PG - oh no, we suck again

[Clyde_Style]

Didn’t we trade that sh*t?

Nope and since there is so much parity in the East we might not have to tank to miss the playoffs and maybe luck into something....

Warriors rebounded quite well after (tank ..cough cough) missing the playoffs . Maybe we could too.

Hopefully we get someone decent but with the Warriors rebounding it’s not been any thanks to the player they drafted with the tank, Wiseman was terrible last year and has been out all year. They also have another top prospect in Kuminga who is in the g league

The drafted Jordan Poole 28th in 2019 and he’s been a great starter this season averaging 18ppg. Unfortunately another guy selected after RJ who looks a lot better.

Literally all they had to do was get steph curry back to turn a tank to one of the best teams in the nba that’s how good he is

I would vote for Steph as the best player of his era

[Clyde_Style]

Well, if only he hired people who drafted decent players, then he wouldn't have to hear this noise.

Dolan doesn’t really hear the fans, just like can’t hear how bad his music really is

Name of his band should be KId Coprophagy & The Stool Pigeons

I saw Kid Creole back in the day. Probably at The Ritz. Still have a couple of his vinyl albums in my stack

[thebuzzardman]

I think it’s been lost on people that Leon Rose is here because he’s Dolan’s friend. He has no resume for the job he was given. Much like the people before him, Rose falls into the category as ‘big celebrity name hire with no front office resume’ like Isiah or Phil or ‘James Dolan sycophant’ like Mills, Perry, and Grunwald before him.

I'm not a Dolan apologist but as a standalone fact, Leon Rose and his carefully selected executives are good if not great: Perrin, Aller, Frank Zanin etc. I trust that collectively they will turn this around, Dolan needs to stay away and let Rose, WWW and team prove their worth.

Last year they were God-sent, this year they're are worse than sht, typical Knicks RealGM fanbase cutthroats.

They are competent and coherent. That's more than we usually get. We've had a spot of bad luck so far this year.

I thought as well. Defended most of their moves this offseason, if not as great, understandable in a certain context that seemed good - that it was ok to run back MOSTLY last years team, build off success, and address more scoring variety at the wing and get a "good backup" level PG in Kemba, who would start, with Rose being the starting PG off the bench.

But know I have to wonder about that competence if they couldn't suss out Randle might regress hard, or that their pro player guys weren't warning that Kemba's defense at the point of attack would really hurt the team badly. Especially when added to Fournier.

I mean, they got that part wrong, but it's not as if the other part isn't the same. Tread water as an "ok" team and be able to make the bigger move.

Still, the team had 57 million in cap space. Again, I'm aware of the fact that backup PG, backup C, backup wing, starting wing, starting PG needed to be addressed, so it's not like it could have gone to two players and that's it. And maybe we should make it 44 million, because Rose was coming back, so that's timing.

But feel like maybe better moves could have been made instead of Kemba (still cheap, at least), Fournier and Noel. Even if it cost the always impressive Burks!

[Clyde_Style]

I think it’s been lost on people that Leon Rose is here because he’s Dolan’s friend. He has no resume for the job he was given. Much like the people before him, Rose falls into the category as ‘big celebrity name hire with no front office resume’ like Isiah or Phil or ‘James Dolan sycophant’ like Mills, Perry, and Grunwald before him.

I'm not a Dolan apologist but as a standalone fact, Leon Rose and his carefully selected executives are good if not great: Perrin, Aller, Frank Zanin etc. I trust that collectively they will turn this around, Dolan needs to stay away and let Rose, WWW and team prove their worth.

Last year they were God-sent, this year they're are worse than sht, typical Knicks RealGM fanbase cutthroats.

They are competent and coherent. That's more than we usually get. We've had a spot of bad luck so far this year.

At the end of the day, results are all they will be judged upon.

I do think it is a better run FO now and their investment in analytics MAY bear fruit, but not if the core imperative to sell out MSG remains the true DNA of this franchise. And a case can already be made that is how it looks.

We can’t say yet they are consistent, because it is better to be opportunistic and perhaps lucky than to stick to a plan that may not be working. In this FO’s case, consistency may be holding out for the trade for the big star as most of us assume has been the strategy all along. So, the jury is still out, but they entered the war zone this year with the terrible roster construction this season and Randle phoning it in.

And their plan could be very consistent and they may still whiff the ball and come up empty handed or land another 2nd tier star.Will they stick to their guns or make a desperation move? We could know fairly soon.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm not a Dolan apologist but as a standalone fact, Leon Rose and his carefully selected executives are good if not great: Perrin, Aller, Frank Zanin etc. I trust that collectively they will turn this around, Dolan needs to stay away and let Rose, WWW and team prove their worth.

Last year they were God-sent, this year they're are worse than sht, typical Knicks RealGM fanbase cutthroats.

They are competent and coherent. That's more than we usually get. We've had a spot of bad luck so far this year.

I thought as well. Defended most of their moves this offseason, if not as great, understandable in a certain context that seemed good - that it was ok to run back MOSTLY last years team, build off success, and address more scoring variety at the wing and get a "good backup" level PG in Kemba, who would start, with Rose being the starting PG off the bench.

But know I have to wonder about that competence if they couldn't suss out Randle might regress hard, or that their pro player guys weren't warning that Kemba's defense at the point of attack would really hurt the team badly. Especially when added to Fournier.

I mean, they got that part wrong, but it's not as if the other part isn't the same. Tread water as an "ok" team and be able to make the bigger move.

Still, the team had 57 million in cap space. Again, I'm aware of the fact that backup PG, backup C, backup wing, starting wing, starting PG needed to be addressed, so it's not like it could have gone to two players and that's it. And maybe we should make it 44 million, because Rose was coming back, so that's timing.

But feel like maybe better moves could have been made instead of Kemba (still cheap, at least), Fournier and Noel. Even if it cost the always impressive Burks!

Something is not right about a club if they can’t figure out Randle’s playoff disaster made him not worth giving the bag. After that meltdown Randle wasn’t worth more than Fournier got.

So their need to fill the roster or retain an “asset” got the better of them AGAIN.

Is Brock Aller any good? Does he truly influence their personnel decisions?

What I don’t see anyone saying lately is RANDLE WAS STILL UNDER CONTRACT FOR ONE MORE YEAR.

They could have easily made their assessment about his value for an extension or a trade by just playing him and doing contract talks later.

As of now, Randle is a con man who decided this was his big pay day so he doesn’t have to work on both ends any longer or refine his game again now that it has gone ragged.

The Knicks FO got snookered. It undermines any argument about their competence unless they use Randle to successfully make the big trade. Because building around him is Fugazi nonsense.

[nedleeds]

Can't believe the people debating with me about last year being fake haven't deleted their accounts yet.

Fake season, fake Randle, fake coach of the year. Fake, fake, fake and Rose and Clownperry got hoodwinked into signing Randle a year early for no reason.

Welcome to the 2004 Bobcats.

Real draft pick

It's not too late. If anyone can stubborn their way to 30-52 it's Thibenstein. Getting the 11th pick and scouting or getting lucky is at least a chance to get an top 20 player.



But we'll trade every pick until I'm dead for Dame's withered husk.

[DowNY]

The difference is, Jimmy was on an upwards trajectory, and had an elite skill, which was defense. He was a difference-maker on one end of the floor.

RJ has regressed from "not good", and he doesn't have a single elite skill.

He's more on the path to become a Justice Winslow or Imam Shumpert (perhaps with more longevity) than Jimmy Butler.

We've been through it with Frank and Knox. Where are the people screaming we should be patient with them? I was told it was only a matter of patience. That trading them would be some sort of disaster.

RJ's better than both of them, but that's quite the low bar.

I think Obi and IQ have more talent so I'd understand the reluctance to part with them a little bit more.

Frank and Knox on their best year couldn’t average rookie RJ numbers. Thats how bad those picks were. To come late RJ to them is unfortunate but I get it. When things are going bad, it’s easy dwell on it. I said last year, I see a Harrison Barnes trajectory for RJ and still do at the very least. Never saw a positive trajectory for Frank, I had little hope for Knox at first but that changed fast.
But yeah, RJ is buns. No talent. Averaged 2, 2 & 1 last year and contributes to no wins since being drafted.

Funny thing is, if RJ was on a team like the Spurs, dudes would be talking about trying to trade for him. I know dudes want Zion/Ja production from him because majority of the other players on the team suck and worse than 21 him actually but it’s life. There’s a lot that needs fixing. Throwing RJ away or to the bench might be a solution but nobody here can say that for certain. Some of the people zoning on the kid with negativity were fans of bums like Dennis Smith, Frank, Dotson & others but kill RJ.

Lol it is what it is. I’m at a point where I don’t even care. It’s obvious trades are going to happen, it’s just a matter of who and when.

You have him as your avi, of course you're gonna defend him

I said that RJ was better than Frank and Knox, but that's not saying much. They're in the bottom 10%.

Never said RJ had no talent. He simply has no elite skill, and doesn't actually contribute to winning, as he's wildly inefficient in a limited role. Harrison Barnes is a pretty good optimistic comp for RJ. Hopefully he gets there, but Barnes had a more natural shooting stroke and was a better athlete.

I can't speak for the "dudes" you're referring to though.

He’s been my avi since his rookie year because of the facial expression. Not cause I’m bias to him. I like the kid and have faith in him but I’m not going to be heartbroken if we traded him. Lol. I use the RealGM app (unfortunately) for majority of the time because I like dark mode. Have no clue how to change the avi via the app, nor do I really care to go out my way to change it. RJ can get traded tomorrow and it’ll still be my avi until I find time to care to change it.

[whocares1]

They are competent and coherent. That's more than we usually get. We've had a spot of bad luck so far this year.

I thought as well. Defended most of their moves this offseason, if not as great, understandable in a certain context that seemed good - that it was ok to run back MOSTLY last years team, build off success, and address more scoring variety at the wing and get a "good backup" level PG in Kemba, who would start, with Rose being the starting PG off the bench.

But know I have to wonder about that competence if they couldn't suss out Randle might regress hard, or that their pro player guys weren't warning that Kemba's defense at the point of attack would really hurt the team badly. Especially when added to Fournier.

I mean, they got that part wrong, but it's not as if the other part isn't the same. Tread water as an "ok" team and be able to make the bigger move.

Still, the team had 57 million in cap space. Again, I'm aware of the fact that backup PG, backup C, backup wing, starting wing, starting PG needed to be addressed, so it's not like it could have gone to two players and that's it. And maybe we should make it 44 million, because Rose was coming back, so that's timing.

But feel like maybe better moves could have been made instead of Kemba (still cheap, at least), Fournier and Noel. Even if it cost the always impressive Burks!

Something is not right about a club if they can’t figure out Randle’s playoff disaster made him not worth giving the bag. After that meltdown Randle wasn’t worth more than Fournier got.

So their need to fill the roster or retain an “asset” got the better of them AGAIN.

Is Brock Aller any good? Does he truly influence their personnel decisions?

What I don’t see anyone saying lately is RANDLE WAS STILL UNDER CONTRACT FOR ONE MORE YEAR.

They could have easily made their assessment about his value for an extension or a trade by just playing him and doing contract talks later.

As of now, Randle is a con man who decided this was his big pay day so he doesn’t have to work on both ends any longer or refine his game again now that it has gone ragged.

The Knicks FO got snookered. It undermines any argument about their competence unless they use Randle to successfully make the big trade. Because building around him is Fugazi nonsense.

I think they wanted the good pr by signing Randle to an extension a season prior. FO rewarded all their guys for playing well and that’s supposed to be in good faith that the players will respond by playing their best for them. Has it worked out? No. Would I have personally signed Randle to an extension? No. But the worst signing was Fournier bc he doesn’t fit as a Thibs guy. Kemba was a low risk move honestly that just hasn’t worked out, but tying Fournier to that money and years didn’t make sense.

The actual problem of this season however isn’t any of them or even Mitch underperforming, but RJ Barrett playing the way he has has shot the team of any chance of being anything other than mediocre. They needed RJ to become an all star and it doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

[prophet_of_rage]

Well, if only he hired people who drafted decent players, then he wouldn't have to hear this noise.

Dolan doesn’t really hear the fans, just like can’t hear how bad his music really is

Name of his band should be KId Coprophagy & The Stool Pigeons

Gross

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

We have two key players that shot over 40% from three last season and are shooting low 30s this season.

Was Thibs sending a message just to RJ, or a thinly veiled shot to a more proud veteran as well?

Or just answering a question about RJ who has been out sick not being able to get his work in as he did usually. The first part ofnthe asnwer talked about RJ going through this lasy year and Thibs wasn't worried.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[Capn'O]

They are competent and coherent. That's more than we usually get. We've had a spot of bad luck so far this year.

I thought as well. Defended most of their moves this offseason, if not as great, understandable in a certain context that seemed good - that it was ok to run back MOSTLY last years team, build off success, and address more scoring variety at the wing and get a "good backup" level PG in Kemba, who would start, with Rose being the starting PG off the bench.

But know I have to wonder about that competence if they couldn't suss out Randle might regress hard, or that their pro player guys weren't warning that Kemba's defense at the point of attack would really hurt the team badly. Especially when added to Fournier.

I mean, they got that part wrong, but it's not as if the other part isn't the same. Tread water as an "ok" team and be able to make the bigger move.

Still, the team had 57 million in cap space. Again, I'm aware of the fact that backup PG, backup C, backup wing, starting wing, starting PG needed to be addressed, so it's not like it could have gone to two players and that's it. And maybe we should make it 44 million, because Rose was coming back, so that's timing.

But feel like maybe better moves could have been made instead of Kemba (still cheap, at least), Fournier and Noel. Even if it cost the always impressive Burks!

Something is not right about a club if they can’t figure out Randle’s playoff disaster made him not worth giving the bag. After that meltdown Randle wasn’t worth more than Fournier got.

So their need to fill the roster or retain an “asset” got the better of them AGAIN.

Is Brock Aller any good? Does he truly influence their personnel decisions?

What I don’t see anyone saying lately is RANDLE WAS STILL UNDER CONTRACT FOR ONE MORE YEAR.

They could have easily made their assessment about his value for an extension or a trade by just playing him and doing contract talks later.

As of now, Randle is a con man who decided this was his big pay day so he doesn’t have to work on both ends any longer or refine his game again now that it has gone ragged.

The Knicks FO got snookered. It undermines any argument about their competence unless they use Randle to successfully make the big trade. Because building around him is Fugazi nonsense.

Well, I didn't say they were visionary.

They didn't really give him the bag though. I mean, don't get me wrong, he makes a lot of money. But it's commensurate with guys like DeRozan and Middleton. It's a fair deal.

Really doesn't feel like they did their homework on Kemba aside from getting a name. It's one thing for me to not know that his knees were not salvageable - I didn't watch a minute of the Celtics in last year's playoffs - but they should have known that. That feels like an homage to the old "winning is not integral to the strategy" of James Dolan.


I'm less concerned about the contracts they signed and more concerned that the young guys don't look like prime assets. Until we get that piece right we'll be pretty limited in what we can do. There wasn't really an immediate path to greatness but we stunted the longer road.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Read on Twitter

?t=UlRBvEomoCXbTcI1-6bwCg&s=19

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

?t=UlRBvEomoCXbTcI1-6bwCg&s=19

IQ
Burks
RJ
Obi
Randle

[sol537]

Read on Twitter

?t=UlRBvEomoCXbTcI1-6bwCg&s=19

Probably...

Starters: Rose, Fournier, RJ, Randle, Noel
Bench: IQ, Burks, Obi, Mitch

[Reign23]

Read on Twitter

?t=UlRBvEomoCXbTcI1-6bwCg&s=19

IQ
Burks
RJ
Obi
Randle

that would be incredible. and thats the reason it won't ever happen.
probably

Rose
Burks
Fournier
Randle
Noel

[god shammgod]

Have you watched Noel ? He’s barely able to move with his injuries. He ain’t starting.

[god shammgod]

He’s gonna start rose or iq. And one of rj or Fournier will be benched I would guess.

[Deeeez Knicks]

My guess: Rose starts, and Kemba plays off the bench

Mitch / Noel or Taj
Randle / Obi
RJ / Burks
Fournier / IQ
Rose / Kemba

[Jalen Bluntson]

For sure - and we haven't been burdened with dead cap space and unmovable contracts, and we still have a ton of draft capital for the future. Recent history isn't always the best metric, but considering where we've come from, it's still a major step forward.

I would argue that Randle Evan and Kemba are burdens with Kemba being dead cap space. I really don't see any trade involving any of them. Maybe Kemba as filler with a pick or two attached? What team needs a 30mil bench PF? 20mil inconsistent no D SG? Broken leg 10mil PG? Dead cap for two years and Randle for 4.

Kemba is a $9mm expiring contract next season, which is basically the average NBA salary. He may even retire or get bought out next season if there's no place for him.

Fornier is a $17mm deal that puts him in the same category as Derrick White, Eric Gordon, Davis Bertrans, Markelle Fultz, i.e. secondary role players. Therefore, he's not paid out of whack for what he provides compared to the rest of the NBA.

Randle, whether you like it or not, is our best player - just not good enough to be a true number one. He'll make a touch more than Draymond Green but less than Derozan, Al Horford, Ingram, Hayward, and CJ McCollum. i.e. in the same range as other second tier star players.

Not that I see Fornier or Randle being moved, but their contracts are fair for the market. Kemba, sure you can say he'll need assets to be moved right now, but his contract is small and won't exactly hamper our team building. Again, all things considered, I'd say we're in decent shape, especially in consideration of where we've come from.

We went from total cap flexibility to half the cap tied into those three players this year and next. No one is trading for any of those guys. None of those guys are worth what they are getting. They won't be traded because they suck and are overpaid. That's dead money basically. The FO screwed the pooch building this roster.

[Jadoogar]

This all goes back to the nightmare that was the 2019 offseason.

What we're seeing are just the residual effects of that summer.

Knicks:

> Entered the lottery with the best odds to land the #1 pick, fell back to #3
> Missed out on two generational prospects at #1 and #2, passed on a great talent in Garland to draft a bust in RJ
> Missed out on KD and Kyrie, who signed with the neighbor Nets to add insult to injury
> Signed Elfrid Payton and Julius Randle

Just a complete and utter disaster all-around.

would Zion have been better? dude has barely played. just shows much luck is a factor in the draft.