Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[winforlose]

Sabonis and KAT would be a train wreck defensively and I don't think we can afford to go back down that path.

Turner is the play. He's the better defender and better shooter while still being a great rebounder. The only part of his game that he significantly falls behind Sabonis is in AST% but he makes up ground with his absurd BLK% (leads the league, in fact).

Given how we play and our needs, I don't see why we'd try rocking the boat enough with Sabonis when a far better fit is potentially available in Turner.

I keep harping about putting KAT at the 4 like Nowitzki, but realistically, does anyone see that working out? KAT + Turner front court means we'll be the slowest team in the league. Can KAT guard PF's and other wings when he has to go out to the perimeter? Well to be fair, he can't really guard anyone...so I guess it's worth a shot.

The idea would be that Turner would cover a lot of those assignments.

It's not perfect, but then again "perfect" is a unicorn. Like a 6-10ish, long, athletic 4 that can slide down to the 5 or switch on the perimeter and hit 3s? That's what everyone is hunting for these days and you can probably count those players on 1 hand.

But a 3 man rotation of KAT, Turner and Vando should cover us for just about anything.

This plus zones can really help as well. Also, instead of rotation, I would use V8 at the 3 and say that lineup can cover just about anything.

[Wolveswin]

To Pacers: Edwards + Prince + Horford + 2022 Wolves 1st

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beverley + LeVert

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Pritchard

Pacers accelerate their rebuild with Edwards and 1st from Wolves.

Celtics swap Brown for Sabonis while backfilling LeVert at SG. Beverley gives them a vet PG option.

Wolves trade Edwards to go for win now around Towns.

Turner | Towns | Reid
Towns | JV | McDaniels
JV | Brown | McDaniels
Brown | Beasley | Bolmaro
Russell | Pritchard | McJordan

[winforlose]

To Pacers: Edwards + Prince + Horford + 2022 Wolves 1st

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beverley + LeVert

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Pritchard

Pacers accelerate their rebuild with Edwards and 1st from Wolves.

Celtics swap Brown for Sabonis while backfilling LeVert at SG. Beverley gives them a vet PG option.

Wolves trade Edwards to go for win now around Towns.

Turner | Towns | Reid
Towns | JV | McDaniels
JV | Brown | McDaniels
Brown | Beasley | Bolmaro
Russell | Pritchard | McJordan

Payton Pritchard has imploded. Take what happened to MCD this year compared to last year and multiply by a factor of 3. He is borderline unplayable at the moment. I want him as a cheap reclamation project, but not as backup to a serious run. Beverly is too valuable to lose. Also Brown has had injury issues this season and I am unsure of his long term health this season. Apparently it’s a lingering hamstring injury.

[Wolf_Cry]

Sabonis and KAT would be a train wreck defensively and I don't think we can afford to go back down that path.

Turner is the play. He's the better defender and better shooter while still being a great rebounder. The only part of his game that he significantly falls behind Sabonis is in AST% but he makes up ground with his absurd BLK% (leads the league, in fact).

Given how we play and our needs, I don't see why we'd try rocking the boat enough with Sabonis when a far better fit is potentially available in Turner.

I keep harping about putting KAT at the 4 like Nowitzki, but realistically, does anyone see that working out? KAT + Turner front court means we'll be the slowest team in the league. Can KAT guard PF's and other wings when he has to go out to the perimeter? Well to be fair, he can't really guard anyone...so I guess it's worth a shot.

The idea would be that Turner would cover a lot of those assignments.

It's not perfect, but then again "perfect" is a unicorn. Like a 6-10ish, long, athletic 4 that can slide down to the 5 or switch on the perimeter and hit 3s? That's what everyone is hunting for these days and you can probably count those players on 1 hand.

But a 3 man rotation of KAT, Turner and Vando should cover us for just about anything.

It sounds good in theory, but Indie already has this with Sabonis and Turner, and they're giving that up easily. I wonder why? Makes me double doubt KAT + Turner would work as effectively as many think. Sabonis isn't quite the shooter KAT is, but he's a better athlete and defender. I don't know, but I'm willing to try anything at this point since this team gets physically punished every game.

[shangrila]

I keep harping about putting KAT at the 4 like Nowitzki, but realistically, does anyone see that working out? KAT + Turner front court means we'll be the slowest team in the league. Can KAT guard PF's and other wings when he has to go out to the perimeter? Well to be fair, he can't really guard anyone...so I guess it's worth a shot.

The idea would be that Turner would cover a lot of those assignments.

It's not perfect, but then again "perfect" is a unicorn. Like a 6-10ish, long, athletic 4 that can slide down to the 5 or switch on the perimeter and hit 3s? That's what everyone is hunting for these days and you can probably count those players on 1 hand.

But a 3 man rotation of KAT, Turner and Vando should cover us for just about anything.

It sounds good in theory, but Indie already has this with Sabonis and Turner, and they're giving that up easily. I wonder why? Makes me double doubt KAT + Turner would work as effectively as many think. Sabonis isn't quite the shooter KAT is, but he's a better athlete and defender. I don't know, but I'm willing to try anything at this point since this team gets physically punished every game.

He might be a better post defender but I do think KAT has quicker feet so I'd give him the overall edge, and doubly so in a switch heavy defence like ours.

And as you say, we need to try something to deal with the physicality. Plus, even if we overlook the defensive side of things, offensively I'd rather get a 3pt shooter to play off KAT than turn KAT into a 3pt shooter that needs to space for Sabonis.

On top of all of that too, we really don't need another focal point offence guy. It should be clear by now we barely have enough shots to spread around after DLo, Ant and KAT as it is. We need low usage guys, like Turner or Vando, to compliment what we've already got.

[Dewey]

Until our shooters display some level of consistency, I think it’s safe to say we’ll be in the outside looking in unless we are willing to dump future picks.

Between DLo, Ant, and Beas we have far too many 0-6, 1-9, 3-13 type performances - simply unreliable any given night. That’s just not a good vibe. You look at Beverly, Vando, and Kat (for example) and they just need two of those 3 guys to consistently score and it’s not happening. We need to make some moves, but we’ll need to give up future assets to do anything.

[BlacJacMac]

Sabonis and KAT would be a train wreck defensively and I don't think we can afford to go back down that path.

Turner is the play. He's the better defender and better shooter while still being a great rebounder. The only part of his game that he significantly falls behind Sabonis is in AST% but he makes up ground with his absurd BLK% (leads the league, in fact).

Given how we play and our needs, I don't see why we'd try rocking the boat enough with Sabonis when a far better fit is potentially available in Turner.

I love Turner, but rebounding is not a strength. It's a pretty sizable weakness.

I get that Sabonis is a terrific rebounder, but he's not what is holding back Turner. There are plenty of rebounds Indy is not getting. This year is the only time they haven't been a bottom 3rd (or worse) rebounding team with Turner and Sabonis:

2021-22: ORB%: 11th, DRB%: 3rd
2020-21: ORB%: 26th, DRB%: 30th
2019-20: ORB%: 29th, DRB%: 21st
2018-19: ORB%: 21st, DRB%: 23rd
2017-18: ORB%: 12th, DRB%: 26th

Turner is the exact same rebounder he was when he came into the league. His two years before Sabonis are exactly in line with the 4+ years he's played with him.

[shangrila]

Sabonis and KAT would be a train wreck defensively and I don't think we can afford to go back down that path.

Turner is the play. He's the better defender and better shooter while still being a great rebounder. The only part of his game that he significantly falls behind Sabonis is in AST% but he makes up ground with his absurd BLK% (leads the league, in fact).

Given how we play and our needs, I don't see why we'd try rocking the boat enough with Sabonis when a far better fit is potentially available in Turner.

I love Turner, but rebounding is not a strength. It's a pretty sizable weakness.

I get that Sabonis is a terrific rebounder, but he's not what is holding back Turner. There are plenty of rebounds Indy is not getting. This year is the only time they haven't been a bottom 3rd (or worse) rebounding team with Turner and Sabonis:

2021-22: ORB%: 11th, DRB%: 3rd
2020-21: ORB%: 26th, DRB%: 30th
2019-20: ORB%: 29th, DRB%: 21st
2018-19: ORB%: 21st, DRB%: 23rd
2017-18: ORB%: 12th, DRB%: 26th

Turner is the exact same rebounder he was when he came into the league. His two years before Sabonis are exactly in line with the 4+ years he's played with him.

He'd be our 2nd best rebounder by DRB%. So maybe you're right, but he'd be an improvement for us.

Which might say more about this team but still.

[minimus]

I'd ask IND about Torrey Craig. If they make a trade this season, they might not want keep next year. So Layman for Craig would bring us another experienced defender, a big wing who can occasionaly hit open threes.

Another trade is Prince, two 2nd round picks for Daniel Theis. Kind of delayed sign-n-trade. Re-sign Beverley

Next year rotation

KAT/Reid/Theis
Vando/Theis/Knight
Edwards/MCD/Craig
Beverly/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Bolmaro/JMac

[Klomp]

Sabonis and KAT would be a train wreck defensively and I don't think we can afford to go back down that path.

Turner is the play. He's the better defender and better shooter while still being a great rebounder. The only part of his game that he significantly falls behind Sabonis is in AST% but he makes up ground with his absurd BLK% (leads the league, in fact).

Given how we play and our needs, I don't see why we'd try rocking the boat enough with Sabonis when a far better fit is potentially available in Turner.

I love Turner, but rebounding is not a strength. It's a pretty sizable weakness.

I get that Sabonis is a terrific rebounder, but he's not what is holding back Turner. There are plenty of rebounds Indy is not getting. This year is the only time they haven't been a bottom 3rd (or worse) rebounding team with Turner and Sabonis:

2021-22: ORB%: 11th, DRB%: 3rd
2020-21: ORB%: 26th, DRB%: 30th
2019-20: ORB%: 29th, DRB%: 21st
2018-19: ORB%: 21st, DRB%: 23rd
2017-18: ORB%: 12th, DRB%: 26th

Turner is the exact same rebounder he was when he came into the league. His two years before Sabonis are exactly in line with the 4+ years he's played with him.

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[BlacJacMac]

And Towns is having, by far, his worst rebounding season. That 14% is a long ways from his career average of 18.8%.

[mplsfonz23]

To Pacers: Edwards + Prince + Horford + 2022 Wolves 1st

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beverley + LeVert

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Pritchard

Pacers accelerate their rebuild with Edwards and 1st from Wolves.

Celtics swap Brown for Sabonis while backfilling LeVert at SG. Beverley gives them a vet PG option.

Wolves trade Edwards to go for win now around Towns.

Turner | Towns | Reid
Towns | JV | McDaniels
JV | Brown | McDaniels
Brown | Beasley | Bolmaro
Russell | Pritchard | McJordan

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

[moss_is_1]

I'd ask IND about Torrey Craig. If they make a trade this season, they might not want keep next year. So Layman for Craig would bring us another experienced defender, a big wing who can occasionaly hit open threes.

Another trade is Prince, two 2nd round picks for Daniel Theis. Kind of delayed sign-n-trade. Re-sign Beverley

Next year rotation

KAT/Reid/Theis
Vando/Theis/Knight
Edwards/MCD/Craig
Beverly/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Bolmaro/JMac

I'm not giving up as expiring Prince with 2nds, to pay Theis. I get we need a bigman but we shouldn't be that desperate to shell assets out for a 3rd string center.

[Wolveswin]

To Pacers: Edwards + Prince + Horford + 2022 Wolves 1st

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beverley + LeVert

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Pritchard

Pacers accelerate their rebuild with Edwards and 1st from Wolves.

Celtics swap Brown for Sabonis while backfilling LeVert at SG. Beverley gives them a vet PG option.

Wolves trade Edwards to go for win now around Towns.

Turner | Towns | Reid
Towns | JV | McDaniels
JV | Brown | McDaniels
Brown | Beasley | Bolmaro
Russell | Pritchard | McJordan

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

Why would you not?

Can Edwards be better than Brown? Sure. He can also bust and not be. None the less, getting a current top 25 player, 25yo, 3 years control on value deal isn’t drug crazy. Come on.

Oh and BTW, they also get Turner. Not a bad value add for the pain of trading Edwards’ upside.

[minimus]

I'd ask IND about Torrey Craig. If they make a trade this season, they might not want keep next year. So Layman for Craig would bring us another experienced defender, a big wing who can occasionaly hit open threes.

Another trade is Prince, two 2nd round picks for Daniel Theis. Kind of delayed sign-n-trade. Re-sign Beverley

Next year rotation

KAT/Reid/Theis
Vando/Theis/Knight
Edwards/MCD/Craig
Beverly/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Bolmaro/JMac

I'm not giving up as expiring Prince with 2nds, to pay Theis. I get we need a bigman but we shouldn't be that desperate to shell assets out for a 3rd string center.

Well, we have three 2nd round picks next year. If Theis does not fit, he has tradeble 8mil contract. He is not a flashy player, but he gets job done.

[Baseline81]

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

Wolveswin wants to watch the world burn -- he often posts trades involving Edwards or Towns.

[winforlose]

To Pacers: Edwards + Prince + Horford + 2022 Wolves 1st

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beverley + LeVert

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Pritchard

Pacers accelerate their rebuild with Edwards and 1st from Wolves.

Celtics swap Brown for Sabonis while backfilling LeVert at SG. Beverley gives them a vet PG option.

Wolves trade Edwards to go for win now around Towns.

Turner | Towns | Reid
Towns | JV | McDaniels
JV | Brown | McDaniels
Brown | Beasley | Bolmaro
Russell | Pritchard | McJordan

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

Why would you not?

Can Edwards be better than Brown? Sure. He can also bust and not be. None the less, getting a current top 25 player, 25yo, 3 years control on value deal isn’t drug crazy. Come on.

Oh and BTW, they also get Turner. Not a bad value add for the pain of trading Edwards’ upside.

I will give you 3 reasons.

1. We would lack a PG besides Russell. Pritchard has imploded and is barely playable (if at all.)

2. The money would be a big problem. Brown is 24,26,28 guy and Turner is 18, 18 then pay raise. Ant is a smaller contract and Beasley savings are wiped by Turner.

3. Brown has hamstring issues this season and might not be as ready to return as you think.

[shangrila]

And Towns is having, by far, his worst rebounding season. That 14% is a long ways from his career average of 18.8%.

The main difference between Turner and these other guys is offensive rebounding %. That’s what tends to drop him so much lower, and it makes sense given his role player status and 3pa rate.

[BlacJacMac]

And Towns is having, by far, his worst rebounding season. That 14% is a long ways from his career average of 18.8%.

The main difference between Turner and these other guys is offensive rebounding %. That’s what tends to drop him so much lower, and it makes sense given his role player status and 3pa rate.

Turner is a career 20% for defensive rebounding. That's not good for a center. And his defensive role of shotblocker should have him around the basket on defense.

He's definitely a better rebounder than Naz, but that's a low bar.

[King Malta]

Turner may not be a great rebounder but he's at least got the legit size to perform that role (or at least offer a bigger body for boxing out opposition 5s). Regardless he's a better 3pt shooter than just about anybody we have outside of Towns and he'd be a better defender than everyone outside of Beverley.

He'd be a great fit for us.