Simmons Trade Thread - The Ocho

stormi · Post #1081 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 1:37 pm

The Simmons out for Ingram in has remained my fav return. His scoring potential, shooting, size and age are all major pluses. And he wouldn't command an exorbitant return because of narratives and historical franchise magnitude, like some others.

I also love FVV so so much. That guy is a baller. Defends hard, nice passer, super crafty off the dribble and has unlimited range. I've played around with trades to acquire him if the Raptors were to blow it up. His 19M salary is tricky to balance, I think Green's 10M's would have to go out in return - and then it'd be about evaluating what he's worth. The Raptors would likely want Maxey + salary filler.

Is that something we could stomach? Not sure I have the answer.

Kobblehead · Post #1082 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 1:49 pm

Let's stop chasing these old ass stars. Let's turn our focus into fostering the development of a new one.

Ben Simmons
Shake Milton

for

Cole Anthony
Terrence Ross
Gary Harris

Cole Anthony is like a young Dame. Ross fits way better than Milton. Harris is expiring.

stormi · Post #1083 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 1:51 pm

1) The Magic aren't trading Cole Anthony
2) Ew Terrance Ross
3) Ew Gary Harris

Kobblehead · Post #1084 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:00 pm

Yeah, but 10x ew Ben Simmons and 10x ew Shake Milton.

Weltman has been pretty defensive-minded with his draft selections. Anthony is their one outlier (and go figure, he's the one guy who actually panned out as an actual star).

Ben Simmons is much more in-line with Weltman's defensive sensibilities (Jonathan Isaac, Mo Bamba, Chuma Okeke, Jalen Suggs). I don't think he says no (especially if Ben gives the go-ahead to playing in Orlando).

stormi · Post #1085 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:08 pm

Why would the Magic point to the trajectories of Anthony, who's been frying the league up, and then their defensive oriented picks and still plant their flag on the hill of Okeke/Isaac/Bamba (who's actually been okay this year ) when they've been utter disappointments...

I thought you were going to take it the, Greg Anthony is a helicopter parent and wants his son out Orlando route.

Read on Twitter

Maybe in a few years if Suggs blows up and he and Anthony clash over who's the alpha on the team, who gets to control the ball at the end of games - they might be forced into this ultimatum. It just seems way too fantasy-ish at this point in time.

stormi · Post #1086 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:14 pm

I can't think of any other name outside of Fox/Ingram/Lillard that seem somewhat realistic in terms of being in scenarios of leaving their current organizations - and also approaching the value quota Morey is hellbent on receiving.

Guys like CJ and Brogdon aren't there. Beal is going to Boston. I've even read somewhere that Morey is waiting on using Ben's salary in a Harden S&T next summer.

This saga is more entertaining than any drama you could find on TV.

Kobblehead · Post #1087 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:20 pm

As long as Morey doesn't get greedy and ask for picks attached, I think Orlando would make the move. Cooked Daryl would probably ask for picks and swaps, though.

the_process · Post #1088 » by **the_process** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 2:27 pm

stormi wrote:I can't think of any other name outside of Fox/Ingram/Lillard that seem somewhat realistic in terms of being in scenarios of leaving their current organizations - and also approaching the value quota Morey is hellbent on receiving.

Guys like CJ and Brogdon aren't there. Beal is going to Boston. I've even read somewhere that Morey is waiting on using Ben's salary in a Harden S&T next summer.

This saga is more entertaining than any drama you could find on TV.

The Simmons Show jumped the shark when the season started.

Eyeamok · Post #1089 » by **Eyeamok** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 3:17 pm

the_process wrote:
stormi wrote:I can't think of any other name outside of Fox/Ingram/Lillard that seem somewhat realistic in terms of being in scenarios of leaving their current organizations - and also approaching the value quota Morey is hellbent on receiving.

Guys like CJ and Brogdon aren't there. Beal is going to Boston. I've even read somewhere that Morey is waiting on using Ben's salary in a Harden S&T next summer.

This saga is more entertaining than any drama you could find on TV.

The Simmons Show jumped the shark when the season started.

And yet it is still a highly viewed and rated show.....What gives ! :lol:

ProcessDoctor · Post #1090 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 3:25 pm

If Portland decides to trade Dame, I'll be curious to see if they go for a full-on rebuild or re-tool. I know their fans have voiced their preference.

On one hand, no free agent will opt to go to Portland, so they will likely never attract a player of Ben's caliber that way. On the other hand, they might be able to bottom out and hit on the lotto, but the odds that they get a prospect as good as Simmons aren't great either.

I know Simmons can be turned into 2-3 FRPs and swaps, but I just don't know if they're the type of franchise that can take that risk. They might be irrelevant for a decade if they tank.

SixthStreet · Post #1091 » by **SixthStreet** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 3:53 pm

Lillard isn't going to push this team over the hump. I'd only be willing to trade roster players for him. Absolutely no future draft capital. If Morey holds the same stance, and he should given Lillard's archetype, age, and current production, that means a deal is DOA considering what Portland would want for him.

My gut is saying they waited a year too long to deal him and their return is going to reflect that. I don't see them getting anywhere near what the Portland fans have said in this thread from us or anyone else.

Slacktard · Post #1092 » by **Slacktard** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 5:33 pm

Portland shoulda traded him this off-season. Despite signs of possible 'smoke', Dame's public statements and strong denials helped to keep his value at the same level where in most situations you would have started to see 'star player value drop' because of teams smelling blood in the water.

We've hit 'blood in the water' stage and Dame looking more human with not recovering as quickly due to age and if affecting his game (plus how ref's are calling fouls now) doesn't help things at all. Look. If Portland trades him they're not going to get a Sixers "Charles Barkley" return, unless the new GM is completely inept... but the max value they could have gotten in the off-season is no longer what the value is now.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1093 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 5:37 pm

That's why we ought to rely on a third team (Sacramento, San Antonio, Minnesota, Toronto, Detroit, Houston, Oklahoma City) for picks to send Portland's way. One of those teams would cough up 3 FRPs and swaps for Ben, and probably wouldn't have interest in acquiring Dame for themselves.

Dnt hate · Post #1094 » by **Dnt hate** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 5:56 pm

Wilfried wrote:Really not sold on Lillard anymore (age, production this season, money attached to contract, injury)

I wouldn't go further than Simmons + Milton for him straight up

I've always been intrigued by Fred Van Vleet.
A Van Vleet + Dragic + future pick for Simmons trade would work.

Try to get Ingram next summer by using Harris + Korkmaz + Maxey + picks

Fred Van Vleet
Curry
Thybulle
Ingram
Embiid

+ a lot more cap flexibity to go after FA - pick ups

Enough playmaking
Enough shooting
Enough scoring
Enough D

Length in the backcourt could be a problem, but can be solved by adding a decent PF (or Paul Reed should improve a lot) and moving Seth to the bench role, which would be awesome anyway

This team is definitely not winning a championship bro, and I wouldn't give up Maxey for that

Mik317 · Post #1095 » by **Mik317** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 6:24 pm

FVF and Curry is an even worse defensive backcourt than we have now lol

stormi · Post #1096 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 6:31 pm

Mik317 wrote:FVF and Curry is an even worse defensive backcourt than we have now lol

What? FVV is easily a better defender than Maxey, Green or Seth.

Mik317 · Post #1097 » by **Mik317** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 7:08 pm

he is also tiny.

He fights hard and is strong for his size but bottom line him and Seth in the backcourt is going to get targeted and you can't hide two guys at a time.

stormi · Post #1098 » by **stormi** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 7:18 pm

You wouldn't have to hide FVV. FVV is a good defender, even at that height just like Chris Paul and Kyle Lowry are. He gets in a tonne of passing lanes, racks up steals and blocks and is super strong and can't be bullied by other guards.

TBH if our starting five was:

FVV
Curry
Green
Harris
Embiid

Fred would be the second best defender out there and the only other + defender not named Joel Embiid.

This roster is so disgustingly polarized on one side of the spectrum or the other in terms of skillsets. Guys like Seth and Matisse aren't trustworthy championship starters being a complete negative on an entire half of the court. We saw Seth get picked on routinely by Trae/Huerter in the Hawks series. Harris is a PF that can't guard a single good forward. Green is walking fossil.

But yeah FVV doesn't have that issue, he's a good and battle tested playoff defender regardless of his 6'0 stature.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1099 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 7:29 pm

Curry in our starting lineup without Ben completely ruins our defense. He either has to go or be replaced in the starting lineup by a superior defender.

As of today, we are 5th in ORTG and 17th in DRTG.

Simmons/Maxey/Curry/2023 FRP & 2024/2026 FRP swaps for Lillard/Covington

Lillard/Milton/Springer
Green/Korkmaz/Joe
Covington/Thybulle
Harris/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Drummond/Bassey

Top 10 ORTG and DRTG guaranteed.

davesilver · Post #1100 » by **davesilver** » Thu Dec 9, 2021 7:40 pm

stormi wrote:I can't think of any other name outside of Fox/Ingram/Lillard that seem somewhat realistic in terms of being in scenarios of leaving their current organizations - and also approaching the value quota Morey is hellbent on receiving.

Guys like CJ and Brogdon aren't there. Beal is going to Boston. I've even read somewhere that Morey is waiting on using Ben's salary in a Harden S&T next summer.

This saga is more entertaining than any drama you could find on TV.

The Harden S&T just makes sense. Kyrie Ben & KD is great for BK too. Embiid + Harden is the duo that was promised