Greg Anthony on Cole Anthony and Jalen Suggs

[Knightro]

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[tiderulz]

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honest question as i dont understand the depth of stats. Why is his PER so low (or average)

[Xatticus]

Out of curiosity, can you or anyone think of a player like you project for Cole? One that carried himself like a star, viewed himself like a star, put up decent numbers on a bad team and then had issues down the line with being “leashed”?

Dennis Smith Jr. He had a full-on meltdown when they took the ball out of his hands. They actually had fairly similar numbers in their rookie seasons and aren't all that dissimilar as players.

It's a gross mischaracterization to describe what you want from him as "leashing" him. You just want him to move the ball. It's literally not about the number of field goal attempts he is taking. It's about the decisions he makes. He has a very selfish game. He hunts for stats while he is on the floor. You don't calculate whether or not you will get an assist before you pass to an open teammate. You make the pass and you trust that the teammate will then make the right decision. When you don't have the ball, you keep working to free up yourself or your teammates. This is how good basketball works and we saw it on full display last night. The ball doesn't stick in Curry's hands. It doesn't stick in Draymond's hands. It doesn't stick in Klay's hands. That's what makes GS so good.

Anthony just doesn't like to give up the ball. I get it. You can't get a bucket or an assist if you don't have the ball in your hands. It often sticks in his hands for a beat or two too long even when he does make the right decision. Sometimes it's really glaring. If you you are coming around a screen and both defenders follow you, you know with absolute certainty that the screener is open up top. It's an easy read. You shouldn't end up dribbling around the baseline, under the basket, and coming out the other side hoping that you can find something better along the way. Trust the offense. Trust your teammates.

I get why Anthony is the way he is. This has been reinforced in him all along the way as he worked his way to the NBA. "The first player to average a triple-double in Oak Hill history!" I get why his dad is saying what he is saying. What they want is not what I want. I'm a fan of the Orlando Magic. I don't have an interest in Anthony's accolades or the size of his next contract.

People look at the best teams. Then they look at the players with the most robust stat lines on those teams. Then they use the associative property and reach the wrong conclusions. The best teams aren't the best teams because their best players have those robust stat lines. Bad teams have players with robust stat lines too. The history of the NBA is littered with little generals that piled up stats on bad teams. Michael Ray Richardson, World B Free, Kemba Walker, and everyone in between.

I think the DSJ comp is fair, but it also makes the 'risk' of Cole feel minimised because Dallas serve as an example of moving on from that player when the time is right (and you have clearly better leaders and options - we might already have that in Franz or Suggs). In the meantime, I read everything you wrote there as just parts of his game we will hope to correct in time, and if we can't, we can either try to maximise his game off the bench or we move on from him like Dallas did. So altogether it's not that worrying. Our own head coach was right there in the middle of managing it all, too, I'm sure - bonus!

Collin Sexton is probably a better example, in my books. Put up big numbers on a bad team and was flirting with talks about a big contract extension. Now he's out for a season and the team is much better without him. What do you do with that player? What do you do with that type of player if you don't get a window without them to see what the team could otherwise look like? Like if a player like Vuc comes along who stays healthy enough long enough to burrow their way into the focus of the offense? I feel like that might be your concern with Anthony, too. Him putting up numbers on a tanking team and playing with bad habits isn't that gross of an offense, but if he overstays his welcome and continues doing that at the expense of other players taking better shots/making smarter decisions then, yeah, we'll have a problem.

I really think it's too early to worry right now, though. Team dynamics will likely shift a lot over the coming years as players come into their own. In Cole's defense, he is improving over time, too. One thing I'd love Mosley to kick out of him is his rebounding. Cole gives up on defense to go and grab rebounds and leaves the perimeter wide open all the time. He needs to focus his energy on sticking with his man instead of going for stats. Find a stat for good defense on the perimeter and he could probably find a way to apply himself to that, haha.

Yes. That's my concern and that was my frustration with the Vuc-centric era. Our front office hasn't really demonstrated a cutthroat nature about them. They have been very player friendly thus far. Even when they broke up the core at the deadline last year, they did so with the approval (or at the request) of those players. They handed out very friendly contracts to Isaac and Fultz that weren't really warranted given their situations. I'm not sure Weltman has it in him to play hardball.

Stylistically, Cole and DSJ are/were very similar. Both players like to have the ball in their hands and like to create for themselves. They have similar builds and athleticism. Both are highly skilled. They are limited in the same ways. Neither one has much of an idea how to play without the ball in their hands and they both just kind of stand around until they get an opportunity to flash back to the guy with the ball to try their luck again. Both should also be much better than they are at the defensive end.

The thing with DSJ though, is that he was his own worst enemy after Dallas acquired Doncic and took the ball away from him. Dallas wanted to recoup some of the value they invested in him, but he feigned injury and left the team. No team wants to deal with that. There are only 30 franchises. There are only so many opportunities for young players to carve out their place. If you aren't drafted near the top of the draft, it's all the more difficult.

I'm not arguing that Cole Anthony would've behaved that way in that situation. I couldn't possibly know that. I was responding to a specific question and an obvious answer was DSJ. There is an alternate universe where DSJ is what Cole is right now. He just didn't luck into the best situation. Dallas' luck was DSJ's misfortune.

Obviously, we want Anthony to improve his shortcomings, but there aren't many guys that change their nature. Brook Lopez? Buck Williams? Ron Harper? Sam Perkins? I think those guys all did it out of necessity to prolong their careers. When you say that someone needs the ball in their hands to be effective, you are implying one of two things: said player really can't shoot -or- said player has no idea how to play organized basketball.

I liked what we did at the outset last night. The first couple possessions were run to get Wagner involved in the offense from the get-go, so I'm sure that Mosley is on top of this. I still don't understand why Hampton is running the second unit, especially when Wagner is on the floor with him. Hampton isn't a PG and he never will be.

[Def Swami]

Cole Anthony in Zach Lowe's "10 Things" Column

3. The gusto -- and rebounding -- of Cole Anthony
I'm skeptical of Anthony developing into the lead ball handler for a contender; he's on the small side for that role, without killer physical ability, and he orchestrates with a shoot-first approach. (On this Orlando Magic team, he probably should bring a shoot-first, shoot-second, and shoot-third approach.) He's averaging 20 points, but someone on every bad team will approach that number. Anthony's a solid shooter, but not a great one. He gets hung up on screens on defense.

But Anthony is good, and more than that, he's a delight -- overflowing with ultra-competitive, puffed-chest bravado. He carries himself as if he is the best player on the floor. He backs it up with effort, toughness, and late-game shotmaking. That kind of fire-breathing courage inspires teammates. It makes a rebuilding team believe -- really believe -- it can compete.

Anthony's spirit is embodied by his ferocious rebounding. He loves barging into big man territory, and uprooting larger humans with textbook boxouts. He can flat out go up and get it:

Anthony has rebounded 17.7% of opponent misses. Some power forwards would love to reach that number. It trails one Ricky Rubio season for the highest rate ever among players listed 6-2 or shorter, per Basketball-Reference.

Anthony is crafty, with lots of moves and countermoves -- he rejects picks more than any ball handler, per Second Spectrum -- and a penchant for start-and-stop baseline drives.

The Magic have scored 109 points per 100 possessions with Anthony, and an unthinkable 92.7 when he sits -- eight points below the Oklahoma City Thunder's league-worst offense. Sprinkle some salt on those numbers; with Markelle Fultz and now Jalen Suggs injured, the Magic don't have a backup point guard. Terrence Ross, Orlando's bench spark for what seems like 20 seasons now, is shooting 30% on 3s.

Regardless: It's impossible not to love Anthony.

Zach needs to take a trip to our forum.

This encapsulates how I feel about Anthony. I'm dubious about him being a lead guard on a contender. I always have been despite liking the pick in 2020. But, through this small sample size of a season, he has been good for us. And he's kinda fun. And that's good! That's good value out of the 15th pick in a weak draft. If Anthony hits his ceiling, what is it? Kemba Walker? CJ McCollum? Celtics Isaiah Thomas? Those are imperfect players, but good ones that had/have value around the league.

For a bad team that has no plans of contending anytime soon, a franchise that has been notoriously boring since the last guy left, a team that hasn't had any sort of positive guard play since a lone Jameer Nelson season in '09, he's a breath of fresh air.

Is he the starting point guard for this team in 2 years? I don't know. Does he get better as a defender and playmaker? I hope so. Those things will play out in time. But for today, he's the best guard on the team. He's been good value at the 15th pick. We're gonna be bad in the short term. You hope everyone gets better. Anthony, the roster, the coach, the front office. You could spend time worrying about the future of the contending roster, but in my eyes that's so far in the future with so many different variables that have to shake out perfectly that Anthony is probably the lowest on the totem pole of concerns I would have.

In the meantime, I'm just going to kick back and enjoy the ride.

[LDNMagic90]

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I just listened to the whole thing and GA says a lot of nice things about our young guys, obviously he bigs up Cole but he talks about Cole’s mindset.

He mentions the magic need to do a good PR run to promote Franz for rookie of the year.

It was worth the watch

[basketballRob]

Sounds like Greg is invested in the Magic. He says he watches every one of Cole's plays.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[LDNMagic90]

Sounds like Greg is invested in the Magic. He says he watches every one of Cole's plays.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

It works in our favour as he’s in the media as well as a former player. Hopefully we can get more media recognition for the team and some of these guys. It’s long overdue.

[basketballRob]

Sounds like Greg is invested in the Magic. He says he watches every one of Cole's plays.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

It works in our favour as he’s in the media as well as a former player. Hopefully we can get more media recognition for the team and some of these guys. It’s long overdue.

We've already seen him criticize the Magic, so his media leverage could work against us. As long as Cole is starting and getting high usage he'll probably be happy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[LDNMagic90]

Sounds like Greg is invested in the Magic. He says he watches every one of Cole's plays.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

It works in our favour as he’s in the media as well as a former player. Hopefully we can get more media recognition for the team and some of these guys. It’s long overdue.

We've already seen him criticize the Magic, so his media leverage could work against us. As long as Cole is starting and getting high usage he'll probably be happy.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

I don't think he was criticizing the Magic with his tweets though? That was a shot at people writing off is son so early. Obviously he only has love for the Magic whilst Cole is here, but after hearing him speak I definitely don't think he meant to criticize the franchice.

[basketballRob]

Cole live if you want to ask him anything.

Watch on YouTube

[Bensational]

Dennis Smith Jr. He had a full-on meltdown when they took the ball out of his hands. They actually had fairly similar numbers in their rookie seasons and aren't all that dissimilar as players.

It's a gross mischaracterization to describe what you want from him as "leashing" him. You just want him to move the ball. It's literally not about the number of field goal attempts he is taking. It's about the decisions he makes. He has a very selfish game. He hunts for stats while he is on the floor. You don't calculate whether or not you will get an assist before you pass to an open teammate. You make the pass and you trust that the teammate will then make the right decision. When you don't have the ball, you keep working to free up yourself or your teammates. This is how good basketball works and we saw it on full display last night. The ball doesn't stick in Curry's hands. It doesn't stick in Draymond's hands. It doesn't stick in Klay's hands. That's what makes GS so good.

Anthony just doesn't like to give up the ball. I get it. You can't get a bucket or an assist if you don't have the ball in your hands. It often sticks in his hands for a beat or two too long even when he does make the right decision. Sometimes it's really glaring. If you you are coming around a screen and both defenders follow you, you know with absolute certainty that the screener is open up top. It's an easy read. You shouldn't end up dribbling around the baseline, under the basket, and coming out the other side hoping that you can find something better along the way. Trust the offense. Trust your teammates.

I get why Anthony is the way he is. This has been reinforced in him all along the way as he worked his way to the NBA. "The first player to average a triple-double in Oak Hill history!" I get why his dad is saying what he is saying. What they want is not what I want. I'm a fan of the Orlando Magic. I don't have an interest in Anthony's accolades or the size of his next contract.

People look at the best teams. Then they look at the players with the most robust stat lines on those teams. Then they use the associative property and reach the wrong conclusions. The best teams aren't the best teams because their best players have those robust stat lines. Bad teams have players with robust stat lines too. The history of the NBA is littered with little generals that piled up stats on bad teams. Michael Ray Richardson, World B Free, Kemba Walker, and everyone in between.

I think the DSJ comp is fair, but it also makes the 'risk' of Cole feel minimised because Dallas serve as an example of moving on from that player when the time is right (and you have clearly better leaders and options - we might already have that in Franz or Suggs). In the meantime, I read everything you wrote there as just parts of his game we will hope to correct in time, and if we can't, we can either try to maximise his game off the bench or we move on from him like Dallas did. So altogether it's not that worrying. Our own head coach was right there in the middle of managing it all, too, I'm sure - bonus!

Collin Sexton is probably a better example, in my books. Put up big numbers on a bad team and was flirting with talks about a big contract extension. Now he's out for a season and the team is much better without him. What do you do with that player? What do you do with that type of player if you don't get a window without them to see what the team could otherwise look like? Like if a player like Vuc comes along who stays healthy enough long enough to burrow their way into the focus of the offense? I feel like that might be your concern with Anthony, too. Him putting up numbers on a tanking team and playing with bad habits isn't that gross of an offense, but if he overstays his welcome and continues doing that at the expense of other players taking better shots/making smarter decisions then, yeah, we'll have a problem.

I really think it's too early to worry right now, though. Team dynamics will likely shift a lot over the coming years as players come into their own. In Cole's defense, he is improving over time, too. One thing I'd love Mosley to kick out of him is his rebounding. Cole gives up on defense to go and grab rebounds and leaves the perimeter wide open all the time. He needs to focus his energy on sticking with his man instead of going for stats. Find a stat for good defense on the perimeter and he could probably find a way to apply himself to that, haha.

Yes. That's my concern and that was my frustration with the Vuc-centric era. Our front office hasn't really demonstrated a cutthroat nature about them. They have been very player friendly thus far. Even when they broke up the core at the deadline last year, they did so with the approval (or at the request) of those players. They handed out very friendly contracts to Isaac and Fultz that weren't really warranted given their situations. I'm not sure Weltman has it in him to play hardball.

Stylistically, Cole and DSJ are/were very similar. Both players like to have the ball in their hands and like to create for themselves. They have similar builds and athleticism. Both are highly skilled. They are limited in the same ways. Neither one has much of an idea how to play without the ball in their hands and they both just kind of stand around until they get an opportunity to flash back to the guy with the ball to try their luck again. Both should also be much better than they are at the defensive end.

The thing with DSJ though, is that he was his own worst enemy after Dallas acquired Doncic and took the ball away from him. Dallas wanted to recoup some of the value they invested in him, but he feigned injury and left the team. No team wants to deal with that. There are only 30 franchises. There are only so many opportunities for young players to carve out their place. If you aren't drafted near the top of the draft, it's all the more difficult.

I'm not arguing that Cole Anthony would've behaved that way in that situation. I couldn't possibly know that. I was responding to a specific question and an obvious answer was DSJ. There is an alternate universe where DSJ is what Cole is right now. He just didn't luck into the best situation. Dallas' luck was DSJ's misfortune.

Obviously, we want Anthony to improve his shortcomings, but there aren't many guys that change their nature. Brook Lopez? Buck Williams? Ron Harper? Sam Perkins? I think those guys all did it out of necessity to prolong their careers. When you say that someone needs the ball in their hands to be effective, you are implying one of two things: said player really can't shoot -or- said player has no idea how to play organized basketball.

I liked what we did at the outset last night. The first couple possessions were run to get Wagner involved in the offense from the get-go, so I'm sure that Mosley is on top of this. I still don't understand why Hampton is running the second unit, especially when Wagner is on the floor with him. Hampton isn't a PG and he never will be.

Interesting to read the story in the news ticker on RealGM today about that exact dynamic.

I wonder what Mosley was able to take from all of that and how he can apply it to this team? I’d assume first thing would be to not alienate Anthony and put him in the doghouse.

[Xatticus]

I think the DSJ comp is fair, but it also makes the 'risk' of Cole feel minimised because Dallas serve as an example of moving on from that player when the time is right (and you have clearly better leaders and options - we might already have that in Franz or Suggs). In the meantime, I read everything you wrote there as just parts of his game we will hope to correct in time, and if we can't, we can either try to maximise his game off the bench or we move on from him like Dallas did. So altogether it's not that worrying. Our own head coach was right there in the middle of managing it all, too, I'm sure - bonus!

Collin Sexton is probably a better example, in my books. Put up big numbers on a bad team and was flirting with talks about a big contract extension. Now he's out for a season and the team is much better without him. What do you do with that player? What do you do with that type of player if you don't get a window without them to see what the team could otherwise look like? Like if a player like Vuc comes along who stays healthy enough long enough to burrow their way into the focus of the offense? I feel like that might be your concern with Anthony, too. Him putting up numbers on a tanking team and playing with bad habits isn't that gross of an offense, but if he overstays his welcome and continues doing that at the expense of other players taking better shots/making smarter decisions then, yeah, we'll have a problem.

I really think it's too early to worry right now, though. Team dynamics will likely shift a lot over the coming years as players come into their own. In Cole's defense, he is improving over time, too. One thing I'd love Mosley to kick out of him is his rebounding. Cole gives up on defense to go and grab rebounds and leaves the perimeter wide open all the time. He needs to focus his energy on sticking with his man instead of going for stats. Find a stat for good defense on the perimeter and he could probably find a way to apply himself to that, haha.

Yes. That's my concern and that was my frustration with the Vuc-centric era. Our front office hasn't really demonstrated a cutthroat nature about them. They have been very player friendly thus far. Even when they broke up the core at the deadline last year, they did so with the approval (or at the request) of those players. They handed out very friendly contracts to Isaac and Fultz that weren't really warranted given their situations. I'm not sure Weltman has it in him to play hardball.

Stylistically, Cole and DSJ are/were very similar. Both players like to have the ball in their hands and like to create for themselves. They have similar builds and athleticism. Both are highly skilled. They are limited in the same ways. Neither one has much of an idea how to play without the ball in their hands and they both just kind of stand around until they get an opportunity to flash back to the guy with the ball to try their luck again. Both should also be much better than they are at the defensive end.

The thing with DSJ though, is that he was his own worst enemy after Dallas acquired Doncic and took the ball away from him. Dallas wanted to recoup some of the value they invested in him, but he feigned injury and left the team. No team wants to deal with that. There are only 30 franchises. There are only so many opportunities for young players to carve out their place. If you aren't drafted near the top of the draft, it's all the more difficult.

I'm not arguing that Cole Anthony would've behaved that way in that situation. I couldn't possibly know that. I was responding to a specific question and an obvious answer was DSJ. There is an alternate universe where DSJ is what Cole is right now. He just didn't luck into the best situation. Dallas' luck was DSJ's misfortune.

Obviously, we want Anthony to improve his shortcomings, but there aren't many guys that change their nature. Brook Lopez? Buck Williams? Ron Harper? Sam Perkins? I think those guys all did it out of necessity to prolong their careers. When you say that someone needs the ball in their hands to be effective, you are implying one of two things: said player really can't shoot -or- said player has no idea how to play organized basketball.

I liked what we did at the outset last night. The first couple possessions were run to get Wagner involved in the offense from the get-go, so I'm sure that Mosley is on top of this. I still don't understand why Hampton is running the second unit, especially when Wagner is on the floor with him. Hampton isn't a PG and he never will be.

Interesting to read the story in the news ticker on RealGM today about that exact dynamic.

I wonder what Mosley was able to take from all of that and how he can apply it to this team? I’d assume first thing would be to not alienate Anthony and put him in the doghouse.

Yeah. It’s what you want from your coach. As much as I loathe watching Anthony play, there is no question that his value as an asset and his development are enhanced by Mosley’s methods versus that of someone like Clifford, Skiles, or Carlisle. You can pretty safely make that assertion for most of our young guys.

It was an interesting article. It reads like a hit piece on Carlisle, but it doesn’t provide any new evidence excepting Carlisle’s desire to dump DSJ well before Doncic was ever acquired and his preference for Mitchell, neither of which make him look bad in retrospect. We knew DSJ revolted because he was being shopped. We knew about the Mejri incident. We knew about the Voulgaris incident. We knew about Doncic’s tantrum when he was yanked after picking up his third foul. We knew Doncic wanted Carlisle gone. You wonder what the source was and why they chose to feed this now, because the article really only makes it look like their issues were about Doncic and his disdain for some of the staff. There may very well be some damning evidence against Carlisle, but we haven’t heard it.