Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

[toooskies]

Okay, let us explore Trent to Cleveland and create an acceptable package for Indiana.

* Trent is on a new contract and can't be traded until mid January.

* He is making $16 million, so Cleveland needs to send out at least $11 million in salary using the + $5 million formula.

* Cleveland is $3,262,896 from the Luxury Tax Line, so they should be working to be close on the salary numbers rather than loose (+ $5 million) and miss the payout from the Luxury Tax Pool. Cleveland Team Salary

* Since the Pacers should have minimal interest in a SG type because they have Duarte, I don't have them coveting Sexton and thus find a fourth team for Sexton if he is part of the outgoing package from Cleveland.

Fill in the missing parts on the three team trade. If a fourth team is needed for Sexton, then pull them into the trade.

Cleveland
In: Trent
Out:

Toronto
In: Sabonis
Out:

Indiana
In:
Out: Sabonis

Cleveland
In: Trent, LeVert, Watanabe
Out: Love, Windler, 2022 FRP, 2022 HOU SRP

Toronto
In: Sabonis
Out: Trent, Watanabe, FRP

Indiana
In: Love, Windler, picks
Out: Sabonis, LeVert

Cleveland gets all the wings they wish they had, Toronto goes from Trent to an all-star, Indiana downgrades talent this year for picks.

Some version of this probably works with Warren instead of LeVert, too.

Covington was traded for 2 FRPs..
You have Sabonis being traded for 2 FRPs and Indy take on Love? This feels like 2 FRPs short for Indy

I'd say it's two mid-firsts whereas RoCo was a mid-first and a late-first, but yeah, Toronto probably owes more and Cleveland might throw in the SAS 2nd as well. That said, Love's not a contract you want to have but he's not a zero-value player either.

[Texas Chuck]

, Love's not a contract you want to have but he's not a zero-value player either.

How overpaid would you say he is? I have trouble believing he could get a 2 year full MLE deal putting that figure at about $40M under the most optimistic of valuations which is still really significantly negative. And because the actual contract is close to 2/$60M(prorated actual money on year 1 obviously) you need a team who is already committed to not trying to win next year as well to take him which really limits the target teams.

[toooskies]

, Love's not a contract you want to have but he's not a zero-value player either.

How overpaid would you say he is? I have trouble believing he could get a 2 year full MLE deal putting that figure at about $40M under the most optimistic of valuations which is still really significantly negative. And because the actual contract is close to 2/$60M(prorated actual money on year 1 obviously) you need a team who is already committed to not trying to win next year as well to take him which really limits the target teams.

To the degree he could rehab his value to this point in this role, he has rehabbed it.

He's a high-end backup big right now, whatever that's worth. He scores 20 points per 36, stretches the floor, can get his own shot inside or outside, rebounds at a high level, nearly has a 2/1 AST/TO ratio, has great WS/48, BPM, ORTG/DRTG, positive on/off, +2.3 RAPTOR, and so on.

He's an injury risk which eats into his value, so a restricted minutes plan (and thus a bench role) makes sense for him. He's also a risk to not produce if he isn't in a positive situation. And obviously he's old for a basketball player and will be a year older next year.

The PFs in his general vicinity of RAPTOR are Markkanen, Miles Bridges, Barnes, Aaron Gordon. But also guys like Georges Niang and DJJ. Full MLE is probably fair given the injury risk but if he stays healthy he's outperforming that.

[The-Power]

As we know trade proposals with Wiseman leaving GSW are going to continue, especially with the trouble in Indiana, I just wanted to point to an article and some tweets by a local GSW reporter who's known to be very close to Lacob and the FO.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

https://theathletic.com/3006586/2021/12/09/kawakami-why-the-warriors-absolutely-positively-are-not-trading-james-wiseman/?source=twittered

One underrated reason: financial commitments going forward.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning and choice, but it would be a shock if GSW trades Wiseman anytime soon given what we know about Joe Lacob's thinking and all the local reporting that is pretty clear on the Warriors' line of thinking, plus taking into account to staff moves done over the summer (especially hiring Dejan Milojevic just to work with Wiseman non-stop).

[Mamba4Goat]

As we know trade proposals with Wiseman leaving GSW are going to continue, especially with the trouble in Indiana, I just wanted to point to an article and some tweets by a local GSW reporter who's known to be very close to Lacob and the FO.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

https://theathletic.com/3006586/2021/12/09/kawakami-why-the-warriors-absolutely-positively-are-not-trading-james-wiseman/?source=twittered

One underrated reason: financial commitments going forward.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning and choice, but it would be a shock if GSW trades Wiseman anytime soon given what we know about Joe Lacob's thinking and all the local reporting that is pretty clear on the Warriors' line of thinking, plus taking into account to staff moves done over the summer (especially hiring Dejan Milojevic just to work with Wiseman non-stop).

To add to this, Anthony Slater (the GSW beat for The Athletic) was on the Game Theory podcast the other week and from everything he’s said Lacob loves Wiseman and still views him as someone worthy of a top 2 pick. Unless it’s in a Dame type trade or a total smoke screen to up his value I’d be shocked to see Golden State deal Wiseman.

[HartfordWhalers]

I'm shocked we are giving this crap credibility after all the we didn't sign DLo to trade him bull.

But hey.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Being close to Lacob is exactly why this feels like a hilariously obvious plant. I have Wiseman being traded more likely now, not less.

[giberish]

I figure the point of this is that many players, especially young ones, don't react well to being involved in trade rumors. Most likely, even if the Warriors are willing to trade him Wiseman won't be traded. There just aren't that many possible trade targets that make sense and are logistically possible (IMO Myles Turner is one of them). Even if one comes on the market there's far from a guarantee that a deal goes down.

So the Warriors FO don't want to cause Wiseman troubles for a deal that probably won't happen.

If a deal does happen? Then just explain that circumstances changed since you made the statements. Wiseman being pissed/disappointed in you isn't really a concern either at that point.

[Mamba4Goat]

I figure the point of this is that many players, especially young ones, don't react well to being involved in trade rumors. Most likely, even if the Warriors are willing to trade him Wiseman won't be traded. There just aren't that many possible trade targets that make sense and are logistically possible (IMO Myles Turner is one of them). Even if one comes on the market there's far from a guarantee that a deal goes down.

So the Warriors FO don't want to cause Wiseman troubles for a deal that probably won't happen.

If a deal does happen? Then just explain that circumstances changed since you made the statements. Wiseman being pissed/disappointed in you isn't really a concern either at that point.

It would be pretty cool if the human element of this stuff was taken into consideration more often, especially when it’s involving youngsters.

[MoneyTalks41890]

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?s=20

[The-Power]

I'm shocked we are giving this crap credibility after all the we didn't sign DLo to trade him bull.

But hey.

That's not even remotely comparable, though. There's a year of reporting about Wiseman and how much Joe Lacob loves him. Every single reporter close to the Warriors has reported that Lacob is fully convinced that the team can pull off competing now and ushering the next era, and that he hates the idea of dropping off a cliff after the core trio retires and therefore wants to keep the young guys. He also likes the fact that the Rookies are cost-controlled for a while, you'd think. And they have completely revamped the coaching staff during the off-season to focus on the development of the young players.

Nothing of the sort can be said about DLo despite the statements that he's not there to be traded. Could this all be part of an elaborate year-long plan to increase Wiseman's value? Sure, if you want to believe that. Is it likely? Hardly so. Note that I'm also not saying this can't change if Wiseman still shows that he hasn't learned to be better in the system (like DLo) despite the statements that they would give him more time; I'm talking about right now, as he's still working his way back from injury.

Anyway, I'm just posting relevant information here (at least I thought such reporting was relevant – on a Trade Board, in a thread literally called ‘rumors’). Feel free to just to say ‘bull’ and go on as if Wiseman is on the trading block based on... a desire or unfounded (i.e. never reported) conviction. To each their own. Maybe only reports that you'd like to be true or are in line with what you guess a franchise wants to do are relevant on here.

[The-Power]

Being close to Lacob is exactly why this feels like a hilariously obvious plant. I have Wiseman being traded more likely now, not less.

Sorry, but Lacob has been making comments like this about Wiseman for over a year now and there's been reporting about the Warriors (or Lacob) being fully committed to building for the present and the future (and Lacob absolutely loving Wiseman) for months on end now. Was that all elaborately planted, too?

Not to mention that the common opinion on here was that there was no chance in hell the Warriors would pick twice in the lottery last year and have both players on the roster to start the season. That turned out to be just flat-out wrong.

[Texas Chuck]

Anyway, I'm just posting relevant information here (at least I thought such reporting was relevant – on a Trade Board, in a thread literally called ‘rumors’). Feel free to just to say ‘bull’ and go on as if Wiseman is on the trading block based on... a desire or unfounded (i.e. never reported) conviction. To each their own. Maybe only reports that you'd like to be true or are in line with what you guess a franchise wants to do are relevant on here.

Nobody minds you posting it.

I'll be honest though when I saw the source my first thought was the same as money's--this is an attempt to bolster a distressed asset. But giberish makes a great point, that the most likely scenario for every player is they won't be traded and this guy has had it especially rough with being hurt, playing poorly when he did play, and lots of trade speculation. So smart to reassure him and let him focus on rehab and basketball.

But its naive for any of to take any reporting at face value. Particularly when its from a source we know is willing to tote mail for a franchise. You are allowed to take it at face value and Whalers is allowed to scoff at that. But a reminder to all because this gets lost a lot here for some reason--just because a moderator expresses a personal opinion in no way is them attempting to control the narrative.

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh so the year of we love Wiseman is not comparable to the year of we love DLo because one lasted a year?

Or the DLo is a core piece and not to be traded meant core-lite. Core-ish. Kinda sorta but not really !!

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh and yeah, and I definitely agree that only reports that people like are relevant on here.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh and yeah, and I definitely agree that only reports that people like are relevant on here.

I didn't post the "report" that Luka wanted to play with Ben Simmons. But I liked it.

[Texas Chuck]

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Speaking of reports I'm skeptical on.....

But were this to be true, let me call my shot that its a 3 team deal where Simmons ends up in Minnesota and Philly settles for Ingram while the Pels take more picks as their primary incentive.

[babyjax13]

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Speaking of reports I'm skeptical on.....

But were this to be true, let me call my shot that its a 3 team deal where Simmons ends up in Minnesota and Philly settles for Ingram while the Pels take more picks as their primary incentive.

The Pels nosediving makes this more plausible, but if I am any team, I take Ingram over Simmons.

[HartfordWhalers]

The Pels nosediving makes this more plausible, but if I am any team, I take Ingram over Simmons.

Now, I need to give like 50 caveats about being actually checked in and full team committed etc.

And then 50 more.

But after that, if Minnesota I take Simmons easily over Ingram. He has been better. He fits a ton better. And those two things matter.

[HartfordWhalers]

Oh, and put me skeptical that a NOP GM who has traded picks to get better can reverse course like that; even if he should.

It would be a really wonderful management/ownership relationship if he could do that sort of reverse course versus having it throw himself under the bus and out of a job; but those feel like the exception.