[Charania] Pacers Open To Trading Myles Turner Or Damontas Sabonis

[OakleyDokely]

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For such a talented guy Sabonis doesn't equate to winning despite having the ball in his hands the most. He's like Kevin Love in Minny. Just a good player putting up great numbers on a bad team. They had Nate McMillan, then Nate Bjorkgren, and now poor Carlisle is figuring out what to do building around Sabonis.

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

Turner sounds good on paper but he's wildly inconsistent from game to game. He's a 12/7 big who blocks shots (and he's been that same guy for years). He has value as a solid starting calibre player but teams don't want to give these type of bigs 20+ million a year.

[Psubs]

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For such a talented guy Sabonis doesn't equate to winning despite having the ball in his hands the most. He's like Kevin Love in Minny. Just a good player putting up great numbers on a bad team. They had Nate McMillan, then Nate Bjorkgren, and now poor Carlisle is figuring out what to do building around Sabonis.

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

I disagree. I made mental notes a couple of years ago that Sabonis is the only reason why the Pacers are not a perrenial lottery team, though they are a treadmill. I would say his value is more like Marc Gasol, though better on offense and slightly worse on defense. Also the Raptors would be getting him entering his prime instead of exiting his prime.

[720]

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For such a talented guy Sabonis doesn't equate to winning despite having the ball in his hands the most. He's like Kevin Love in Minny. Just a good player putting up great numbers on a bad team. They had Nate McMillan, then Nate Bjorkgren, and now poor Carlisle is figuring out what to do building around Sabonis.

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

I disagree. I made mental notes a couple of years ago that Sabonis is the only reason why the Pacers are not a perrenial lottery team, though they are a treadmill. I would say his value is more like Marc Gasol, though better on offense and slightly worse on defense. Also the Raptors would be getting him entering his prime instead of exiting his prime.

He has his flaws, he has trouble during crunch time. Be it missing a bunny layup, not making a crucial free throw, or not executing the final play properly. He often chokes down the stretch.

[brownbobcat]

Turner sounds good on paper but he's wildly inconsistent from game to game. He's a 12/8 big who blocks shots (and he's been that same guy for years). He has value as a solid starting calibre player but teams don't want to give these type of bigs 20+ million a year.

I mean, Jarret Allen got $20M, Capela got $21M, Steven Adams got $18M - cap keeps going up.

[OakleyDokely]

Turner sounds good on paper but he's wildly inconsistent from game to game. He's a 12/8 big who blocks shots (and he's been that same guy for years). He has value as a solid starting calibre player but teams don't want to give these type of bigs 20+ million a year.

I mean, Jarret Allen got $20M, Capela got $21M, Steven Adams got $18M - cap keeps going up.

Sure, but do you want any of those guys at those price tags other than maybe Allen who has progressed to a 17/11 player this year?

Turner has been the same 12/7 guy for years.

[brownbobcat]

Turner sounds good on paper but he's wildly inconsistent from game to game. He's a 12/8 big who blocks shots (and he's been that same guy for years). He has value as a solid starting calibre player but teams don't want to give these type of bigs 20+ million a year.

I mean, Jarret Allen got $20M, Capela got $21M, Steven Adams got $18M - cap keeps going up.

Sure, but do you want any of those guys at those price tags other than maybe Allen who has progressed to a 17/11 player this year?

Turner has been the same 12/7 guy for years.

Depends on the context, Toronto was giving Ibaka $20M+/yr and it didn't hurt them any.

[Psubs]

I'd be fine giving Sabonis a $100 million / 4 years extension in a couple of years for the rest of his prime.

[OakleyDokely]

I mean, Jarret Allen got $20M, Capela got $21M, Steven Adams got $18M - cap keeps going up.

Sure, but do you want any of those guys at those price tags other than maybe Allen who has progressed to a 17/11 player this year?

Turner has been the same 12/7 guy for years.

Depends on the context, Toronto was giving Ibaka $20M+/yr and it didn't hurt them any.

I think if the Raps were a 50+ win team right now and closer to true contention, adding Turner would make more sense to me.

But for a rebuilding team to give up legit young assets for him, when he's never going to be a top 3 or 4 guy on a championship team, doesn't seem very wise to me. He's a guy contending teams should look at especially if they can get him for a filler contract, a 1st and a decent prospect.

[brownbobcat]

I think if the Raps were a 50+ win team right now and closer to true contention, adding Turner would make more sense to me.

But for a rebuilding team to give up legit young assets for him, when he's never going to be a top 3 or 4 guy on a championship team, doesn't seem very wise to me.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. Raptors need to accumulate 2-3 more borderline starters, not just make a lateral move. I'm not against moving a pick if the right protections are there, but I think Indy will get better offers than that.

I would think Charlotte would have some interest there.

[Los_29]

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For such a talented guy Sabonis doesn't equate to winning despite having the ball in his hands the most. He's like Kevin Love in Minny. Just a good player putting up great numbers on a bad team. They had Nate McMillan, then Nate Bjorkgren, and now poor Carlisle is figuring out what to do building around Sabonis.

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

I disagree. I made mental notes a couple of years ago that Sabonis is the only reason why the Pacers are not a perrenial lottery team, though they are a treadmill. I would say his value is more like Marc Gasol, though better on offense and slightly worse on defense. Also the Raptors would be getting him entering his prime instead of exiting his prime.

Marc Gasol is one of the greatest defensive centers of all-time. Saying Sabonis is "slightly worse" on defense is a massive insult to Marc.

[tecumseh18]

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

Yeah Turner can potentially be an Ibaka type of find, who looked like he was washed up in Orlando. But a lot of that was also his hard work put into his conditioning and offensive game after signing that contract with the raptors.

And that's always the wild card. How hard is the player willing to work on their game? Masai has made it clear it's the single biggest thing the Raps look for.

When Serge first got here, and especially after his disappointing first full season, we wondered about his age and his workout habits. Especially after his youtube channels started metastasizing. But we sure we found the hell out. The guy keeps himself incredibly fit, and clearly works like a demon on every type of shot - floaters, 3-pointers, mid-range.

Don't get the idea that Turner is of that mind-set. But he's still young.

[dTox]

For such a talented guy Sabonis doesn't equate to winning despite having the ball in his hands the most. He's like Kevin Love in Minny. Just a good player putting up great numbers on a bad team. They had Nate McMillan, then Nate Bjorkgren, and now poor Carlisle is figuring out what to do building around Sabonis.

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

I disagree. I made mental notes a couple of years ago that Sabonis is the only reason why the Pacers are not a perrenial lottery team, though they are a treadmill. I would say his value is more like Marc Gasol, though better on offense and slightly worse on defense. Also the Raptors would be getting him entering his prime instead of exiting his prime.

Marc Gasol is one of the greatest defensive centers of all-time. Saying Sabonis is "slightly worse" on defense is a massive insult to Marc.

I was just going to say, you are going from an all time defensive player in Gasol to someone who MAAYYBE is an average defender in Sabonis.

[Psubs]

I think if the Raps were a 50+ win team right now and closer to true contention, adding Turner would make more sense to me.

But for a rebuilding team to give up legit young assets for him, when he's never going to be a top 3 or 4 guy on a championship team, doesn't seem very wise to me.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. Raptors need to accumulate 2-3 more borderline starters, not just make a lateral move. I'm not against moving a pick if the right protections are there, but I think Indy will get better offers than that.

I would think Charlotte would have some interest there.

Ya, Charlotte should trade PJ Washington, Kai Jones, James Bouknight and top 4 protected 1st pick for Sabonis, 2nd pick and cash, and Indiana should take that.

PG Lamelo - Ish
SG Rozier - Batum
SF Hayward - Oubre
PF Bridges - Sabonis
C Sabonis - Plumlee - Nick Richards

PJ is now coming off the bench but would get to start at PF in Indiana.

[Spates]

Myles turner is so uninspiring. He fits a positional need on paper but he's more of a floor raiser than ceiling raiser. He has good utility and would be very effective in certain spots. If we could find him the ball where he's most effective it'd be like having Ibaka again, you know. He wouldn't need to create; just take the open three, step-in for a mid-range, and finish over people at the rim.

Although I'm not certain of the fit I prefer Sabonis as he's the more cerebral and effective player. I'm also not sure how he ranks as an interior defender but I do know that OG has his way with him. I think he would diversify our offense greatly.

[Indeed]

I disagree. I made mental notes a couple of years ago that Sabonis is the only reason why the Pacers are not a perrenial lottery team, though they are a treadmill. I would say his value is more like Marc Gasol, though better on offense and slightly worse on defense. Also the Raptors would be getting him entering his prime instead of exiting his prime.

Marc Gasol is one of the greatest defensive centers of all-time. Saying Sabonis is "slightly worse" on defense is a massive insult to Marc.

I was just going to say, you are going from an all time defensive player in Gasol to someone who MAAYYBE is an average defender in Sabonis.

The Pacers board tells me that Sabonis will not able to play the heavy switching of our defensive system, or at least not with Bjorkgren.

Turner will be the defensive stud, but limited as 3&D at C. Not as quick as Achiuwa, but should hold his own against guards.

[Indeed]

Sure, but do you want any of those guys at those price tags other than maybe Allen who has progressed to a 17/11 player this year?

Turner has been the same 12/7 guy for years.

Depends on the context, Toronto was giving Ibaka $20M+/yr and it didn't hurt them any.

I think if the Raps were a 50+ win team right now and closer to true contention, adding Turner would make more sense to me.

But for a rebuilding team to give up legit young assets for him, when he's never going to be a top 3 or 4 guy on a championship team, doesn't seem very wise to me. He's a guy contending teams should look at especially if they can get him for a filler contract, a 1st and a decent prospect.

20m for starters is pretty much the norm.
Eventually we need an upgrade, holding a bunch of young players who may not be a star may not help us anyway. As long as we are not over paying. Turner will not be putting us into the next level, but neither we are giving up that type of talent in exchange.

As for contender, I think they are more interested in Boucher who has a much smaller contract, and Turner may demand more than a 1st and a decent prospect.

[ontnut]

Man, Pacers brought in Carlisle to coach and now they want to rebuild? Wrong timing to hire Rick...he's a notorious vet guy. Not sure how this is going to work. Has he really ever developed young players?

[Dalek]

Tsarks recently wrote about Turner and it is interesting how Turner is the guy that is always in trade rumours and they never built around him. To me he is like Ibaka, kind of undervalued, but no one his size shoots as many threes and blocks shots. It's like having Chris Boucher who is 30 lbs heavier, and can make shots at 39% from outside. How can a skill set and size like Turner's not be in demand?

Yeah Turner can potentially be an Ibaka type of find, who looked like he was washed up in Orlando. But a lot of that was also his hard work put into his conditioning and offensive game after signing that contract with the raptors.

And that's always the wild card. How hard is the player willing to work on their game? Masai has made it clear it's the single biggest thing the Raps look for.

When Serge first got here, and especially after his disappointing first full season, we wondered about his age and his workout habits. Especially after his youtube channels started metastasizing. But we sure we found the hell out. The guy keeps himself incredibly fit, and clearly works like a demon on every type of shot - floaters, 3-pointers, mid-range.

Don't get the idea that Turner is of that mind-set. But he's still young.

I don't trust that Turner will make some kind of huge leap in Toronto. But, the guy is 24, he is a league leader in blocking shots, holding people to a low field goal percentage similar to Gobert and he can be a reliable release valve on the offense. When Toronto got Ibaka it took time and honestly, until we got Kawhi, it didn't really work that well.

I think adding a high end role player like Turner is another piece you add, just like OG is a great piece and FVV as well. It just makes the team an attractive place to play for a free agent. Kawhi, Kyrie, Beal, Harden, and even Durant are potentially available next year.

[goinrogue]

Sabonis is a Center playing pf cause they have turner. Would rather have sabonis at Center.

[brownbobcat]

Ya, Charlotte should trade PJ Washington, Kai Jones, James Bouknight and top 4 protected 1st pick for Sabonis, 2nd pick and cash, and Indiana should take that.

PG Lamelo - Ish
SG Rozier - Batum
SF Hayward - Oubre
PF Bridges - Sabonis
C Sabonis - Plumlee - Nick Richards

PJ is now coming off the bench but would get to start at PF in Indiana.

Charlotte has been so abysmal for so long, I think Indy could definitely get them to overpay. MJ doesn't seem like the type of owner to let pick protections stand in the way of the playoffs.