[Wolfson] Toronto Raptors are a team to keep an eye on

[Johnny Bball]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

Lol, it cost time? Did you even read my post at all? It cost nothing but money and provides flexibility. It actually gives you until the deadline to do something so saying it costs time, other than the time to trade or cut him is inconsequential and just an excuse for actually not understanding why they even took his contract. Nobody says it has to work out and they won't just waive him. Again, it costs none of the future of this team, which is ALL that matters. It's isn't urgent in any single solitary way.

And first off, I didn't quote you. Second, it's hilarious that all of a sudden you find that to be an insult while you ignored it the 10+ other times its been used recently around here when it agreed with your narrative. As opposed to my "poor understanding of management" which isn't an insult right?

Time is a resource just like money.

Overvaluing the time it takes the staff vs the flexibility it provides to add to the future is just bad resource management.

[NBA Sheady]

Towns for booshay and dragic?

Perhaps if they kick in a few 1sts and cash considerations.

[Kevin Willis]

Trent is shooting 41.5% very close to career average. That doesn't cut it for a SG. At some point, people have to accept reality instead of touting his age all the time. Its his 4th season, and you need to show efficiency improvement. There's been none so far and his mediocre shot creation combined with steaky shooting makes him a trade candidate.

He takes so many 3s (more than half of his FG attempts are 3s) that it's not really useful to look at his FG%. His career 3pt % is 39%, which is very good for the amount he takes and he's sitting at 36% this year. You'd expect this normalize as the season goes on.

His overall efficiency does need to improve. His career TS% is .544 and he's slightly below that this year. But age does matter here. Not many guys in their early 20s, with a relatively high usage are efficient right from the start of their careers.

The other part of this is that GTJ is an impact defender. He's a disrupter who creates of a lot of turnovers, deflections and fastbreak opportunities.

In the end, everyone is tradeable if you get the right offer but he can be a building block moving forward because he can impact both sides of the floor.

Agree. Like Norm, GT Jr is a borderline starter except younger, a better defender and more clutch. You don't want to give that away unless you're getting a steal.

We should be looking at teams that want to compete or teams that are a total mess if we want to pull off a steal. LIke Bagley for Trent or Dragic and Boucher for Hield (Actually Hield and Trent Jr. similar numbers).

[Raptors_128]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

The trade was never about Dragic.

The Raps just needed his salary to make the Precious deal work. The deal was about acquiring Precious and the only way to make it work was to take Dragic's contract.

He hasn't been a distraction in the locker room. His salary can still be used in a large deal. I don't understand the urgency to make a move.

If the trade was taking on $19 million of dead money for Achiuwa, we got fleeced. Terrible trade.

The opportunity cost we lost out on is that we could have used the cap space to sign another player that fit the roster (Holmes) to improve the team or take on a bad contracts for picks.

We could have taken on Favors contract for a 1st AND signed Holmes.

We could have acquired Kemba Walker in a salary dump for Sengun (16th pick) who looks to be a good young player.

[Psubs]

Boucher for towns and picks
Dragic for Eric Gordon

Towns , awchua
Siakam, BIRCH
OG, Barnes
Trend, Eric Gordon
Fred, Barton

Who are we trading to get Barton? He's a shooting guard last I checked, I don't think he can play the 1.

Neither can Fred, yet here we are.

Barton is up to like 4-5 assists per game with only 1.5 turnovers I believe so he is fine as a combo-guard.

[ontnut]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

Lol, it cost time? Did you even read my post at all? It cost nothing but money and provides flexibility. It actually gives you until the deadline to do something so saying it costs time, other than the time to trade or cut him is inconsequential and just an excuse for actually not understanding why they even took his contract. Nobody says it has to work out and they won't just waive him. Again, it costs none of the future of this team, which is ALL that matters. It's isn't urgent in any single solitary way.

And first off, I didn't quote you. Second, it's hilarious that all of a sudden you find that to be an insult while you ignored it the 10+ other times its been used recently around here when it agreed with your narrative. As opposed to my "poor understanding of management" which isn't an insult right?

Time is a resource just like money.

What is the opportunity cost of keeping Dragic? What would we have done with this "time" that would've been rectified by buying him out? I don't get this line of thinking.

[will]

Higher ambitions.

[OakleyDokely]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

The trade was never about Dragic.

The Raps just needed his salary to make the Precious deal work. The deal was about acquiring Precious and the only way to make it work was to take Dragic's contract.

He hasn't been a distraction in the locker room. His salary can still be used in a large deal. I don't understand the urgency to make a move.

If the trade was taking on $19 million of dead money for Achiuwa, we got fleeced. Terrible trade.

The opportunity cost we lost out on is that we could have used the cap space to sign another player that fit the roster (Holmes) to improve the team or take on a bad contracts for picks.

We could have taken on Favors contract for a 1st AND signed Holmes.

We could have acquired Kemba Walker in a salary dump for Sengun (16th pick) who looks to be a good young player.

Holmes is 28 and makes 4x what Precious makes. Holmes is nice player to add if you want to win now, but that's not the direction the Raps are going in.

Precious is a recent 1st rounder, he's on a cheap deal and he has a good deal of potential. I understand why the raps went this route. He fits the Raps timeline better.

[nikster]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

The trade was never about Dragic.

The Raps just needed his salary to make the Precious deal work. The deal was about acquiring Precious and the only way to make it work was to take Dragic's contract.

He hasn't been a distraction in the locker room. His salary can still be used in a large deal. I don't understand the urgency to make a move.

If the trade was taking on $19 million of dead money for Achiuwa, we got fleeced. Terrible trade.

The opportunity cost we lost out on is that we could have used the cap space to sign another player that fit the roster (Holmes) to improve the team or take on a bad contracts for picks.

We could have taken on Favors contract for a 1st AND signed Holmes.

We could have acquired Kemba Walker in a salary dump for Sengun (16th pick) who looks to be a good young player.

Those that criticize these moves always show a poor understanding of the NBA land scape an offer unrealistic alternatives. An expiring contract and a young big on a rookie deal is good value.

It seems you dont understand the value difference between an expiring contract and a player who has guaranteed money on the books in Favours. We had the cap space for Holmes as it is and still didnt sign him, what makes you think we would have if we made the deal with Uta?

How could we have executed the Kemba trade?

[Indeed]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

Lol, it cost time? Did you even read my post at all? It cost nothing but money and provides flexibility. It actually gives you until the deadline to do something so saying it costs time, other than the time to trade or cut him is inconsequential and just an excuse for actually not understanding why they even took his contract. Nobody says it has to work out and they won't just waive him. Again, it costs none of the future of this team, which is ALL that matters. It's isn't urgent in any single solitary way.

And first off, I didn't quote you. Second, it's hilarious that all of a sudden you find that to be an insult while you ignored it the 10+ other times its been used recently around here when it agreed with your narrative. As opposed to my "poor understanding of management" which isn't an insult right?

I guess it is not a negative, but neither a positive.
Perhaps we tried to use that money for Allen, who was matched by the Cavs. (Exactly 20m for his new contract)

With our majority of salary tied up by our starters, the expiring isn't bad for us. If we are to resolve any of our existing issue, we will need to trade one of our bigger contract(s). Dragic (and even adding Boucher) won't fix our issue.

[DelAbbot]

Dragic if bought out definitely cost the raptors money this year (for the benefit of facilitating acquiring Achiuwa)

https://theathletic.com/806297/2019/02/08/picks-cash-and-roster-space-explaining-the-raptors-cap-sheet-and-deadline-deals/

Raptors traded two 2nd round picks to save money (luxury tax) back in 2018/2019 - this shows that the amount of money spent (whether above or below luxury tax) means a good deal to our FO. You may argue it's only the owner's money, but I'm sure our FO operates on a financial constraint measured not just by "did we cross the luxury tax line?" - as a fiduciary duty to the owners.

With that in mind, Achiuwa is not worth the cost of Dragic doing nothing for us (now or future) for 19M

[execoftheyear]

we've heard over & again that Pascal is available. I think rehabbing his value is a top priority this season

obviously with the new core of players Pascal/FVV don't quite fit the timeline, and you have to think this team is headed to the lottery at least once more before we aim to be contenders

might make sense to blow it up now and get things fast tracked

at the same time I do think we're one star player away from being a true contender. you have to hand it to Masai, we're always in position to go move in any direction & let the market dictate what we do. other teams will be forced to make bad trades because they are in dire "win now" mode while other losing teams have nothing beyond their picks to offer to improve

Pascal and FVV are in their prime and arguably haven't reached their peaks yet. Pascal just came off a major surgery (wouldn't be wise to trade him while his value is so low) and FVV seems like the type of player that could potentially keep getting better with age similar to Lowry.

Realistically, I don't see Masai giving up on players this early after rewarding them with generous contracts. I predict he'll address this team's weaknesses before trading major pieces to maximize the performance of this current roster. If a major move will be made it will be an opportunistic move at the trade deadline where a desperate team is willing to trade a star Masai highly covets but then you have to consider other teams will be competing with eachother, throwing away future picks which we know Masai is reluctant to give up.

[VanWest82]

With that in mind, Achiuwa is not worth the cost of Dragic doing nothing for us (now or future) for 19M

Yes he is, or at least it remains to be seen depending how he develops. It seems clear based on the discussion post trade that we were very interested in taking Precious in 2020 draft had he fallen to us. One year of dead money is nothing. We're not trying to win this year. We're rebuilding and we need prospects like Precious in order to do that.

[ontnut]

Keeping Dragic cost you time. Why is the concept of opportunity cost so foreign here? Always cut your losses early. Nothing wrong with calling it a failure, some moves just don't work out. Still time to include him as salary filler so who knows. Insulting everyone just reveals your poor understanding of management.

The trade was never about Dragic.

The Raps just needed his salary to make the Precious deal work. The deal was about acquiring Precious and the only way to make it work was to take Dragic's contract.

He hasn't been a distraction in the locker room. His salary can still be used in a large deal. I don't understand the urgency to make a move.

If the trade was taking on $19 million of dead money for Achiuwa, we got fleeced. Terrible trade.

The opportunity cost we lost out on is that we could have used the cap space to sign another player that fit the roster (Holmes) to improve the team or take on a bad contracts for picks.

We could have taken on Favors contract for a 1st AND signed Holmes.

We could have acquired Kemba Walker in a salary dump for Sengun (16th pick) who looks to be a good young player.

The Favors trade was for a 2024 1st top 10 protected (it may not convey in 2024, depending on what happens with the 2022 pick traded to the Grizzlies).
That means we'd be waiting 2 more years at least to get a top 10 protected pick from the Jazz (we'd also have to give up a future 2nd as well) which could very possibly be in the late 20s still.
Is there any guarantee that this player we'd be drafting years down the line, would be any better than Precious, who was a fairly well known quantity to Masai?

And taking on Holmes has been debated to death, so while he's been super efficient on offense this year, I'll give you that, I don't think he fit our timeline and he wasn't going to push us into contention either. $16mil per for 4 years ain't that cheap, especially considering that there is an assumed timeline for the Raptors to get cap space in 23-24. It would be our last year to really add a significant FA to this team (assuming GTJ and FVV decline their options).

The Walker trade happened well before the FA period, likely during a time when the Raptors were still trying to figure out potential Lowry S&T targets, so I don't think taking on Walker was on the books for us at the time, though admittedly, OKC did a great job there. There's also a question of whether BOS would be trading with us (when was the last time we did a deal with Boston? 15 years ago with Billups? lol)

[Tacoma]

Lol, it cost time? Did you even read my post at all? It cost nothing but money and provides flexibility. It actually gives you until the deadline to do something so saying it costs time, other than the time to trade or cut him is inconsequential and just an excuse for actually not understanding why they even took his contract. Nobody says it has to work out and they won't just waive him. Again, it costs none of the future of this team, which is ALL that matters. It's isn't urgent in any single solitary way.

And first off, I didn't quote you. Second, it's hilarious that all of a sudden you find that to be an insult while you ignored it the 10+ other times its been used recently around here when it agreed with your narrative. As opposed to my "poor understanding of management" which isn't an insult right?

Time is a resource just like money.

What is the opportunity cost of keeping Dragic? What would we have done with this "time" that would've been rectified by buying him out? I don't get this line of thinking.

When you choose one option among many alternatives, the opportunity cost is the hypothetical cost of lost benefit that could've been derived from the options you didn't choose. Time is a variable in this equation because (1) more time provides potentially for more opportunities, and (2) for each opportunity, greater time means you can enjoy the benefit for longer.

That said, I would change the narrative from opportunity cost to sunk cost. What's done is done and we should only look forward. At this point, I see greater benefit from keeping Dragic to buy time to see if any trade opportunities arise between now and the trade deadline. If nothing arises, then we buy him out and he goes to Dallas as the most likely scenario.

[ontnut]

Dragic if bought out definitely cost the raptors money this year (for the benefit of facilitating acquiring Achiuwa)

https://theathletic.com/806297/2019/02/08/picks-cash-and-roster-space-explaining-the-raptors-cap-sheet-and-deadline-deals/

Raptors traded two 2nd round picks to save money (luxury tax) back in 2018/2019 - this shows that the amount of money spent (whether above or below luxury tax) means a good deal to our FO. You may argue it's only the owner's money, but I'm sure our FO operates on a financial constraint measured not just by "did we cross the luxury tax line?" - as a fiduciary duty to the owners.

With that in mind, Achiuwa is not worth the cost of Dragic doing nothing for us (now or future) for 19M

And yet in another thread, people are talking about taking on Love's contract for a future 1st, which I believe would cost $50 mil in future salary (and still requires Dragic and Boucher to facilitate, so minus their contracts it would be over $30 mil in remaining $$)...
The Kemba deal cost the Thunder I think $33 million to get that 16th overall pick (Kemba gave up $20 mil, but I think he had like $53 left on his deal).
So considering that, $19 mil for a previous year's 1st round pick isn't horrible, is it?

[ontnut]

Time is a resource just like money.

What is the opportunity cost of keeping Dragic? What would we have done with this "time" that would've been rectified by buying him out? I don't get this line of thinking.

When you choose one option among many alternatives, the opportunity cost is the hypothetical cost of lost benefit that could've been derived from the options you didn't choose. Time is a variable in this equation because (1) more time provides potentially for more opportunities, and (2) for each opportunity, greater time means you can enjoy the benefit for longer.

That said, I would change the narrative from opportunity cost to sunk cost. What's done is done and we should only look forward. At this point, I see greater benefit from keeping Dragic to buy time to see if any trade opportunities arise between now and the trade deadline. If nothing arises, then we buy him out and he goes to Dallas as the most likely scenario.

I know what opportunity cost is, I'm just saying, what opportunity was missed by keeping Dragic instead of waiving him from the start? I believe none - in fact, we would've lost the opportunity to trade Dragic down the line. Waiving him from the start would've been a mistake.

[OakleyDokely]

The only reason to waive/cut Dragic now was if he was a bad teammate or a distraction. This hasn't been the case.

Dragic still provides potential value because his contract can be used in a potential trade.

[djsunyc]

dragic + flynn + champagnie + future lotto protected 1st for turner. and that's still a maybe for me.

[Tha Cynic]

Whatever trade this team makes, their first target should be someone who can make Khem Birch the second best Center on the team.