing-scottish-covid-19-hospitalisations-and-deaths-by-vaccination-status-lacks-key-information-idUSL1N2QQ24L

Please stop posting.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#998 » by canman1971 » Mon Dec 6, 2021 9:37 pm

djFan71 wrote:
ddb wrote:
djFan71 wrote:Because people need hospital beds for things other than covid. Every other medical issue that required hospital beds before covid still exist, but now has pressure on them for finite resources.


Well yeah. I was factoring that in.

OK, I missed that. Where did you factor that in?

In general, I think you rely on anecdotal evidence too much. "I wouldn't go to the hosptial" doesn't mean other unvaccinated people with COVID wouldn't. It's widely reported that hospitals have seen surges due to covid and turned away care for non-covid patients. The fact that you wouldn't or don't know anyone that has had it, etc, is irrelevant.

I don't think he factors anything in, never mind evidence. And he'd be the first to go to the hospital with a bad case of a tickle in his anus or too many dingleberries.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#999 » by ddb » Mon Dec 6, 2021 10:10 pm

canman1971 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
ddb wrote:
Well yeah. I was factoring that in.

OK, I missed that. Where did you factor that in?

In general, I think you rely on anecdotal evidence too much. "I wouldn't go to the hosptial" doesn't mean other unvaccinated people with COVID wouldn't. It's widely reported that hospitals have seen surges due to covid and turned away care for non-covid patients. The fact that you wouldn't or don't know anyone that has had it, etc, is irrelevant.

I don't think he factors anything in, never mind evidence. And he'd be the first to go to the hospital with a bad case of a tickle in his anus or too many dingleberries.


Yup. You got me. too many dingleberries.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19, Thread 3 (Omicron & Delta Variants) 

Post#1000 » by ddb » Mon Dec 6, 2021 10:13 pm

Bad-Thoma wrote:
ddb wrote:https://aapsonline.org/bidens-bounty-on-your-life-hospitals-incentive-payments-for-covid-19/

I'm old enough to remember when some of you were saying this was another one of my "conspiracy theories". Scary sh&t is what this is.


So to prove you aren't a conspiracy theorist you link an article from a conspiracy theory site? Or is it just that you can't tell the difference? I don't know how you could read that loaded title and not be able to tell the difference and still be able to speak above a 3rd grade level so I'm assuming you're just **** with us?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-aaps/


And you get all of your information from left wing sites. What's your point? Main stream media and "prestigious" liberal universities...all funded by liberal elites pushing the same crap.

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