2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Revived]

Ayton is consistently, weirdly not given credit for a lot of his blocks.

It's been a constant throughout his career, and it's really hard to understand. We're not talking borderline blocks, either. Straight up blocks. Not counted. Happens at home and away.

Can't wrap my head around it.

Honestly I think contesting shots and forcing guys to get a low FG% is more important than chasing blocks anyway. I mean what is the most someone averages? 1 or 2 more a game?

Definitely spot on here. Hassan Whiteside is someone that gets a lot of blocks but he hasn’t actually been good defensively in forever.

Forcing misses at the rim (whether it’s through block or otherwise) is far more important. Other guys like Crowder and Bridges have to clean up the glass when Ayton does go to contest the shot at rim.

[lilfishi22]

Amazing episode! My two favourite NBA podcasts - the Timeline Podcast and the Mismatch, joining forces to talk everything Suns. Really goes to show just how good Mike and Sam are on the Timeline when they can jump onto the Mismatch, fit in and sound like absolute pros who know what they are talking about and not just from some surface level fandom but actually in detail.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7tnMpGE1MtRbQKSCj7KD55?si=WWJNv4w5RQeIo4edIPKgHw

In this episode, KOC is joined by Mike Vigil and Sam Cooper from 'The Timeline: A Phoenix Suns Podcast' to discuss the rise of the Suns franchise. They discuss how Chris Paul completely changed his style of play (03:06) and the improvement of Deandre Ayton (09:17). KOC is all aboard the Payne train, as they discuss the perfect bench pairing of Cameron Payne and JaVale McGee (13:46) before diving into Mikal Bridges‘s route to DPOY (15:35). They point to Devin Booker’s efficiency as a reason for his overall improvement (24:16). The guys look around the association to see which teams are a few moves away from contending. KOC makes a bold statement about Cavs rookie Evan Mobley, but Sam believes he could be on to something (32:25). Also, they discuss how James Harden could benefit from taking more midrange jumpers (45:40). Lastly, they debate what, if any, moves the Suns can make down the stretch (52:32).

[RaisingArizona]

Find someone who looks at you like this board does at Craig.

[Jdiddy701]

Find someone who looks at you like this board does at Craig.

I think it’s more that the 3rd string guys we have now are not that good - Nader, Wainright, Stix, Huch. Craig is solid insurance if one of our wings go down. He knows the system, fans and players love him, it makes too much sense. I thought he was pretty good for us in the playoffs too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ghost of Kleine]

Dime (@DimeUPROXX) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton is moving past not agreeing to an extension with the Suns: 'You still got to work' https://t.co/16LT1gERhw

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Ghost of Kleine]

The Bright Side (@BrightSideSun) Tweeted:
Potential Buyout and Trade Candidates for the Phoenix Suns

(via @ZonaHoops_) https://t.co/lLKncJI47I

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Ghost of Kleine]

Dave King (@DaveKingNBA) Tweeted:
Those four are now top-4 in the league, and Ayton is 6th in league. Only Mike Conley/Utah breaks up the Suns top-5 being league top-5.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Fo-Real]

Kevin Knox could use a fresh change of scenery and some Point god,, Monty Williams and J Crowder culture.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Mike Vigil (@protectedpick) Tweeted:
I keep thinking about this.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Ghost of Kleine]

Zona (@ZonaHoops_) Tweeted:
For those too lazy to click, these are my personal top five (realistic) additions:

Thad Young
Larry Nance Jr.
Justin Holiday
Torrey Craig
Kenrich Williams

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Which of these names do you guys think has the most realistic chance of being on a suns Jersey this season???

[Bogyo]

Zona (@ZonaHoops_) Tweeted:
For those too lazy to click, these are my personal top five (realistic) additions:

Thad Young
Larry Nance Jr.
Justin Holiday
Torrey Craig
Kenrich Williams

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Which of these names do you guys think has the most realistic chance of being on a suns Jersey this season???

I guess this dude has been reading my posts here lately. Or he is just another genius like yours truly

[Bogyo]

Amazing episode! My two favourite NBA podcasts - the Timeline Podcast and the Mismatch, joining forces to talk everything Suns. Really goes to show just how good Mike and Sam are on the Timeline when they can jump onto the Mismatch, fit in and sound like absolute pros who know what they are talking about and not just from some surface level fandom but actually in detail.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7tnMpGE1MtRbQKSCj7KD55?si=WWJNv4w5RQeIo4edIPKgHw

In this episode, KOC is joined by Mike Vigil and Sam Cooper from 'The Timeline: A Phoenix Suns Podcast' to discuss the rise of the Suns franchise. They discuss how Chris Paul completely changed his style of play (03:06) and the improvement of Deandre Ayton (09:17). KOC is all aboard the Payne train, as they discuss the perfect bench pairing of Cameron Payne and JaVale McGee (13:46) before diving into Mikal Bridges‘s route to DPOY (15:35). They point to Devin Booker’s efficiency as a reason for his overall improvement (24:16). The guys look around the association to see which teams are a few moves away from contending. KOC makes a bold statement about Cavs rookie Evan Mobley, but Sam believes he could be on to something (32:25). Also, they discuss how James Harden could benefit from taking more midrange jumpers (45:40). Lastly, they debate what, if any, moves the Suns can make down the stretch (52:32).

Wow, talk about Xmas coming early! Definatley my two favourite podcasts, I listen to them during rehab workouts every week.
(Throw in a bit of Simmons, Lowe, Ringer here and there, and I can get through those sucky core/spine/mobility stuff easy)

[Ghost of Kleine]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
"They're not even on the same planet with the #Suns and the #Warriors."

Charles Barkley as he said #Lakers won't be top 4 seed in the West.

Shaquille O'Neal says Lakers will be 4 or 5 to avoid Phoenix and Golden State.

"They don't want that 7th or 8th spot come playoff time." https://t.co/JeO5rOKr9D

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Gotta say it's nice to finally hear them talking about us like this!!!

Gotta believe this doesn't sit well with Le'diva and the Flakers bandwagoners!

[Bogyo]

There's no reason that we should be #29 in ORB% and #28 in Blocks per Game with Ayton and McGee playing center. Obviously there's some Frank time in there, but he's also averaged (slightly) more blocks per game than Ayton in less playing time so far this season.

I've heard/read that it's scheme related in that our focus is to get back on defense rather than offensive rebounding. But that's not reflected in the stats since we give up the 10th highest opponents fast break points. As for the blocks, McGee is the only one that's historically a good shot blocker, Ayton doesn't block a ton of shots but just plays solid defense.

It's definitely scheme driven, their guards and wings very rarely crash the boards.

I'm looking at NBA.com stats right now and if you break down the offensive rebounding numbers even more you'll see the suns are actually last in the league in offensive rebounding chances per game (likely due shooting well from both the floor and line). The suns actually rank pretty high in getting contested offensive rebounds. As far as chances Memphis leads the league with about 30 ORB chances a game and the Suns are last with a about 19.

On pure ORB per game the entire league is between 9-13 with basically everyone except 4 teams (Min, Tor, Memphis, and NO) being under 11 per game. It's not like those 4 teams are using their orb superiority to win more than others. In fact pretty much all the good teams are at the bottom in ORB (partly due to good teams making more of their shots). But overall it's just not a stat that really tells you much because everyone is bunched pretty closely.

In that Milwaukee series I thought it was defense rebounding that hurt the suns far more than their own ORB. A big part of that is Giannis, you need to send help when he drives which leaves their players free to hit the boards. Plus they shoot a lot of 3s and misses on 3s tend to be long rebounds that can come down to dumb luck on who it bounces to.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Week - I think the original stat that Fish copied here talks about percentage, not the pure counting stat. So while you are right that there is not a huge difference in that as everybody is bunched up between 9 and 11 offensive rebounds per game, the original stat means that out of the 30 teams if everybody has 100 offensive rebounding chances than 28 will do better than us ie: get more offensive rebounds out of a 100 chances than we would. That is not good at all.
While some of it can be explained with the things you write up here, it's not just that. We are not a very good rebounding team outside of our C's for whatever reason. That is why we are ranked similarly weakish in Defensive rebounding % too in the original quote. You pointed some of this out in your last paragraph, and rightly so. Definatley a point of concern, and place to improve, especially in the playoffs against the tougher/bigger teams. Especially if we plan on winning this dmn thing finally! So JJ should do his job, and get us that upgrade, and Monty should tweak his schemes a tiny bit so we should at least get a better % of our defensive rebounding chances. If we can improve a tiny bit on the offensive rebounding % too that is just gravy.

[spanishninja]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
"They're not even on the same planet with the #Suns and the #Warriors."

Charles Barkley as he said #Lakers won't be top 4 seed in the West.

Shaquille O'Neal says Lakers will be 4 or 5 to avoid Phoenix and Golden State.

"They don't want that 7th or 8th spot come playoff time." https://t.co/JeO5rOKr9D

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Gotta say it's nice to finally hear them talking about us like this!!!

Gotta believe this doesn't sit well with Le'diva and the Flakers bandwagoners!

if 1-2 hold, theoretically the preferred spot would be 6th right? 7th you run the chance of falling to 8th and facing the Warriors, and even if you stay at 7th you would face the Suns. 6th would mean you avoid both in the first round and face the "easier" Suns in the second if you make it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
"They're not even on the same planet with the #Suns and the #Warriors."

Charles Barkley as he said #Lakers won't be top 4 seed in the West.

Shaquille O'Neal says Lakers will be 4 or 5 to avoid Phoenix and Golden State.

"They don't want that 7th or 8th spot come playoff time." https://t.co/JeO5rOKr9D

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Gotta say it's nice to finally hear them talking about us like this!!!

Gotta believe this doesn't sit well with Le'diva and the Flakers bandwagoners!

if 1-2 hold, theoretically the preferred spot would be 6th right? 7th you run the chance of falling to 8th and facing the Warriors, and even if you stay at 7th you would face the Suns. 6th would mean you avoid both in the first round and face the "easier" Suns in the second if you make it.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Kevin Knox could use a fresh change of scenery and some Point god,, Monty Williams and J Crowder culture.

Definitely an interesting idea man!
Knox is actually from Phoenix. But is he really all that different than what we have with Nader currently though?? His defensive rating improved from 115 to 108. And he's established a role as a spot up shooter hitting around 38% from three. But can he do much else for us? I'd kind of like to trade for Brandon Clarke a bit more before his value improves again?

[bwgood77]

Find someone who looks at you like this board does at Craig.

I think it’s more that the 3rd string guys we have now are not that good - Nader, Wainright, Stix, Huch. Craig is solid insurance if one of our wings go down. He knows the system, fans and players love him, it makes too much sense. I thought he was pretty good for us in the playoffs too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was really more of a 2nd stringer...particularly once Saric/Nader were out, and then outplayed Nader, even though Nader shot the 3 ball well.

I like Craig but I don't see us trading for any salary next year. It's sign a buyout guy probably only unless we can get some great deal expiring guy for Stix...some team that wants a look at him and thinks that can convince him to sign there and he wouldn't sign elsewhere even though they can't offer as much. I doubt anyone offers more than his QO anyway. The thing is, any team could just sign him but if some team isn't sure and wants a test run and has the roster space, maybe. But the only teams that would play him are the worst teams who are not looking at 3-4 other players at PF/C.

Actually looking at teams and this summer's FAs, there are not really that many. Young is the main guy. You do have Covington but I don't see it or possibly Boucher I guess though he's not a Jones/Monty type...shoots under 40% for a big and not because he shoots 3s (18.5%)..they probably don't care he can almost get a block every 100 possessions with efficiency like that...would not be guarded on offense.

[bwgood77]

I've heard/read that it's scheme related in that our focus is to get back on defense rather than offensive rebounding. But that's not reflected in the stats since we give up the 10th highest opponents fast break points. As for the blocks, McGee is the only one that's historically a good shot blocker, Ayton doesn't block a ton of shots but just plays solid defense.

It's definitely scheme driven, their guards and wings very rarely crash the boards.

I'm looking at NBA.com stats right now and if you break down the offensive rebounding numbers even more you'll see the suns are actually last in the league in offensive rebounding chances per game (likely due shooting well from both the floor and line). The suns actually rank pretty high in getting contested offensive rebounds. As far as chances Memphis leads the league with about 30 ORB chances a game and the Suns are last with a about 19.

On pure ORB per game the entire league is between 9-13 with basically everyone except 4 teams (Min, Tor, Memphis, and NO) being under 11 per game. It's not like those 4 teams are using their orb superiority to win more than others. In fact pretty much all the good teams are at the bottom in ORB (partly due to good teams making more of their shots). But overall it's just not a stat that really tells you much because everyone is bunched pretty closely.

In that Milwaukee series I thought it was defense rebounding that hurt the suns far more than their own ORB. A big part of that is Giannis, you need to send help when he drives which leaves their players free to hit the boards. Plus they shoot a lot of 3s and misses on 3s tend to be long rebounds that can come down to dumb luck on who it bounces to.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Week - I think the original stat that Fish copied here talks about percentage, not the pure counting stat. So while you are right that there is not a huge difference in that as everybody is bunched up between 9 and 11 offensive rebounds per game, the original stat means that out of the 30 teams if everybody has 100 offensive rebounding chances than 28 will do better than us ie: get more offensive rebounds out of a 100 chances than we would. That is not good at all.
While some of it can be explained with the things you write up here, it's not just that. We are not a very good rebounding team outside of our C's for whatever reason. That is why we are ranked similarly weakish in Defensive rebounding % too in the original quote. You pointed some of this out in your last paragraph, and rightly so. Definatley a point of concern, and place to improve, especially in the playoffs against the tougher/bigger teams. Especially if we plan on winning this dmn thing finally! So JJ should do his job, and get us that upgrade, and Monty should tweak his schemes a tiny bit so we should at least get a better % of our defensive rebounding chances. If we can improve a tiny bit on the offensive rebounding % too that is just gravy.

While my explanation of us having the highest FG% meaning fewer offensive rebounding chances (counting stats) isn't relevant for ORB%, I do think taking more short/midrange shots is.

I think when you have your main scorer and 2nd/3rd main scorers score heavily from short/mid range and you shoot fewer 3s than most every team, those are easier defensive rebounds because they won't bounce out as far, and there will be more defenders inside....and Ayton may be up screening instead of in some sort of offensive rebounding position. I also think they likely tell Ayton/JaVale if they are not in offensive rebounding position on a shot like that to get back on transition D because we need improvement there.

[bwgood77]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
"They're not even on the same planet with the #Suns and the #Warriors."

Charles Barkley as he said #Lakers won't be top 4 seed in the West.

Shaquille O'Neal says Lakers will be 4 or 5 to avoid Phoenix and Golden State.

"They don't want that 7th or 8th spot come playoff time." https://t.co/JeO5rOKr9D

Read on Twitter

?s=20
Gotta say it's nice to finally hear them talking about us like this!!!

Gotta believe this doesn't sit well with Le'diva and the Flakers bandwagoners!

if 1-2 hold, theoretically the preferred spot would be 6th right? 7th you run the chance of falling to 8th and facing the Warriors, and even if you stay at 7th you would face the Suns. 6th would mean you avoid both in the first round and face the "easier" Suns in the second if you make it.

It will be interesting. I think the top 3 are probably set, even though I know it's way too early and with injuries things could change. After that is where it gets interesting.

I think there is a good chance Memphis is a top 5 or 6 seed. Then you have Dallas, LAC and Denver. Sometimes those teams look really good and sometimes bad. Same with the Lakers. Theoretically it should be those 8 in the playoffs with Portland as a longer shot.

Actually I forgot Minnesota. I think they have a good shot and the Kings have a long shot. So the 7-10 play in games might be interesting.

And how has Houston won 7 straight? They beat the Nets by 10 tonight. The Nets did rest KD but Kevin Porter Jr or Jalen Green didn't play for the Rockets either. They were 1-16 and now are 8-16. They are like the Suns...1 win and all losses then suddenly they go on a long winning streak.