Shams: Pacers Moving toward Rebuild; Receptive to Trade Talks

[Scoot McGroot]

They need to forget about Warren and LeVert ever getting healthy, and assemble a proper starting 5

Treat Warren and LeVert as super backups if and when they are available. Don't mess with the continuity and chemistry of the team by constantly shuffling the starting lineup around. The team can never find an identity like that. Just treat Warren and LeVert as superweapons off the bench, whenever they are available

Slide Brogdon and Duarte to the 2 and 3, and get a proper floor general to start at 1. Try to pry Rubio from the Cavaliers

Myles, Domas, Duarte, Brogdon, Rubio

Play that lineup for the rest of the season and let them gel and develope an identity. They can shuffle Warren and LeVert in and out of the bench rotation, but leave the starting 5 intact

Trade Brogdon for a better 3 in the off-season if needed and slide Duarte back to the 2

How do you acquire Rubio in this instance, if you’ve kept Levert and Warren, and all the other starters? Just Lamb?

[Topofthekey]

They need to forget about Warren and LeVert ever getting healthy, and assemble a proper starting 5

Treat Warren and LeVert as super backups if and when they are available. Don't mess with the continuity and chemistry of the team by constantly shuffling the starting lineup around. The team can never find an identity like that. Just treat Warren and LeVert as superweapons off the bench, whenever they are available

Slide Brogdon and Duarte to the 2 and 3, and get a proper floor general to start at 1. Try to pry Rubio from the Cavaliers

Myles, Domas, Duarte, Brogdon, Rubio

Play that lineup for the rest of the season and let them gel and develope an identity. They can shuffle Warren and LeVert in and out of the bench rotation, but leave the starting 5 intact

Trade Brogdon for a better 3 in the off-season if needed and slide Duarte back to the 2

How do you acquire Rubio in this instance, if you’ve kept Levert and Warren, and all the other starters? Just Lamb?

Good question

I think one superweapon off the bench is plenty. One of Warren or LeVert can be used to acquire Rubio

Maybe LeVert + a bunch of 2RPs

Or Lamb + FRP?

Something something

[YogurtProducer]

How about Sabonis/Holiday for Anunoby/Boucher?

VanVleet/Banton/Flynn
Trent JR/Mykhailiuk/Holiday/Johnson
Barnes/Watanable/Champagine
Siakam/Achiuwa/Bonga
Sabonis/Birch

Brogdon/McConnel/Wanamaker
LeVert/Duarte/Lamb
Anunoby/Craig/Brissett
Warren/Boucher/Jackson/Martin
Turner/Bitdaze

Love Anunoby’s game but definitely not a fan of Boucher. Would rather have draft picks and take a flyer on Banton. Also really like Barnes’s abilities but I’m sure he’s untouchable.

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

[Indeed]

How about Sabonis/Holiday for Anunoby/Boucher?

VanVleet/Banton/Flynn
Trent JR/Mykhailiuk/Holiday/Johnson
Barnes/Watanable/Champagine
Siakam/Achiuwa/Bonga
Sabonis/Birch

Brogdon/McConnel/Wanamaker
LeVert/Duarte/Lamb
Anunoby/Craig/Brissett
Warren/Boucher/Jackson/Martin
Turner/Bitdaze

Love Anunoby’s game but definitely not a fan of Boucher. Would rather have draft picks and take a flyer on Banton. Also really like Barnes’s abilities but I’m sure he’s untouchable.

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

[dkb965]

Love Anunoby’s game but definitely not a fan of Boucher. Would rather have draft picks and take a flyer on Banton. Also really like Barnes’s abilities but I’m sure he’s untouchable.

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

I am trying to think of realistic trade scenarios. All I see on here is Raptors fans offering scrubs and 2nd round picks for Turner.

[Scoot McGroot]

Love Anunoby’s game but definitely not a fan of Boucher. Would rather have draft picks and take a flyer on Banton. Also really like Barnes’s abilities but I’m sure he’s untouchable.

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

What insight are you looking for? He’s an absolute game changing defensive center. You can build an entire teams defensive system around him. He’ll block a ton of shots, and intimidate a ton more from ever being taken. He’s always had a promising long-range shot, and is finally starting to hit it consistently. He’s not really a creator or distributor, but he can make a pass here and there. He’s gotten better at attacking close outs and providing some different types of offensive attacks to keep defenders guessing, but he’ll likely never be a 20ppg scorer unless he just hits a ton of 3’s. He’s been jerked around from system to system and coach to coach his entire time in the league, but he’s always made his way with defense first.

[Tom White]

He’s been jerked around from system to system and coach to coach his entire time in the league, but he’s always made his way with defense first.

And is currently playing with a couple guards who ignore him as often as not. Those same guards do that to Sabonis too, so at least he is not alone in this.

[Indeed]

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

I am trying to think of realistic trade scenarios. All I see on here is Raptors fans offering scrubs and 2nd round picks for Turner.

Unless other teams are offering more, it is hard to justify a value. If the value is too low, there will be counter offer. Isn't that supposed to be how things work?

[Wizop]

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

What insight are you looking for? He’s an absolute game changing defensive center.

which is why I'd much prefer to trade Sabonis - unless Carlisle is willing to let Sabonis be a point-center and then I don't want to trade either of them.

[Indeed]

99.99% sure Toronto would not trade OG for Sabonis. Indiana would have to add to the deal for them to even entertain it.

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

What insight are you looking for? He’s an absolute game changing defensive center. You can build an entire teams defensive system around him. He’ll block a ton of shots, and intimidate a ton more from ever being taken. He’s always had a promising long-range shot, and is finally starting to hit it consistently. He’s not really a creator or distributor, but he can make a pass here and there. He’s gotten better at attacking close outs and providing some different types of offensive attacks to keep defenders guessing, but he’ll likely never be a 20ppg scorer unless he just hits a ton of 3’s. He’s been jerked around from system to system and coach to coach his entire time in the league, but he’s always made his way with defense first.

That is good insight for us. I wonder how his ability to switch against quicker players, is he capable of switching?

I guess the Raptors still needs to evaluate how the existing core fits together before knowing which players are expandable. But I feel he is someone the Raptors will be interested in for filling the C spot.

[GutUNC]

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

I am trying to think of realistic trade scenarios. All I see on here is Raptors fans offering scrubs and 2nd round picks for Turner.

Unless other teams are offering more, it is hard to justify a value. If the value is too low, there will be counter offer. Isn't that supposed to be how things work?

If you're a General Manager, sure. We're just people on a message board discussing what a completed deal might looks like so lowballing because "no one else is offering more" is kind of pointless*.

*-not accusing you of this, just speaking generally as a practice

[Lovetron Joe]

Regarding Sabonis. Is his best use as a center or power forward? If traded to the Sixers, to what extend would be be able to play with Embiid?

[Wizop]

Regarding Sabonis. Is his best use as a center or power forward? If traded to the Sixers, to what extend would be be able to play with Embiid?

that's the same question Indiana has with him and Turner playing together. Sabonis should play inside on offense but isn't a shot blocker so Turner plays inside on defense.

[Scoot McGroot]

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

I am trying to think of realistic trade scenarios. All I see on here is Raptors fans offering scrubs and 2nd round picks for Turner.

Unless other teams are offering more, it is hard to justify a value. If the value is too low, there will be counter offer. Isn't that supposed to be how things work?

In real life, sure, but not in these forums. We’re not negotiating tough in that we would get to keep more for our team. We’re discussing what it would actually come to, or what is relatively fair in a vacuum. We don’t get to keep the difference in real life.

Otherwise, the reports are that Indy is in no hurry, and is just willing to listen. It’s not that they’re in a firesale where they’re guaranteed to make a move. So, if you think that a player is worth very little, you just don’t get the player at all. Maybe no one else does, either, or maybe they pay more. But, if you want to improve your team, it generally costs something. And for the sake of constructive dialogue and conversation here, we skip the many, many, many steps of back and forth banter and short handed negotiations to instead discuss reality and what it would realistically cost.

Make sense?

[Scoot McGroot]

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

What insight are you looking for? He’s an absolute game changing defensive center. You can build an entire teams defensive system around him. He’ll block a ton of shots, and intimidate a ton more from ever being taken. He’s always had a promising long-range shot, and is finally starting to hit it consistently. He’s not really a creator or distributor, but he can make a pass here and there. He’s gotten better at attacking close outs and providing some different types of offensive attacks to keep defenders guessing, but he’ll likely never be a 20ppg scorer unless he just hits a ton of 3’s. He’s been jerked around from system to system and coach to coach his entire time in the league, but he’s always made his way with defense first.

That is good insight for us. I wonder how his ability to switch against quicker players, is he capable of switching?

He’s not best in a free switching system. But when he gets switched onto dynamic guys, he’s more than held his own. Ultimately, it’s ideal to keep him within sprinting distance of the rim. It’s where he’s most able to affect the game. But he’s also won games for Indy in end game scenarios locking up premiere players like Luka on the perimeter on switches.

I guess the Raptors still needs to evaluate how the existing core fits together before knowing which players are expandable. But I feel he is someone the Raptors will be interested in for filling the C spot.

I think offensively, Sabonis would be an amazing fit in the Toronto offensive system, but if they fully run the Nate Bjorkgren defensive style of guarding everybody every inch of the half court at all times, he’s a bad fit. Defensively, Turner is an amazing fit in Toronto. Offensively, if the Nate Bjorkgren system was super close to Nurse’s system, then he’s probably underutilized as Nate just insisted he stay only in the corner.

[Scoot McGroot]

Regarding Sabonis. Is his best use as a center or power forward? If traded to the Sixers, to what extend would be be able to play with Embiid?

He’s best as a point-center type guy around the top of the key or the low post. He can play PF, and he has in Indy to coexist with Turner. I think he could coexist with Embiid, but it’s not ideal. Plus, with Tobias Harris, I think that would be a terrible misuse of really good players at the 3-5, with 2 playing out of position to make it work.

[Lovetron Joe]

Regarding Sabonis. Is his best use as a center or power forward? If traded to the Sixers, to what extend would be be able to play with Embiid?

He’s best as a point-center type guy around the top of the key or the low post. He can play PF, and he has in Indy to coexist with Turner. I think he could coexist with Embiid, but it’s not ideal. Plus, with Tobias Harris, I think that would be a terrible misuse of really good players at the 3-5, with 2 playing out of position to make it work.

Thanks!

[Topofthekey]

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

I am trying to think of realistic trade scenarios. All I see on here is Raptors fans offering scrubs and 2nd round picks for Turner.

Unless other teams are offering more, it is hard to justify a value. If the value is too low, there will be counter offer. Isn't that supposed to be how things work?

Sounds like you went to the Daryl Morey school of how to conduct trades

[Scoot McGroot]

Most Raptors fans won't trade OG, and most believe we are building with Siakam-Barnes-OG.
I am also unsure the fit between Sabonis and Siakam, as they both need the paint. Most Ratpors fans are interested in Turner as a 3&D C.

Perhaps Pacers fans can give some insight in Turner, since I didn't watch many Pacers games.

What insight are you looking for? He’s an absolute game changing defensive center. You can build an entire teams defensive system around him. He’ll block a ton of shots, and intimidate a ton more from ever being taken. He’s always had a promising long-range shot, and is finally starting to hit it consistently. He’s not really a creator or distributor, but he can make a pass here and there. He’s gotten better at attacking close outs and providing some different types of offensive attacks to keep defenders guessing, but he’ll likely never be a 20ppg scorer unless he just hits a ton of 3’s. He’s been jerked around from system to system and coach to coach his entire time in the league, but he’s always made his way with defense first.

That is good insight for us. I wonder how his ability to switch against quicker players, is he capable of switching?

I guess the Raptors still needs to evaluate how the existing core fits together before knowing which players are expandable. But I feel he is someone the Raptors will be interested in for filling the C spot.

He’s not a switch everything all the time kind of guy like an OG (few 7 footers are), but if he is switched into guys, he does pretty well. He doesn’t need to be rescued and he’s super smart defensively to keep himself in good position and find his release.

[Pacers Forever]

So correct me if wrong but I’m seeing Carlisle wanted the press and public to know that he and Pritchard talked to the top 4 Pacers players saying that their intent is to win with this team as composed. It also appears that the article from the athletic was viewed as rumor. So in short it sounds as if

A. The Pacers FO are not happy with this article and kind of attention.

B. The leak if there was any at all is a hidden effort / veiled consequence to get the players to band together and save the season for this group because selfish play hasn’t been working out.

C. Strictly a speculative rumor article due to the Pacers bad start to the season. Thus other media ran with the story causing more speculation by all of us thinking the Pacers were really wanting to move players.

D. Having to notify the players that it’s a business and the stands aren’t filled and their could be ramifications if they keep losing.

E. The Pacers really have put other GM’s on notice that they’re serious about trading quality players in order to construct a better fit here only if playoff bound teams in need of an extra piece are willing to help the Pacers rebuild or retool.

In conclusion the FO and players all understand it’s a business and the respective NBA FO’s are in contact and in tune behind the scenes. It’s supposed to be the public shouldn’t know till it happens or is announced.

What say you ? Rumor or truth ?